ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[TheGambler]

Not mutually exclusive.. could have been there at 6pm on Thursday evening then again at 1pm on Friday. jmo

Yea, I realized that after I posted and changed my post. Thanks!

 

[ILOKAL]

I feel like if there wasn't something relative about the sighting then they would be announcing loud and clear that it was a mixup.

There was a newspaper that said the 6pm sighting had been discounted due to video evidence, but then they removed it pretty quickly and edited it to say the walmart sighting had been discounted due to video evidence. I think that might be where some of the confusion over whether it was ruled out comes from. Stage shop in Leodore does not have cameras.

I saw the Walmart issue discounted based on video. But that's not what I was talking about. I'd swear I read, in answer to a question by someone, DK say the 6:00 sighting was cleared up and it wasn't them. Sorry, I've looked and looked and tried to retrace where I might have read that and I simply can't find it. Again, I'm sorry for any added confusion

 

[desert-blue]

So we're in agreement, it sounds like - unless I'm missing something?

I'm confused about whether TBC or JM is the caretaker for TBC's mom (Deorr's great-grandpa). Has it been stated somewhere or is it just speculation that JM cares for him full-time?

 

[IDTater]

It may be just my curiosity, but for some reason I don't think GGF is in as bad of shape as people would like us to think he is. He can be in his 70's, have declining health and early stages of dementia, that comes and goes. IIRC, JM stays at home with him during the day, hired by her Mom to do so, right?

Well, this could be a two-fold solution, someone is with GGF and it also gives JM an income without going out to work and paying a babysitter. If GGF health is so poor, why would JM and DK, Sr. even think about going off to explore for those 10 minutes and leaving little Deorr with GGF?

GGF has to be in better health, both mentally and physically, since the parents felt it was okay to leave toddler Deorr in his care! Hmmmmm

BBM.

People make bad decisions every day. They don't use seat belts, carseats, helmets, life jackets. Parents leave their kids with drug dealers, violent criminals, sexual predators. I've taken care of kiddos who's parents left loaded firearms, drugs, and poison within the kids' reach.

I'm not pointing any fingers at little DeOrr's parents. My point is only that their decision to leave him with GGP isn't proof that GGP possesses the mental and/or physical abilities to take care of a toddler. In my mind, it's just another big unknown in this case.

 

[SweetT]

I know where I live you can tell what a bear has been eating by looking at its scat. I also know in Yellowstone the forest rangers know pretty much where all the dens are for the animals etc. So Why don't they (If it isn't too late) Have some of these experts come in and look for Deorr. I also know that animals will be by the water for a water source..but my fear is that if they brought atv's in pretty quickly that they scared off any predators and that was a bad decision IMO. Also game trail cameras would have been a good idea at least at first, dont know about now... One other thing, why can they not bring in search dogs and cadaver dogs right away on the first day Just in case?

 

[Eileen730]

Who invited who on this camping trip?
I think that's an important question,
Whos idea was this?

 

[SweetT]

BBM.

People make bad decisions every day. They don't use seat belts, carseats, helmets, life jackets. Parents leave their kids with drug dealers, violent criminals, sexual predators. I've taken care of kiddos who's parents left loaded firearms, drugs, and poison within the kids' reach.

I'm not pointing any fingers at little DeOrr's parents. My point is only that their decision to leave him with GGP isn't proof that GGP possesses the mental and/or physical abilities to take care of a toddler. In my mind, it's just another big unknown in this case.

I was under the impression that Deorrs parents lived with a grandpa. My grandkids and kids lived with me for a while, and took for granted that I was watching their children when they weren't. I was used to it so I knew when they went off somewhere that it was on me...unspoken thing. Anyway I fear that these kids got used to that type of scenario and figured GGpa was also in on it.. But if he was not used to living with them etc then it would not have been just a natural thing for him. I really think he was never asked to watch Deorr and the parents Assumed he would.. Not really thinking it through. Yea it was a bad decision, but stuff happens.

 

[BeeFriendly]

All this talk of stolen EMT bags with drugs in them, has me wondering if this area of Idaho is known for illegal drug growing,

Are there people living off the grid in this area?

I have been wondering about this very thing....people living off the grid. Years ago I saw a 'Special Report' on KOMO News 4 here in Seattle, covering the Pointman Ministries reaching out to PTSD Vets living in the Okanogan National Forest. It was a 'Stand Down' of sorts....I believe the Cascade Mountain Men were involved with the ministry as well. They held a church service in the mountains for these wounded vets...Lot's of prayer, food, one on one counseling. A weekend of spiritual healing.
They began it with praise and worship songs echoing through the mountain, the smell of barbecue wafting through the air. One by one, people started coming out of the forest. Guys in tattered clothes, covered in dirt, some in ancient camo fatigues. Some with their face blackened. There must have been 100 very raggedy vets that eventually came out of those woods. Vets that never rejoined society after the wars they fought.
After Deorr went missing, I researched this further, how many homeless vets are in Idaho? According to the VA, there are approximately 500. Map provided. http://www.longmarchhome.org/homelessness_map.html

There are annual 'Stand Downs' for vets hosted in Idaho Falls, Boise, Pocatello and throughout Montana. I'm wondering just how many of them are living in the woods with PTSD? I'm wondering if the local VA might be aware of clusters of vets living in National Forests around Idaho.

