ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[KYPastTracker]

I am left wondering how the creepy man could have been staring at little Deorr if he (Deorr) wasn't in the store ?

I asked the same thing. Why are they doing a sketch then? Just in case?

 

[desert-blue]

Now I am really confused! Does that also mean no one saw them buy French fries for Deorr Jr at the store? Wouldn't the clerk remember them? Especially if a creepy old man was staring at him in the store? Or did the creep in the jeep stare outside the store? Or was that at a different store? But if so, why didn't the sheriff mention that? Why is LE doing a sketch then? I am so confused! What am I missing? I just woke up so maybe I'm not thinking clearly. Yeah..... That must be it! Maybe I'm dreaming! LOL!

I'm with you on all this - no idea how a man could be staring at the child if the child wasn't in the store. I guess we are to assume the man was staring at Deorr while he was in the back of the truck at the store (not IN the store)? From the statements, I assumed the child was in the store. Weird.

Kunz's mother recalls seeing the man at a store in Leadore the morning of her son's disappearance. http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/2015/09/15/deorr-kunz-missing-lead/72298848/

“When [the family] went into town the morning after they arrived, they picked a few groceries up and bought some French fries for DeOrr Jr.,” Vilt said. “There was a man who was staring at DeOrr and this made Jessica feel kind of eerie. I’m looking into it.”http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/kunz-family-investigator-everything-points-to-an-abduction/

 

[KYPastTracker]

Well, I am back to two theories. One of them being the fast moving mountain lion.

On the other one my lips are zipped.

 

[desert-blue]

The parents really wanted that store sighting to be them. They put a lot of emphasis on saying they went "as a family." No statement from GGP. Now the sheriff seems to be questioning whether Deorr was at the store.

 

[wondering25]

Thanks for the new link desert-blue, especially the video. It's the first time I've seen Sheriff Bowerman speaking candidly about the missing facts. It really sounds like he can't positively place the Deorr Jr. at the Leadore store or the camp ground. This is most concerning.

"Then later that evening we had a helicopter up with a FLIR, which is a heat seeking source. They identified every animal that was in the region and if that child was in the that 3-mile radius, we would have found him," said Bowerman."

I never thought Deorr made it back from the trip to the store in Leadore. That has been my position from the beginning. I always thought that when IR was questioned by the reporter and his flat affect suddenly perked up when IR said "have you talked to grandpa"..he was really saying..grandpa will tell you the baby wasnt there in the afternoon either.. of course this is just my impression..

That whole remark about "we went to the store as a family" by DK sounded contrived. IMO

The PI now is also missing. Quite frankly, I think the guy tried..and in fairness he brought some attention to the case.. the creep in the jeep, the reenactment and now the there is a documentary being done. His involvement didnt hurt, imo.

Anything i write is just my opinion

 

[neesaki]

What?? Am I in trouble? :s

Eta wait, this one posted? Was that just a glitch?

That happened to me a while back, Rayemonde. I know how you feel, LOL, but apparently it's just a glitch.

 

[Arnie M]

Here's a short list I came up with after a quick google search.

August 2001 - Westmoreland County, PA

Officer, K-9 solve missing woman mystery
Xato cost $3,500, and his training cost an equal amount. Considering equipment and other expenses, a police force spends about $12,500 to put a K-9 officer and dog on patrol.

Along with drug sniffing and other duties, Xato was specially trained to find missing people.
When Yonek and Xato arrived at the missing woman's home, Yonek gave the dog a pair of the missing woman's socks to sniff, and then attached the dog's work collar.

'It's amazing. I get that collar out and it's like a lightbulb goes off in his head and he goes to work,' Yonek said.
The officer then attached the dog's 15-foot tracking leash, gave a command for tracking and searching, and Xato took off - sniffing asphalt and grass as he went.

It took less than five minutes for the dog to find the woman at a construction site on a dirt road, not far from her home.

