ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[Angiebla]

My niece who just turned three a couple days ago would throw a fit and would wake up as soon as the car stopped. If left alone, I am sure she would be screaming her head off which would draw attention for sure. In fact the whole of tiny little Leadore would hear her if that was the case! But she would NEVER be left alone anyway.

Yeah if my nephew was awake in the car he would be screaming. I think he may have been sleeping in the car.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Question: Have searches been confined to the 2.5-3 square miles of Timber Creek campground only? i.e. no other campgrounds around the Leadore area have been checked/searched for example?

Just thinking out loud....

 

[KYPastTracker]

:scared:Trying to figure out how both of the following events could simultaneously be true and to fit them into known facts from LE and from info from PI, but am having difficulty. Someone please correct if I have facts wrong. I don't see how both could be true. Especially if only one trip to store was made.

1. Bawling filthy Deorr Jr seen with Deorr Sr in store buying candy bar. ETA just to be clear as others pointed out this is rumor. stated by Deorr Sr in interview that clerk saw a man with a filthy bawling toddler matching Deorr Jrs description. But IMO, Deorr Sr seemed to indicate it was him just not at the time clerk said. Also no confirmation of this sighting from LE.

2. Mom observes creepy old man staring at Deorr Jr. Deorr Sr could have stayed in the truck while Mom goes into store to buy feminine products with Deorr Jr. She buys French fries and creepy staring man is inside the store. Thus Deorr Sr doesn't see creepy guy but Mom does. Deorr Sr observes black Rubicon outside. Clerk would have to not have seen Deorr Jr, though, in that case.

So, do we throw out #1? They both can't be true, right?

But wait.... in the second instance that would have to mean the witness who may have seen the toddler in the truck was wrong.... Which might mean no Deorr Jr seen at the store by independent witness....aaarrrggghhh.....Just trying to make sense of this. Probably not helping.......

ETA and if we throw out the first instance, that means....wait...Did Deorr Sr actually say that he was the one buying the candy bar?

 

[pepelepolecat]

Wouldn't have left him alone, but people do leave toddlers in cars while they run in for an errand. (And they get in trouble for it!)

I guess DeOrr could have gotten out of the car without any clerk or customer seeing him. Although it seems like the clerk would remember seeing him in the store if she remembered one or both of the parents. (Toddlers usually make themselves known. And DeOrr is super-extra cute.)

I don't think there is a any way for someone to say for sure that he WASN'T at the store or in the truck unless there is video pointing at the door and parking lot. It's hard to prove a negative.

At least we now know the fries were bought at the Stage Shop. It's hard for me to see if the Stage Shop has seating out front. Otherwise, fries to go and eaten in the car! (here is a street view link--hope it works)

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6805611,-113.3578514,3a,37.5y,47.53h,82.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjhHlUwOB-NpATtJEqdd1Lg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.680...lUwOB-NpATtJEqdd1Lg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

bbm -- this would have been us, too. We had three little ones at once, so there were times where one was asleep and we didn't want to get all of them up and out to just run in and out of somewhere. So one of us would stay in the van with all three of them while the other one did the run. We might also keep them in the vehicle if one was particularly crabby or not feeling well. Otherwise, all of us would be trekking in and out wherever we went.

 

[giagreen]

Trying to figure out how both of the following events could simultaneously be true and to fit them into known facts from LE and from info from PI, but am having difficulty. Someone please correct if I have facts wrong. I don't see how both could be true. Especially if only one trip to store was made.

1. Bawling filthy Deorr Jr seen with Deorr Sr in store buying candy bar.

2. Mom observes creepy old man staring at Deorr Jr. Deorr Sr could have stayed in the truck while Mom goes into store to buy feminine products with Deorr Jr. She buys French fries and creepy staring man is inside the store. Thus Deorr Sr doesn't see creepy guy but Mom does. Deorr Sr observes black Rubicon outside. Clerk would have to not have seen Deorr Jr, though, in that case.

So, do we throw out #1? They both can't be true, right?

But wait.... in the second instance that would have to mean the witness who may have seen the toddler in the truck was wrong.... Which might mean no Deorr Jr seen at the store by independent witness....aaarrrggghhh.....Just trying to make sense of this. Probably not helping.......

