ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[Rayemonde]

True. We have unsophistocated parents, LE that fails to communicate well and a reporter posting happy dances on YouTube because he is having a new baby.

FBI that kind of dropped the ball with their last statement and SM eating them alive.

It can't get any worse.

I don't think the parents are "unsophisticated". I think they seem pretty intelligent and savvy.

 

[ILOKAL]

Mountain lions do not eat clothing. Or they would atleast regurgitate any clothing items.

Cadaver dogs would have found something by now i think.

There are cases that were posted where cloth was found at necropsy. They tear it into strips as they do everything they eat. Three miles is not far at all for a ML to travel so anything and everything could be outside the search area, IMO.

 

[Purplepixii]

It's been a few months now, and maybe the anger is really setting in. Maybe she's ready to strike back.

Grief is one of those things that cannot be imagined until one goes through it, and the pain of losing a child is unlike any other pain. Add to that the lack of closure, the uncertainty, the rumors ... Good for her, I say. Maybe that's what it's going to take: an enraged mother to get the ball rolling properly on this case.

Disclaimer: This should not be read as any kind of criticism re: her previous silence, reticence. It is not.

eta: my opinion only, pure speculation

That's the thing, I too would expect JM to strike back but she isn't. Note that the group isn't the "SM hate group" that had the C&D orders filed against it but another one. JM has been really taking part & answering questions and there has been no ill feelings in that group. Personally I'm glad she's doing this, beats the lack of info we've had to date [emoji4]

 

[ILOKAL]

IF they had anything there would be an arrest. Either for the murder or for something to hold them on. Think Hailey Cummings.

After all this time I don't think they have much of anything. I also don't think the four that were there would be able to fool all of local LE, State LE and the FBI. Really.

I have kind of come full circle on all of this. I now wonder if this is a case of a couple who have lost their child and aren't real savvy on how to negotiate the system.

They were stoned by SM from the very first press conference and it's been downhill from there.

Maybe they don't speak well in front of a camera. Maybe they don't want to go on tv. Maybe they just want their son to come home and have no idea of what they should do to accomplish that.

I hope SM has not done them a HUGE injustice.

Looking at all the pictures of the campgrounds a clue could be anywhere but it's really a needle in a haystack. Maybe somebody will get lucky and find something. Maybe not.

IMO, there's absolutely no question that SM has done them a HUGE injustice! I don't think I ever realized the built up hate some people have and that they use it to cause such unforgivable pain!. How can they sleep at night and then look at themselves in the mirror? It's just mind boggling, to me! In spite of the pain caused, I think they have it in their hearts to forgive . . . . Wow!

 

[ILOKAL]

I was just about to post something similar.

There's a possibility a mountain lion took Deorr. Some people believe the likelihood is next to none, others believe it's possible but unlikely, others think it's probable, and others think it's fact. I believe the non-stop mountain lion info and disagreements are leading away from talking about Deorr's disappearance. There's just nothing left mountain lion-wise to talk about anymore, and I see no purpose. I think we're all pretty "educated" about the animals by now.

I think talking about the creek and the SAR dogs are a lot more relevant to the case. Because we know they (the creek and the SAR dogs) were there. LOL.

I'm open to talking about any possibility except mountain lions at this point. No more beating that dead horse (did the mountain lion get him too?).

I believe that as long as we continue to follow the TOS and the ML is a viable cause of DeOrr's disappearance, it really is quite off-putting when posters try to control what is being discussed. It's so very simple. If the topic is one in which you have no interest, just scroll and roll.

 

[Angiebla]

Not to mention a public who is either unwilling, or unable, to discern fact from gossip, and first hand from second hand statements.

As for the reporting, it's been anything but objective in some instances. But I suppose fueling suspicions with carefully crafted wording has a higher entertainment value, and yields better ratings.

Journalists are pretty much using their articles as click bait. They really don't have the family's best interest at heart.



This isn't aimed at you Bessie; can I ask why it is wrong for the reporter to post a happy vid to YouTube? He has a life outside of this case.

 

[giagreen]

IF they had anything there would be an arrest. Either for the murder or for something to hold them on. Think Hailey Cummings.

After all this time I don't think they have much of anything. I also don't think the four that were there would be able to fool all of local LE, State LE and the FBI. Really.

I have kind of come full circle on all of this. I now wonder if this is a case of a couple who have lost their child and aren't real savvy on how to negotiate the system.

They were stoned by SM from the very first press conference and it's been downhill from there.

Maybe they don't speak well in front of a camera. Maybe they don't want to go on tv. Maybe they just want their son to come home and have no idea of what they should do to accomplish that.

I hope SM has not done them a HUGE injustice.

Looking at all the pictures of the campgrounds a clue could be anywhere but it's really a needle in a haystack. Maybe somebody will get lucky and find something. Maybe not.

