ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[wondering25]

This post, and numerous others both before and after, really make me shake my head. I mean no offence to anyone on this forum but essentially that's what we are - a forum of people from across the world with a strong interest in the subject of missing people. We all care in one way or another and WS has had some successes.

What we are not, is Law Enforcement. This sheriff doesn't have to tell us a thing pertinent to the investigation. He can lie to suspects / witnesses / the media / us all he likes.

He owes nothing to people not involved directly in the investigation.

His duty is to ensure that this investigation is handled to the best of LE's ability with any & all resources available to him.

If it comes out at a later date that he messed something up that jeopardised the case then I will sing a different tune. Until then he is the man in charge and he can lie / mislead me (& the rest of the world) as much as necessary if it helps strengthen a case against the perpetrator.

MOO

I dont think commenting on what we know and how we think LE has presented things or the stories that are out there has anything to do with LE's need to inform us. However, in a democratic society, we pay for our police and law enforcement officers and they are duty bound to ensure that we, the public, are being kept safe from issues that arise. As a free nation, we have a right to question. Yes, essentially amateur sleuths are just participating in a parlor game. I would shudder to think, however, what LE would/could be like if they were not answerable to " we the people".

Anything that has been in the news so far from this case has been inconsistent, ruled out or bereft of any substance.

i take issue with the statement that the sheriff doesnt have to tell us a thing.. For example.. we dont know if there is a crazed abductor lurking in the shadows.. it is his obligation to allay fears or raise awareness. Investigative reporting would fill in some gaps here, imo. Sure isnt any of that going on. IMO.

My right to question why the FBI wasnt called in sooner..or to question anything else. GOD FORBID we let the police go unchallenged. That is the beginning of a loss of our freedoms and a real stain on the justice system. MOO

I am sure that LE thinks "concerned citizens" can be a real PITA. OH well...

Anything I write is just my opinion

 

[ILOKAL]

I dont think commenting on what we know and how we think LE has presented things or the stories that are out there has anything to do with LE's need to inform us. However, in a democratic society, we pay for our police and law enforcement officers and they are duty bound to ensure that we, the public, are being kept safe from issues that arise. As a free nation, we have a right to question. Yes, essentially amateur sleuths are just participating in a parlor game. I would shudder to think, however, what LE would/could be like if they were not answerable to " we the people".

Anything that has been in the news so far from this case has been inconsistent, ruled out or bereft of any substance.

i take issue with the statement that the sheriff doesnt have to tell us a thing.. For example.. we dont know if there is a crazed abductor lurking in the shadows.. it is his obligation to allay fears or raise awareness. Investigative reporting would fill in some gaps here, imo. Sure isnt any of that going on. IMO.

My right to question why the FBI wasnt called in sooner..or to question anything else. GOD FORBID we let the police go unchallenged. That is the beginning of a loss of our freedoms and a real stain on the justice system. MOO

I am sure that LE thinks "concerned citizens" can be a real PITA. OH well...

Anything I write is just my opinion

So very well expressed. Thank you for putting MY thoughts (along with yours) out there on behalf of "We the People".

 

[Alii]

To purple pixie,
He doesn't have to tell us a God damn thing? He can lie to the media if it strengthens a case? All he likes? What? I don't think so. It's nice to know that you'll sing a different tune if it turns out he messed something up. (What tune? Don't worry be happy?) Would you be endorsing LE lies if YOU were a suspect? Yeah, nah, not so much methinks. IMO

 

[neesaki]

This post, and numerous others both before and after, really make me shake my head. I mean no offence to anyone on this forum but essentially that's what we are - a forum of people from across the world with a strong interest in the subject of missing people. We all care in one way or another and WS has had some successes.

What we are not, is Law Enforcement. This sheriff doesn't have to tell us a thing pertinent to the investigation. He can lie to suspects / witnesses / the media / us all he likes.

He owes nothing to people not involved directly in the investigation.

His duty is to ensure that this investigation is handled to the best of LE's ability with any & all resources available to him.

If it comes out at a later date that he messed something up that jeopardised the case then I will sing a different tune. Until then he is the man in charge and he can lie / mislead me (& the rest of the world) as much as necessary if it helps strengthen a case against the perpetrator.

MOO

:thud: No telling, no oweing, so no answering to anyone either, right? Whoa, that hits me as disturbingly Orwellian. We can all be thankful though that we do not live in a Police State. Here, in the US of A, LE is still a Public Servant. Yes, lying to or misleading suspects is sometimes the case, though morally questionable IMO. Yes, there is information that cannot be divulged to the public or anyone during the investigation. But if it's something too sensitive that can't be revealed there are other options that actually foster trust and confidence, including but not limited to, "no comment" , "can't address that" , "can't discuss that". JMO

 

[kammiemc]

This post, and numerous others both before and after, really make me shake my head. I mean no offence to anyone on this forum but essentially that's what we are - a forum of people from across the world with a strong interest in the subject of missing people. We all care in one way or another and WS has had some successes.