I always thought the clerk said she seen a filthy bawling child with a man not that the man was Deorr sr.
Idk I'm just as confused at this point as anyone els .

 

[Deleted member 718]

WOW just WOW! Did they get fuel twice???


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2
[QUOTE]

Nate Eaton:
“Did they stop any other places on their way up to Leadore?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
”appears” to shake his head no but says nothing.

Deputy Penner:
“Yeah. They stopped to get diesel.

[/QUOTE]

What type of fuel does GGP Walton's truck use? Plus I don't think it's been said what vehicle they took to the store Friday morning.

Just trying to make sense of the latest news. :fence:

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I always thought the clerk said she seen a filthy bawling child with a man not that the man was Deorr sr.
Idk I'm just as confused at this point as anyone els .

I can't keep anything straight any more. My brain hurts while trying to sort it all out.

 

[giagreen]

I can't keep anything straight any more. My brain hurts while trying to sort it all out.

Right!! Lol

 

[KYPastTracker]

I always thought the clerk said she seen a filthy bawling child with a man not that the man was Deorr sr.
Idk I'm just as confused at this point as anyone els .

You are right. But I thought that Deorr Sr indicated that it was him just at the wrong time. IDK either. I think I may just give up on making any sense of this. Because I don't think it ever will.

 

[giagreen]

You are right. But I thought that Deorr Sr indicated that it was him just at the wrong time. IDK either. I think I may just give up on making any sense of this. Because I don't think it ever will.

I'm with ya on the giving up. Lol
I actually did a few days ago and thought I'd give it one more round but I'm lost at this point.

 

[kammiemc]

Two interesting things in going back to watch the PI's video when he talked about learning about the staring man.

1. NE said the PI "just" learned this information about the staring man. This was Aug 11. I can't recall when he started working with the parents, but wonder why this wouldn't have been one of the first things they told him since they believed DeOrr was abducted and this was the only suspicious person they had reportedly mentioned seeing.

2. What Vilt said verbatim in the video is different than what was quoted in the article. What he said in the video definitely makes it seem like a man was staring at DeOrr as the fries were bought for him inside the Stage Stop. IMO, this means that the parents must have told the PI that the toddler was with them in the store. Which is consistent with DK saying they went to the store as a family. (Unless the PI was making stuff up! Which he could have been.)

Here is why I think this and what the differences are:

In the article it said: “When [the family] went into town the morning after they arrived, they picked a few groceries up and bought some French fries for DeOrr Jr.,” Vilt said. “There was a man who was staring at DeOrr and this made Jessica feel kind of eerie. I’m looking into it.”

(That kind of leaves it open as to when and where the staring happened. Mostly because "...bought some fries for DeOrr Jr." was at the end of the sentence and there was break in quote before he stated, "There was a man staring..")

But in the video, he said verbatim: "When they went into town the morning after they arrived to pick a few groceries up, they bought some French fries for DeOrr Jr. and there was a man who was staring at this little boy. And this made Jessica feel kind of eerie that this old man was staring at the boy.”

JMO, why would the PI mention the fries-buying moment at all and connect it with an AND to a man staring if those things didn't happen at the same time or while eating the fries--something having to do with the fries?

It's really neither here nor there except that it sounds like the parents told the PI that DeOrr was with them in the store (or that's at least what the PI thought) and so it's a little weird that the only confirmation the sheriff could get that DeOrr was at the Stage Stop is from someone who thought they saw the toddler in the truck but weren't positive. ???? Would the clerk who sold the parents fries for DeOrr forget seeing the toddler that went missing, even after being prompted by his description and what was purchased by his parents? Doesn't seem likely but anything is possible.

 

[kammiemc]

What type of fuel does GGP Walton's truck use? Plus I don't think it's been said what vehicle they took to the store Friday morning.

Just trying to make sense of the latest news. :fence:[/QUOTE]

I could be wrong, but upon watching the video of the sheriff talking, it very much sounds to me like he was saying that the person was filling up their own car when thought they might have seen DeOrr in the truck , not that the truck he was in was being filled up. Just my take. GGP drove a suburban to the campsite according to JM's mom, his daughter.