I would also be making inquiries at the homeless shelters...asking if anyone knows of people living in the National Parks, not just vets....anyone, they may have run into living off the grid. An EMT kit would be a highly coveted prize for the homeless.

 

[Eileen730]

I was under the impression that Deorrs parents lived with a grandpa. My grandkids and kids lived with me for a while, and took for granted that I was watching their children when they weren't. I was used to it so I knew when they went off somewhere that it was on me...unspoken thing. Anyway I fear that these kids got used to that type of scenario and figured GGpa was also in on it.. But if he was not used to living with them etc then it would not have been just a natural thing for him. I really think he was never asked to watch Deorr and the parents Assumed he would.. Not really thinking it through. Yea it was a bad decision, but stuff happens.

The impression I got was GGP is not mentally able or capable to watch Deorr. Why would they leave him with him?
Has anyone seen GGF?

 

[IDTater]

I know where I live you can tell what a bear has been eating by looking at its scat. I also know in Yellowstone the forest rangers know pretty much where all the dens are for the animals etc. So Why don't they (If it isn't too late) Have some of these experts come in and look for Deorr. I also know that animals will be by the water for a water source..but my fear is that if they brought atv's in pretty quickly that they scared off any predators and that was a bad decision IMO. Also game trail cameras would have been a good idea at least at first, dont know about now... One other thing, why can they not bring in search dogs and cadaver dogs right away on the first day Just in case?

Idaho F&G was part of the search effort and they did search a wolf den. I can't find the article now but Sheriff Bowerman made a comment to the effect that with the combined expertise of the searchers and the dogs, little DeOrr should have been found the first day if he was there.

ETA: found the report!

http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

 

[SweetT]

The impression I got was GGP is not mentally able or capable to watch Deorr. Why would they leave him with him?
Has anyone seen GGF?

I have not been able to ascertain whether GGP was mentally able or capable..perhaps the parents figured as long as GGPA has eyes on the boy then its fine? IDK I still think it was an assumption of watching Deorr on the parents part and that GGPa didnt know he had been left with that task, If he was not able to physically or mentally do this then it does make you wonder why the parents would even think he was able to. Or they know if they don't say GGPa was watching the boy that they could be in trouble for negligence? IDK..and I have not seen GGF.

 

[TheGambler]

I was under the impression that Deorrs parents lived with a grandpa. My grandkids and kids lived with me for a while, and took for granted that I was watching their children when they weren't. I was used to it so I knew when they went off somewhere that it was on me...unspoken thing. Anyway I fear that these kids got used to that type of scenario and figured GGpa was also in on it.. But if he was not used to living with them etc then it would not have been just a natural thing for him. I really think he was never asked to watch Deorr and the parents Assumed he would.. Not really thinking it through. Yea it was a bad decision, but stuff happens.

Deorr's parents live with baby Deorr's Dad's Dad or Deorr's grandpa. It was the Great grandpa (Deorr's mom's grandpa) that was with them camping.

 

[SweetT]

Idaho F&G was part of the search effort and they did search a wolf den. I can't find the article now but Sheriff Bowerman made a comment to the effect that with the combined expertise of the searchers and the dogs, little DeOrr should have been found the first day if he was there.

I recall them searching a wolf den, but wild cats would be more of the predator I would suspect in this case.. If no wildcat scat was found anywhere near the area then I might have different thoughts but I'm hoping someone already checked this angle...I have read too many cases where a wild cat was involved and the body is found later sometimes no further than 500 yards away. Which really makes you go HUH? and wouldnt cadaver dogs have picked this up if brought in right away?

 

[TheGambler]

What has actually been stated by family, LE or the press about the GGP's health. Did he just have health problems, mental problems or both? I think we are just speculating how bad he is.

 

[SweetT]

Deorr's parents live with baby Deorr's Dad's Dad or Deorr's grandpa. It was the Great grandpa (Deorr's mom's grandpa) that was with them camping.

OK that is what I thought. So GGPa was probably not used to being tasked to watch the baby.