'She was standing there, disoriented,' Yonek said. 'I started talking to her, saying 'You're all right,' just talking softly, and she started to catch on.'
http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_51411.html#axzz3o8ahSfTD

February 2013 - Macomb County, MI

Deputy’s Tracking Dog Finds Missing Woman with Alzheimer’s
http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2013/02/deputys-tracking-dog-finds-missing-woman-with-alzheimers/

August 2013 - Polk County, IA

The missing Ankeny woman, Louise G was found Thursday night with the assistance of a tracking dog.
http://whotv.com/2013/08/08/missing-person-ankeny-police-seek-woman-2/

March 2014 - Anderson County, SC

More than 30 people were called in to search for the teen and a bloodhound named Dixie was able to find the girl about a hour later.
http://www.cleveland19.com/story/24800342/tracking-dog-praised-for-finding-missing-teen

July 2014 - Portland, ME

Ruth Brennan, 77, who has dementia, is reunited with relatives after a rescue dog finds her in dense woods in Waterford.
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/07/09/missing-south-portland-woman-found-alive-after-two-day-search/

November 2014 - Tawas, MI

Missing Tawas City girl, 2, found in woods by dog
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/11/06/missing-girl-tawas-michigan/18584645/

May 2015 - Apex, NC

K9 call of duty: NC police dog saves missing woman first week on the job
http://myfox8.com/2015/05/24/k9-cal...og-saves-missing-woman-first-week-on-the-job/

August 2015 - Cass County, MI

Missing woman found by police dog
http://www.heraldpalladium.com/news...cle_3a0536f3-c1bd-54aa-bd57-d303bcfefc0c.html

Sept 2015 - Chester County, NC

After Mayfield found her clothes, tracking dogs used their scent to find Lindsey's body behind a neighbor's shed about three hours later.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/deputies-investigating-chester-co-womans-suspiciou/nnd7d/

Thanks for the list Bessie , like I said , the success list is always very short compared to the long list of searches using dogs that found nothing , the overall success ratio is very slender . (We expect too much)

In one (missing woman) case LE sealed off the whole neighborhood , nobody could come and go from their houses , and it took 3 hours for dogs to find her next door behind her neighbors shed ,

Another case a woman was found using an "air scent dog" .... the dog was placed downwind of a forest and was trained to detect the scent of ANY human , not the scent of the missing person themselves , if there were more than one person there it would not have worked.

A teenage girl runs from her family into the woods and a bloodhound was able to track her , those are the easiest , they knew where she entered the trees and the dog just followed , same as when criminals jump out of a car and run , the dog can stay on track.

My point all along was that tracking dogs in a DeOrr Kunz situation do not work very well , the child had been there since the day before , his scent would be all over the place already , how does the dog know who to search for ? Let him sniff DeOrr's favorite blanket , but the scent of the parents is on the blanket too , plus all the food and drink spilled on the blanket , and how would that compare to the scent of the sole of the boys cowboy boot , we are expecting the impossible from the dog.

..............................

Now I make my point , dog owners and K-9 handlers are very "proud" of their dog (fine) , but if you interview them about the ratio of searches and successes they get fidgety , and evasive , and change the subject , and finally admit there are so many variables that come into play it is "hard to give a precise answer" .... here is a good example from the pros
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?125709-K9-SAR-Questions-amp-Answers-Ask-the-Pros!

 

[neesaki]

Now I am really confused! Does that also mean no one saw them buy French fries for Deorr Jr at the store? Wouldn't the clerk remember them? Especially if a creepy old man was staring at him in the store? Or did the creep in the jeep stare outside the store? Or was that at a different store? But if so, why didn't the sheriff mention that? Why is LE doing a sketch then? I am so confused! What am I missing? I just woke up so maybe I'm not thinking clearly. Yeah..... That must be it! Maybe I'm dreaming! LOL!

Don't feel alone, I didn't think things could become even more unclear, but now they're about as clear as mud to me. I did go back and listen to the PI interview, he states "at the store", not "in the store". Now Sheriff Bowerman is saying there's no solid evidence that little Deorr was at the store at all.