 

[katydid23]

Wondering25, you don't think that DeOrr returned from the store to the campground on Friday. Do you think he was there before the trip to the store? If so, then what do you think happened to him between the store and the campsite?

I can not wrap my head around the parents killing him, disposing of his body and then returning to the campsite to prepare for the 'baby is missing' scene, including IR and GGP as witnesses. I can not wrap my head around them just putting him out of the truck and leaving him alone to wander off and die either. And how could there have been a fatal accident, caused by the neglect of the parents, inside the truck while driving?

Further, LE is saying they must go back to square one now that the FBI report is in which tells me that the polys and behavioral analysis support that the parents and 2 witnesses told the truth.

I am sticking with abduction by a human.

One possible scenario that has been mentioned is that MAYBE the family went to town with DeOrr and he fell asleep on the way back to camp. Not wanting to wake him, they let him finish his nap in the truck. He might have been left too long in the heat and passed. So, fearful that they would lose rights to the older kids, they went into cover up mode? Just hypothetical scenario, I am not accusing them.

 

[CarolynV]

I do not have a link and I don't know what thread, but wasn't there a blond lady that did an interview that spoke of Deorr and the french fries?

I had to walk away, because none of it was adding up. If that lady and the store clerk never saw him I think we have a big problem here.

 

[kammiemc]

One possible scenario that has been mentioned is that MAYBE the family went to town with DeOrr and he fell asleep on the way back to camp. Not wanting to wake him, they let him finish his nap in the truck. He might have been left too long in the heat and passed. So, fearful that they would lose rights to the older kids, they went into cover up mode? Just hypothetical scenario, I am not accusing them.

I have thought of this, too. In fact, I think it was discussed here how warm it was that day. If I recall it wasn't hot, just warm. (Like in the 70's.) But cars heat up, especially those with black exteriors. I agree with TeaTime that I can't wrap my head around the parents intentionally killing their little boy. However, I can wrap my head around an accident happening--whether due to any negligence or not--and the parents being so fraught with grief as well as with concern over charges being pressed and any other ramifications on their family, that they panicked and decided it was better to just say he was missing. Again hypothetical, but it would also be in line with the parents trying to point to abduction (and even a potential suspect with the staring man) because it's the only other explanation that could take DeOrr out of the vicinity.
And, honestly, if that could be the case of what happened, how tragic it would be for the parents. Yes, hiding that from LE would be against the law, but what a double burden to carry around for the rest of your life based on a decision made under duress.

 

[Dee10]

That hypothetical scenario would also explain why the blanket, cup & monkey were in the truck instead of around the camp area, when he carries them around everywhere.

 

[ClaireNC]

That hypothetical scenario would also explain why the blanket, cup & monkey were in the truck instead of around the camp area, when he carries them around everywhere.

I don't think anybody ever said where the blanket, cup and monkey were. I think it was assumed they were in the truck based on a comment that Grandpa Kunz said in one of the early interviews, but it has never been confirmed.

ETA: Grandpa Kunz was not at the campground the day little Deorr disappeared.

 

[TxJan1971]

I don't think anybody ever said where the blanket, cup and monkey were. I think it was assumed they were in the truck based on a comment that Grandpa Kunz said in one of the early interviews, but it has never been confirmed.

Found this for now - (note statement comes from DK Sr's father who wasn't camping interview). Still looking for any additional statements out there:

"The blanket was in the truck, so Jessica now has got that blanket and she will not let go of it. She holds it, smells it, loves it," Kunz says. "It's the only attachment she has to that boy right now."
http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks

 

[Mickshawn]

We need confirmation from our clerks:

1) The candy bar clerk

2) The french fry clerk

Did you or did you NOT see little DeOrr when these purchases were made?

I'm sure they can be shown photos of the immediate family and confirm whether they saw them or not...and when.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Has LE actually mentioned/acknowledged the 6PM Friday filthy, bawling child siting? I don't think they have. Sheriff Bowerman may have mentioned hearing a report about it in his interview with NE. I'll have to check.

In the latest video Sheriff Bowerman only talks of a witness that maybe saw Deorr/child in the car. It isn't clear whether that was when the witness was pumping gas or if it was the car the child may have been in. It doesn't sound like the witness is a cashier at one of the shops?