I couldn't agree more. I truly believe that its going to be a hunter, hiker, or other campers that find something at some point. It might not even be this year or next. But somewhere out there are two little boots that will be found at some point.

 

[Yvettea]

I couldn't agree more. I truly believe that its going to be a hunter, hiker, or other campers that find something at some point. It might not even be this year or next. But somewhere out there are two little boots that will be found at some point.

Unless DeOrr isn't somewhere out there and never was.

 

[giagreen]

I don't know where I stand on the spectrum of accepting/opposing the mountain lion theory. I don't believe I continue bringing it up; it's something that's possible, but in my mind not probable.

So much more probable is human abduction that it crowds out every other scenario. Remembering any human can be the abductor the potential that someone that knew the child took the child is great. What's not to say someone came into the campground, took DeOrr (this would not alarm the child if he knew them well), someone well known to GGF which would not alarm him and he may not remember after the fact, if he has dementia, no need for luvies if DeOrr is satisfied to leave, dogs are familiar with the person so they don't alert. It would only take a moment and seem as if he had vanished. I'm not suggesting who would have done this because I'm not allowed to and because I have no idea who would do such a thing. I just find it far more likely than a lone Mountain lion.

I would agree with you because I do on most everything you say.
But what strike me is the location. If DeOrr went missing in his backyard then yes I'd think someone took him. But where he went missing is what stands out to me. A child being taken by a true stranger is rare in its self. It happens all the time but its not the number one reason kids go missing.
In that location mother nature is what is the biggest risk to a toddler. Especially a two year old who might have been looking for his parents.

 

[giagreen]

Journalists are pretty much using their articles as click bait. They really don't have the family's best interest at heart.



This isn't aimed at you Bessie; can I ask why it is wrong for the reporter to post a happy vid to YouTube? He has a life outside of this case.

Are you talking about the video Nate did about having another baby?

 

[Rayemonde]

Unless DeOrr isn't somewhere out there and never was.

But IR saw him there. I can't imagine why he would lie about that.

How do you know that they hadn't set up camp before they went to the store?
And I don't find it odd at all that buying feminine hygiene products could be a pressing need.

 

[Yvettea]

But IR saw him there. I can't imagine why he would lie about that.

How do you know that they hadn't set up camp before they went to the store?
And I don't find it odd at all that buying feminine hygiene products could be a pressing need.

no, I'm not saying DeOrr was never at the campsite. what I am saying is his boots will not be found out there if he never wandered or was carried off.

 

[kammiemc]

I know, the location really stands out to me too. One of the first things that stood out to me was taking that bumpy ride to the campground late at night then making the trip back to the convenience store first thing the next morning. They hadn't even set up camp.

I find it significant that they hadn't set up camp before the trip back to Leadore because most people would want to avoid making that trip more than once and it is after setting up camp that many people realize they've forgotten something. So regardless of the stated reason for the trip IMO they would have waited until after setting up camp to go Leadore unless the trip was primarily to establish that they were camping with DeOrr.

I always found it unusual they ordered fries. It's the middle of the morning. Unless the fry cook has been frying up french fries the place wouldn't smell like fries. Kids usually want what they can see or smell; it just seem like an odd choice and something that would take more time than grabbing a package of cookies and leaving. Just MOO.

Call it a sixth sense if you want. IMO the family wasn't concerned with mother nature like they were with letting people know they were in the area. The simplest explanation I could come to why someone would want to let people know they were around is there were someone else meeting them there and they hadn't given them good directions to the place or maybe they didn't know where they were going before hand. Anyway they settled on a simple technique of making waves at the convenient store that morning. When their friend arrived they could simply ask if a couple have been with a blonde haired 2 1/2-year-old boy. Problem is it didn't seem to work; The clerk didn't remember them.

I understand what you are saying.
But, one thing to note, as a mama, I don't think it's weird to give a kid fries (I believe they were the heated up Jo Jo's, maybe not recently fried, if the sleuthers here were right about what the Stage Stop serves) at 11 AM or noonish. We like kids to eat, even if it is not cereal at b-fast, sandwich at lunch and chicken dinner at night. I was a on a ferry recently at about that time and I got my son Jo Jo's (they were actually labeled that way!) It was kinda a choice between that or gross looking croissants or a corn dog or popcorn or weird soup.

I would love to understand your last paragraph more if you feel like splainin'.


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[giagreen]

I know, the location really stands out to me too. One of the first things that stood out to me was taking that bumpy ride to the campground late at night then making the trip back to the convenience store first thing the next morning. They hadn't even set up camp.

I find it significant that they hadn't set up camp before the trip back to Leadore because most people would want to avoid making that trip more than once and it is after setting up camp that many people realize they've forgotten something. So regardless of the stated reason for the trip IMO they would have waited until after setting up camp to go Leadore unless the trip was primarily to establish that they were they are camping with DeOrr.