But it was my understanding that they had taken little Deorr inside the store. Which I thought daddy Deorr was indicating in the interview, when they were talking about clearing up the alleged siting of the man buying candy for the filthy, bawling baby. He stated, no, that was from when they went down to the store as a family, he drives a black truck, etc., the clerk was just mistaken about the time. It's in the video, between the 7:00 and 8:00 minute mark. With all these contradictions, just call me
[video]http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/[/video]

 

[Dee10]

A receipt and cashier proves the parents trip to the only convenience store in town, but was the toddler with his mother and father?\


"Somebody said they thought they saw a child in the vehicle while they fueled up, but they're not positive," Bowerman said.

WOW just WOW! Did they get fuel twice???


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2
[QUOTE]

Nate Eaton:
“Did they stop any other places on their way up to Leadore?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
”appears” to shake his head no but says nothing.

Deputy Penner:
“Yeah. They stopped to get diesel.[/QUOTE]

 

[ClaireNC]

All I can say is that I was truly on the fence and I definitely fell off on the wrong side.

 

[Mickshawn]

The parents really wanted that store sighting to be them. They put a lot of emphasis on saying they went "as a family." No statement from GGP. Now the sheriff seems to be questioning whether Deorr was at the store.

Hearing from GGP would be really key.....Was little DeOrr hanging with him by the campfire, as stated by the parents after they returned from the store, or wasn't he? Just even a simple yes or no!

 

[ClaireNC]

WOW just WOW! Did they get fuel twice???
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2
[QUOTE]

Nate Eaton:
“Did they stop any other places on their way up to Leadore?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
”appears” to shake his head no but says nothing.

Deputy Penner:
“Yeah. They stopped to get diesel.

A receipt and cashier proves the parents trip to the only convenience store in town, but was the toddler with his mother and father?\

"Somebody said they thought they saw a child in the vehicle while they fueled up, but they're not positive," Bowerman said.

Bowerman could be saying that the "Somebody" was the one getting fuel, when they thought they saw a child in a truck. I thought we determined that the store in Leadore did not sell diesel, so DK could not have gotten fuel in town.

 

[renarde]

Maybe "they" refers to the possible witness who was fueling up (not the Kunz family).

I don't think the Stage Stop has diesel anyway.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Am I right that there have been zero positive/confirmed sightings of Deorr on the way to or at the campsite, aside from what his parents have said? Did either IR and GGP say he'd been there? There seems to be a lot of confusion about whether people at gas stations and shops saw him for definite. And no trails picked up by dogs.

So who WAS the last person to see Deorr, apart from his mom and dad??

 

[desert-blue]

Did DK and JM really did hear a rumor about the clerk seeing a man with a filthy, bawling baby driving a black truck? If so, who told them that? Or, did they just create the rumor to make folks think Deorr was at the store? It would be interesting to know if the clerk at the store actually reported seeing a man and baby (and it turned out to not be Deorr) or if the whole thing was made up? Those are kind of the only two options, right? Either it wasn't Deorr or it didn't happen at all?

 

[desert-blue]

Hearing from GGP would be really key.....Was little DeOrr hanging with him by the campfire, as stated by the parents after they returned from the store, or wasn't he? Just even a simple yes or no!

I have always wondered why we have never heard a word from GGP.... I'm thinking the reason is significant, as in the answer to your question is "no."

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Here's a short list I came up with after a quick google search.

August 2001 - Westmoreland County, PA

Officer, K-9 solve missing woman mystery
Xato cost $3,500, and his training cost an equal amount. Considering equipment and other expenses, a police force spends about $12,500 to put a K-9 officer and dog on patrol.

Along with drug sniffing and other duties, Xato was specially trained to find missing people.
When Yonek and Xato arrived at the missing woman's home, Yonek gave the dog a pair of the missing woman's socks to sniff, and then attached the dog's work collar.

'It's amazing. I get that collar out and it's like a lightbulb goes off in his head and he goes to work,' Yonek said.
The officer then attached the dog's 15-foot tracking leash, gave a command for tracking and searching, and Xato took off - sniffing asphalt and grass as he went.

It took less than five minutes for the dog to find the woman at a construction site on a dirt road, not far from her home.