What we are not, is Law Enforcement. This sheriff doesn't have to tell us a thing pertinent to the investigation. He can lie to suspects / witnesses / the media / us all he likes.

He owes nothing to people not involved directly in the investigation.

His duty is to ensure that this investigation is handled to the best of LE's ability with any & all resources available to him.

If it comes out at a later date that he messed something up that jeopardised the case then I will sing a different tune. Until then he is the man in charge and he can lie / mislead me (& the rest of the world) as much as necessary if it helps strengthen a case against the perpetrator.

MOO

I could not agree you with more. The sheriff actually has NOT contradicted himself. The case is evolving, AS INVESTIGATIONS DO. He has barely spoken at all, and he had done so carefully, respectfully and gently. He has not made irresponsible insinuations and allegations. (I could see why people would be freaking if that were the case.)

If he has handled this search so poorly, why wouldn't the family be screaming about it instead of praising the search efforts to high heavens?

I think some people are confusing statements from different people and attributing them all to the sheriff. And I think when things get that accusatory it might be time to provide some links to ensure the accusations are accurate.

Does anyone really think the sheriff is sociopath in disguise as LE? And that he wakes up every morning trying to think how he can pull the wool over The eyes of American taxpayers?

WHY not be equally as disgusted at the FBI for not providing full transparency and answers to the public about all the search dates, the money spent, etc? It's a shared case now.

OR...maybe trust that they know how to do their jobs and have far more info than people totally outside the case.

It just makes no sense.

I've shaken my head so hard it feels like it's about to come off my body.


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[ILOKAL]

:thud: No telling, no oweing, so no answering to anyone either, right? Whoa, that hits me as disturbingly Orwellian. We can all be thankful though that we do not live in a Police State. Here, in the US of A, LE is still a Public Servant. Yes, lying to or misleading suspects is sometimes the case, though morally questionable IMO. Yes, there is information that cannot be divulged to the public or anyone during the investigation. But if it's something too sensitive that can't be revealed there are other options that actually foster trust and confidence, including but not limited to, "no comment" , "can't address that" , "can't discuss that". JMO

Here's the link to the Sheriff of Lemhi County. It gives an overview of the sheriff's job and responsibilities:

http://lemhicountyidaho.org/Sheriffs Office.htm

 

[kammiemc]

:thud: No telling, no oweing, so no answering to anyone either, right? Whoa, that hits me as disturbingly Orwellian. We can all be thankful though that we do not live in a Police State. Here, in the US of A, LE is still a Public Servant. Yes, lying to or misleading suspects is sometimes the case, though morally questionable IMO. Yes, there is information that cannot be divulged to the public or anyone during the investigation. But if it's something too sensitive that can't be revealed there are other options that actually foster trust and confidence, including but not limited to, "no comment" , "can't address that" , "can't discuss that". JMO

What exactly did he lie about? What is an example of at least one contradiction or one way that he misled viewers (not even purposefully, let's just go with misled in general). And link please.


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[bessie]

I think some people are confusing statements from different people and attributing them all to the sheriff for the satisfaction of vilifying him. And I think when things get that accusatory it might be time to provide some links to ensure the accusations are accurate.

(rsbm)

^^^THIS^^^

Whether it's erroneously attributing a statement to the sheriff, the parents, or the P.I., it's been a problem in these threads since the beginning. Sometimes it occurs as an honest mistake, often it's quite by design.

Yeah, I've done my share of head shaking -- no, make that head banging.

 

[ILOKAL]

The family praised the search efforts on Day Three of their little boy's disappearance. They have since enlisted the help of a PI.

 

[neesaki]

What exactly did he lie about? What is an example of at least one contradiction or one way that he misled viewers (not even purposefully, let's just go with misled in general). And link please.


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I didn't accuse anyone of lying, memories of the telephone game, LOL. Go back and read it in context, I was responding to puplepixils post that it was perfectly fine for LE to lie to the public. TIA

 

[kammiemc]

(rsbm)

^^^THIS^^^

Whether it's erroneously attributing a statement to the sheriff, the parents, or the P.I., it's been a problem in these threads since the beginning. Sometimes it ocurs as an honest mistake, often it's quite by design.

Yeah, I've done my share of head shaking -- no, make that head banging.

I think we all get something in our minds at one point or another and so we look for (even conjure) evidence to support it, and it's not always accurate (I am not innocent in that.) But because this sheriff is under such attack for things that I don't think are based on facts, I would just love for those attacking him to be able to support their assertions. I would be less likely to pull out my hair.


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[kammiemc]

I didn't accuse anyone of lying, memories of the telephone game, LOL. Go back and read it in context, I was responding to puplepixils post that it was perfectly fine for LE to lie to the public. TIA

Okay. Then a general request to anyone accusing him of lying, contradicting himself or misleading taxpayers, what exactly are you talking about? He has only spoken or been reported on a few times. It can't be too hard to show A vs B, etc.