I always found it unusual they ordered fries. It's the middle of the morning. Unless the fry cook has been frying up french fries the place wouldn't smell like fries. Kids usually want what they can see or smell; it just seem like an odd choice and something that would take more time than grabbing a package of cookies and leaving. Just MOO.

Call it a sixth sense if you want. IMO the family wasn't concerned with mother nature like they were with letting people know they were in the area.

Idk I guess the fries never struck me as odd. Cookies don't fill a toddler up and when they run out they get cranky and just want more. Or at least that's what I've found with my toddler. If they had a 40 min ride back to camp and it'd be a bit before they cooked then cookies wouldn't work. And we don't know everything they bought. Maybe they bought a burger and got fries for DeOrr cause really what parent only buys them self's something to eat. Idk the fries seem like a easy clean snack for a toddler thatd fill him up more then some crackers or cookies IMO.

And I guess for me driving isn't a weird thing. I really don't see much that makes the trip to the store weird. We don't have a full list of what they bought. SB said he did. SB also says he has no reason not to believe them. That does speak for its self IMO
Idk I guess everyone is different and come from different backgrounds. Where I come from a 25 mile drive to the nearest store is normal. The bumpy road....ehhh from what I can tell dk owned a 86 doge power ram....the guy probably likes bumpy roads. He screams country boy. And he was a truck driver. The bumps where probably normal to them. And idk about other little boys but mine just belly laughs over bumpy roads in the truck. Its not like this was actually dangerous. Dangerous would be throwing DeOrr on a dirt bike or 4wheeler then hitting the bumpy road. I think that's what people need to realize is that people really are different and see life different. To me its not weird. And their pain is real.

 

[kammiemc]

But IR saw him there. I can't imagine why he would lie about that.

How do you know that they hadn't set up camp before they went to the store?
And I don't find it odd at all that buying feminine hygiene products could be a pressing need.

I am not at all doubting that DeOrr was at the campsite (or at the store) as I assume he was at both. But, I gotta be honest, I don't have reason to believe that IR would be a highly credible witness for LE in that respect or any other. IMO. Did he have a handle on what was happening? He might have! That's one of those things where you wish you could see the interviews.


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[ReadySet]

Well....there have been many cases where LE had evidence but not enough to make an arrest. It's not just about having evidence. They have to have enough and the right evidence that the county thinks they could get a conviction. Once an arrest is made, the clock starts ticking, defense gets to see the evidence the prosecution has, and can start building their defense. So whether or not to arrest is not just LE's decision. Whether or not this is the case here, who knows.

IF they had anything there would be an arrest. Either for the murder or for something to hold them on. Think Hailey Cummings.

After all this time I don't think they have much of anything. I also don't think the four that were there would be able to fool all of local LE, State LE and the FBI. Really.

I have kind of come full circle on all of this. I now wonder if this is a case of a couple who have lost their child and aren't real savvy on how to negotiate the system.

They were stoned by SM from the very first press conference and it's been downhill from there.

Maybe they don't speak well in front of a camera. Maybe they don't want to go on tv. Maybe they just want their son to come home and have no idea of what they should do to accomplish that.

I hope SM has not done them a HUGE injustice.

Looking at all the pictures of the campgrounds a clue could be anywhere but it's really a needle in a haystack. Maybe somebody will get lucky and find something. Maybe not.

 

[haven71]

I don't think he's playing cat and mouse, I think he is genuinely stumped. However, from the latest article (Lord help me find the link) <modsnip> has changed. I still believe he might be baffled, but that the FBI found information or evidence that was not properly analyzed or fleshed out. <modsnip>

I found the article I was referring to. http://www.idahostatejournal.com/ne...cle_10d44717-75dc-5601-aa30-5726228128f8.html

Yes, you are right, there are no quotes from SB, and was written by a reporter who kind of came across as rambling.

 

[ReadySet]

No mention of clothing, as far as I've found

Bowerman told KTVB the grid search involved animal feces identification, also known as scat, to help rule out abduction by animal.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/2015/10/06/new-developments-in-missing-2-year-old-deorr-kunz-jr-case/73483858/

I don't know about that. The last search party was told to look for animal scat and to look for any cloth in it.

Rumor

 

[ReadySet]

Wondering about the "Cease and Desist" orders. In the Kyron Horman case, the FB pages against the defacto suspect were rabid and rampant. Sometimes a page would go down, but that was because FB would take it down because they broke the rules. Then after a while they would reappear. I never heard of any cease and desist orders. But then it's a different situation, so I don't know.

Maybe the Cease and Desist orders have made her feel more confident about appealing out? Plus she's had a few months to get her head together.

 

[desert-blue]

Maybe the Cease and Desist orders have made her feel more confident about appealing out? Plus she's had a few months to get her head together.

Now that the Leadore area is covered in snow, I think she may also feel like she has more "freedom" to be on FB without being criticized for not actively searching for her son every waking moment (the family took some slack for being on SM so much early on, IIRC). MOO.