 

[BeeFriendly]

I have been wondering about this very thing. Years ago I saw a news special on KOMO News 4 here in Seattle, covering the Pointman Ministries reaching out to PTSD Vets living in the Okanogan National Forest. It was a 'Stand Down' of sorts....I believe the Cascade Mountain Men were involved with the ministry as well. They held a church service in the mountains for these wounded vets...Lot's of prayer, food, one on one counseling.
They began it with praise and worship songs echoing through the woods, the smell of barbecue wafting through the air. One by one, people started coming out of the forest. Guys in tattered clothes, covered in dirt, some in ancient camo fatigues. There must have been 100 very raggedy vets that came out of those woods. Vets that never rejoined society after the wars they fought.
After Deorr went missing, I researched this further, how many homeless vets are in Idaho? According to the VA, there are approximately 500. Map provided. http://www.longmarchhome.org/homelessness_map.html

There are annual 'Stand Downs' for vets hosted in Idaho Falls, Pocatello and Montana. I'm wondering just how many of them are living in the woods with PTSD? I'm wondering if the local VA might be aware of clusters of vets living in National Forests around Idaho.

I would also be making inquiries at the homeless shelters...asking if anyone knows of people living in the National Parks, not just vets....anyone, they may have run into living off the grid. An EMT kit would be a highly coveted prize for the homeless.

 

[Not_Important_]

I have not been able to ascertain whether GGP was mentally able or capable..perhaps the parents figured as long as GGPA has eyes on the boy then its fine? IDK I still think it was an assumption of watching Deorr on the parents part and that GGPa didnt know he had been left with that task, If he was not able to physically or mentally do this then it does make you wonder why the parents would even think he was able to. Or they know if they don't say GGPa was watching the boy that they could be in trouble for negligence? IDK..and I have not seen GGF.

Has it been determined where IR was when DeOrr went missing? I've heard that he was with GGP, then he was off fishing by himself, and then he was actually with JM and DK when DeOrr went missing. If IR was with GGP, I can kind of better understand them leaving DeOrr with GGP and IR.

 

[SweetT]

I have been wondering about this very thing. Years ago I saw a news special on KOMO News 4 here in Seattle, covering the Pointman Ministries reaching out to PTSD Vets living in the Okanogan National Forest. It was a 'Stand Down' of sorts....I believe the Cascade Mountain Men were involved with the ministry as well. They held a church service in the mountains for these wounded vets...Lot's of prayer, food, one on one counseling.
They began it with praise and worship songs echoing through the woods, the smell of barbecue wafting through the air. One by one, people started coming out of the forest. Guys in tattered clothes, covered in dirt, some in ancient camo fatigues. There must have been 100 very raggedy vets that came out of those woods. Vets that never rejoined society after the wars they fought.
After Deorr went missing, I researched this further, how many homeless vets are in Idaho? According to the VA, there are approximately 500. Map provided. http://www.longmarchhome.org/homelessness_map.html

There are annual 'Stand Downs' for vets hosted in Idaho Falls, Pocatello and Montana. I'm wondering just how many of them are living in the woods with PTSD? I'm wondering if the local VA might be aware of clusters of vets living in National Forests around Idaho.

I would also be making inquiries at the homeless shelters...asking if anyone knows of people living in the National Parks, not just vets....anyone, they may have run into living off the grid.

Not to be rude or anything but the television show with men wandering out of the woods to the smell of barbq and singing seems a little like it might be faked to me..I mean I have seen television ministry stuff that is totally fabricated and exaggerated so you may want to be a little wary of some of these shows. Just saying. But to the other stuff, anything is possible I suppose. I just don't see a bunch of off the grid people hiding in the woods waiting to take babies as a huge possibility..but hey he hasn't been found yet so I dont discount anything at this point. JMO

 

[IDTater]

What has actually been stated by family, LE or the press about the GGP's health. Did he just have health problems, mental problems or both? I think we are just speculating how bad he is.

From http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...-search-deorr-kuna-persons-interest/30799181/

The sheriff says the great-grandfather is not considered a suspect due to his declining physical and mental health.

If I'm not mistaken, after this article came out, another one came out and said that everyone at the campsite, great grandpa included, was considered a person of interest.

ETA: From http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html

Bowerman said everyone at the campsite is considered a person of interest in the case, however, none of them are suspects -- this includes the parents, the child's great-grandfather and family friend Isaac Reinwand.

I guess it just depends on the day...

 

[BeeFriendly]

Not to be rude or anything but the television show with men wandering out of the woods to the smell of barbq and singing seems a little like it might be faked to me..I mean I have seen television ministry stuff that is totally fabricated and exaggerated so you may want to be a little wary of some of these shows. Just saying. But to the other stuff, anything is possible I suppose. I just don't see a bunch of off the grid people hiding in the woods waiting to take babies as a huge possibility..but hey he hasn't been found yet so I dont discount anything at this point. JMO

I personally knew the Mountain man...he was a co-worker. No, it was not staged, but understand why you would think that. I was referring to the missing EMT kit. It would be a highly coveted prize for the homeless.