'She was standing there, disoriented,' Yonek said. 'I started talking to her, saying 'You're all right,' just talking softly, and she started to catch on.'
http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_51411.html#axzz3o8ahSfTD

February 2013 - Macomb County, MI

Deputy’s Tracking Dog Finds Missing Woman with Alzheimer’s
http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2013/02/deputys-tracking-dog-finds-missing-woman-with-alzheimers/

August 2013 - Polk County, IA

The missing Ankeny woman, Louise G was found Thursday night with the assistance of a tracking dog.
http://whotv.com/2013/08/08/missing-person-ankeny-police-seek-woman-2/

March 2014 - Anderson County, SC

More than 30 people were called in to search for the teen and a bloodhound named Dixie was able to find the girl about a hour later.
http://www.cleveland19.com/story/24800342/tracking-dog-praised-for-finding-missing-teen

July 2014 - Portland, ME

Ruth Brennan, 77, who has dementia, is reunited with relatives after a rescue dog finds her in dense woods in Waterford.
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/07/09/missing-south-portland-woman-found-alive-after-two-day-search/

November 2014 - Tawas, MI

Missing Tawas City girl, 2, found in woods by dog
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/11/06/missing-girl-tawas-michigan/18584645/

May 2015 - Apex, NC

K9 call of duty: NC police dog saves missing woman first week on the job
http://myfox8.com/2015/05/24/k9-cal...og-saves-missing-woman-first-week-on-the-job/

August 2015 - Cass County, MI

Missing woman found by police dog
http://www.heraldpalladium.com/news...cle_3a0536f3-c1bd-54aa-bd57-d303bcfefc0c.html

Sept 2015 - Chester County, NC

After Mayfield found her clothes, tracking dogs used their scent to find Lindsey's body behind a neighbor's shed about three hours later.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/deputies-investigating-chester-co-womans-suspiciou/nnd7d/

Thank you,Bessie!:tyou:

IMO... It seems on WS the cases that are followed are those with exceptional challenges... Not cut-and-dried investigations...

therefore... The search dogs have the same exceptional challenges as the LE/searchers/etc....

I feel the search dogs should be given credit for the hard work they do...

And as your list suggests... The achievements of these dogs are often not brought out strongly in the media in the cases we follow...

:wolf: :heartbeat:

All... IMO...

 

[Mickshawn]

Did DK and JM really did hear a rumor about the clerk seeing a man with a filthy, bawling baby driving a black truck? If so, who told them that? Or, did they just create the rumor to make folks think Deorr was at the store? It would be interesting to know if the clerk at the store actually reported seeing a man and baby (and it turned out to not be Deorr) or if the whole thing was made up? Those are kind of the only two options, right? Either it wasn't Deorr or it didn't happen at all?

We've never gotten any confirmation from the said clerk on this, right? How hard would it be to confirm this with the clerk?

 

[Mountaingazer]

Thank you,Bessie!:tyou:

IMO... It seems on WS the cases that are followed are those with exceptional challenges... Not cut-and-dried investigations...

therefore... The search dogs have the same exceptional challenges as the LE/searchers/etc....

I feel the search dogs should be given credit for the hard work they do...

And as your list suggests... The achievements of these dogs are often not brought out strongly in the media in the cases we follow...

:wolf: [emoji813]beat:

All... IMO...

I agree! Dogs are just one tool in the toolbox, sometimes they work sometimes they don't. But if my child were missing I would want LE to use every the tool they have!

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

WOW just WOW! Did they get fuel twice???


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2
[QUOTE]

Nate Eaton:
“Did they stop any other places on their way up to Leadore?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
”appears” to shake his head no but says nothing.

Deputy Penner:
“Yeah. They stopped to get diesel.

I still ain't sure if it was meant as up to Leadore from camp Fri morning or up to Leadore from IF Thurs evening? So many questions asked and questions answered have been so unclear in this case.

Two stops for diesel one in/near IF on Thurs and one in/near Leadore Fri would raise questions even with the old low MPG truck, though.