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[ReadySet]

This post, and numerous others both before and after, really make me shake my head. I mean no offence to anyone on this forum but essentially that's what we are - a forum of people from across the world with a strong interest in the subject of missing people. We all care in one way or another and WS has had some successes.

What we are not, is Law Enforcement. This sheriff doesn't have to tell us a thing pertinent to the investigation. He can lie to suspects / witnesses / the media / us all he likes.

He owes nothing to people not involved directly in the investigation.

His duty is to ensure that this investigation is handled to the best of LE's ability with any & all resources available to him.

If it comes out at a later date that he messed something up that jeopardised the case then I will sing a different tune. Until then he is the man in charge and he can lie / mislead me (& the rest of the world) as much as necessary if it helps strengthen a case against the perpetrator.

MOO

Thank you is not enough. Excellent.

 

[Alii]

The sheriff is not under attack. Purple pixie's comment that the sheriff can lie all he wants to whoever he wants, any time he wants, to strengthen a case, is under attack.

 

[bessie]

I think we all get something in our minds at one point or another and so we look for (even conjure) evidence to support it, and it's not always accurate (I am not innocent in that.) But because this sheriff is under such attack for things that I don't think are based on facts, I would just love for those attacking him to be able to support their assertions. I would be less likely to pull out my hair.


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I feel similarly about the parents. But honestly, the standard should be the same across the board, even higher when you're making accusations against the parents of a missing child.

 

[kammiemc]

The sheriff is not under attack. Purple pixie's comment that the sheriff can lie all he wants to whoever he wants, any time he wants, to strengthen a case, is under attack.

I disagree. If you go back and read all the posts from the past couple days (and even prior), the sheriff is being accused of specific things that are not based on fact. I doubt he would care as he has bigger fish to fry. He probably would just shakes head, too.


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[ReadySet]

I could not agree you with more. The sheriff actually has NOT contradicted himself. The case is evolving, AS INVESTIGATIONS DO. He has barely spoken at all, and he had done so carefully, respectfully and gently. He has not made irresponsible insinuations and allegations. (I could see why people would be freaking if that were the case.)

If he has handled this search so poorly, why wouldn't the family be screaming about it instead of praising the search efforts to high heavens?

I think some people are confusing statements from different people and attributing them all to the sheriff. And I think when things get that accusatory it might be time to provide some links to ensure the accusations are accurate.

Does anyone really think the sheriff is sociopath in disguise as LE? And that he wakes up every morning trying to think how he can pull the wool over The eyes of American taxpayers?

WHY not be equally as disgusted at the FBI for not providing full transparency and answers to the public about all the search dates, the money spent, etc? It's a shared case now.

OR...maybe trust that they know how to do their jobs and have far more info than people totally outside the case.

It just makes no sense.

I've shaken my head so hard it feels like it's about to come off my body.


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This ^ Well said

 

[kammiemc]

I feel similarly about the parents. But honestly, the standard should be the same across the board, even higher when you're making accusations against the parents of a missing child.

I totally agree that it should be higher when making accusations against parents (or family, poor GGP). And clearly it is higher for victims, as it is part of TOS and results in vaca's. And, heck, I've even seen head scratching result in an eruption of group self-monitoring.

He was on the frontline doing his best and for that he has my respect and empathy. I bet this case haunts the sheriff and will forever and all he wants is for that little boy to be found or for justice to be served if the case goes that direction. Neither may happen.


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[pepelepolecat]

To purple pixie,
He doesn't have to tell us a God damn thing? He can lie to the media if it strengthens a case? All he likes? What? I don't think so. It's nice to know that you'll sing a different tune if it turns out he messed something up. (What tune? Don't worry be happy?) Would you be endorsing LE lies if YOU were a suspect? Yeah, nah, not so much methinks. IMO

Police have every right to lie to suspects.

"The police, for example, may not use torture techniques, threats, drugging, or inhumane treatment during an interrogation. The police, however, can use lying, trickery, and other types of non-coercive methods to obtain a confession from a suspect."

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/faqs-police-interrogations.html#sthash.fDSHyZZ6.dpuf

I would prefer that LE would simply issue a "no comment" as opposed to lying to the public, but I also realize that lying can play a role in seeing justice done. I don't think there's a pat answer or easy solution to this issue. I'd expect each officer would be held accountable for his/her actions in every case and the outcome of those actions, good or bad.

 

[Eileen730]

Wouldn't u all like to hear a step by step account of what happened.

Everything (for me anyway) Is very VAGUE.

Something like.

All 5 of us were sitting together at camp in chairs sipping ice teas and Deorr was running around.
MOM and DAD ask GGP to watch little guy while they take a walk GGP says fine and Deorr is still right there playing in the dirt. MOM and DAD walk off and GGP does what?
.

Not We thought GGP was watching him and
GGP thought they were watching him.

I think this is exactly why LE has not taken these 4 ppl off his list.

This would be exactly why they needed a re-enactment