ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[Vail]

What we can discuss here is covered in the following thread's links and highlights. My hope is this helps the discussion follow a less chaotic and roundabout line of thought than it has the last 2 threads:

DeOrr Kunz Media, Maps and Timeline
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot

At the scene:
DeOrr Kunz - missing child
Vernal Deorr Kunz - father
Jessica Mitchell - mother
gramps - JM's maternal grandfather
Isaac Reinwand - family friend

Others in MSM:
Trina Clegg - JM's mother, gramps daughter (not present until after DeOrr went missing)
DeOrr Sr - DeOrr (Vernal's) father. JM, DeOrr and Baby DeOrr live with him
Tanisha Kunz - DK's sister, Baby DeOrr's aunt

It is normal for those present when someone goes missing to be considered POIs. "Person of interest" is a term used by U.S. law enforcement when identifying someone involved in a criminal investigation who has not been arrested or formally accused of a crime. It has no legal meaning, but refers to someone in whom the police are "interested", either because the person is cooperating with the investigation, may have information that would assist the investigation, or possesses certain characteristics that merit further attention.

Things that are fleshed out only in SM are the following (so be careful):
The EMT Bag
Grandpa's name and details
JM's ex, her other kids and custody
Drug habits or history
The diaper
TC's statements outside of MSM

Topics that have been fully explored in other threads:
Mountain Lions
Wolves
Mines
The Creek
Cremains
The Reservoir
The Store
Statement analysis of the interview
LE dropping the ball
LDS/Mormonism

Sasquatch/Missing 411
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ent-Cases-of-Missing-People-in-National-Parks

 

[bluesneakers]

Thank you Vail! Very helpful!

I have a question/possible addition: Have the abilities and reliability of scent dogs been fully explored?

 

[pepelepolecat]

Sasquatch ...

Goodness.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

I personally have never believed what we heard from that woman in the background in the interview with parents, was saying "EMT bag." IMO she was saying "empty bag." Say them both, they sound almost the same. It makes no sense to me for there to have been reference to an EMT bag. I could see someone saying a First Aid kit or bag, but EMT bag? And what is an EMT bag anyway? If I found a bag of medical/resuscitation equipment the first thing that comes to my mind is not going to be "oh this is an EMT bag."

I personally knew the Mountain man...he was a co-worker. No, it was not staged, but understand why you would think that. I was referring to the missing EMT kit. It would be a highly coveted prize for the homeless.

 

[jmcgladr]

I'm fine with random thoughts! And I want him found alive too.

So... grab the kid who was being neglected or was lost and alone, steal an EMT to help care for the child and then leave? I would think (hope!) if someone did such a thing he or she would come forward once the search started.

But I could see someone doing that. You come across a kid alone in the wilderness and what are you going to do?

I'd look for his parents - surely they were close by, from all accounts I've heard!

 

[SweetT]

I'd look for his parents - surely they were close by, from all accounts I've heard!

I'd look for parentals and call 911..

 

[wondering25]

Just a thought... How can we really rely on MSM? They are the source of putting out a false report saying Deoor was found! The family has been in SM and quite vocal. Should this ever go to trial, you can be SURE every FB account of family members involved with spreading info will be explored, subpoenaed and presented as evidence as to "facts, state of mind etc. . My feeling is that their info is just as reliable and maybe even more reliable than MSM. Remember, mom has been on SM also. The argument is made that we don't know if it is the mom.. would it be more the mom if she was named a suspect?

When someone puts themselves "out there" people will scrutinize. That includes arm chair detectives, LE and the FBI. I don't know what happened to Deorr. I am victim friendly.. and IMO.. the ultimate victim is this baby! JMO

 

[Jules71]

I personally have never believed what we heard from that woman in the background in the interview with parents, was saying "EMT bag." IMO she was saying "empty bag." Say them both, they sound almost the same. It makes no sense to me for there to have been reference to an EMT bag. I could see someone saying a First Aid kit or bag, but EMT bag? And what is an EMT bag anyway? If I found a bag of medical/resuscitation equipment the first thing that comes to my mind is not going to be "oh this is an EMT bag."

I heard E M T bag.
'Empty' sounds like "M" or "em".
'EMT' you can hear the long E sound.
IMO, she definitely said EMT.

We've discussed this so much over many threads - including what an emt bag is, what they might contain, and why someone may want to steal one. We even speculated how it might relate to this case. The discussion spans all of the threads, but I know we discussed it again in great lengths in this thread (or the last) as well.


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[Jules71]

Just a thought... How can we really rely on MSM? They are the source of putting out a false report saying Deoor was found! The family has been in SM and quite vocal. Should this ever go to trial, you can be SURE every FB account of family members involved with spreading info will be explored, subpoenaed and presented as evidence as to "facts, state of mind etc. . My feeling is that their info is just as reliable and maybe even more reliable than MSM. Remember, mom has been on SM also. The argument is made that we don't know if it is the mom.. would it be more the mom if she was named a suspect?

When someone puts themselves "out there" people will scrutinize. That includes arm chair detectives, LE and the FBI. I don't know what happened to Deorr. I am victim friendly.. and IMO.. the ultimate victim is this baby! JMO

I agree. It would be much more productive if we could discuss the things that people named in msm have been posting. Even if we had to add a disclaimer that it is not absolute fact. Yes, DeOrr Jr is the ultimate victim.

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[Jackeee]

I have a question about the original search, so if this has already been commented on, please bear with me.

Why would all terrain vehicles be used? I understand that the searches covered a huge area, but how would anyone hear cries for help over the noise? The scenario in my head is of DeOrr being stuck or lying somewhere injured but his cries aren't heard and he isn't visible.

Im not sure how searches are organized other than I saw people walking and also on horseback.

Do do the searchers that are walking or on horseback go first, followed by vehicles?

I would like a better understanding if someone can help. Thank you.

 

[mommylicious]

The EMT bag was addressed in SM... But we can't discuss what was said about it.

 

[bluesneakers]

I agree. It would be much more productive if we could discuss the things that people named in msm have been posting. Even if we had to add a disclaimer that it is not absolute fact. Yes, DeOrr Jr is the ultimate victim.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

One of the reasons I appreciate this site so much is the TOS keep us focused on facts and doesn't encourage accusing and sleuthing victims. I think allowing all the gossip, SM comments, and rumour, internet histories, etc., would do the exact opposite of making threads more productive. Visit a discussion about Deorr on other sites and you'll see exactly what I mean.

 

[Jules71]

My theory at the moment is this:

All 4 campers arrived Thursday evening.

Issac and ggf never saw the baby / they thought he was sleeping since they arrived late.

Next morning mom and dad say they are going to leave in the truck and check out the area and go to the store in town. IR and ggf still don't see the baby.

They get back by 1 pm. IR and ggf don't see the baby. They think he is napping.

JM and DK go off to explore then come back and ask where DKjr is.

This starts the search and then call to 911.

In this scenario there is no confirmation of them being seen at the store. The rumor of a sighting is a ruse. The story of a stolen emt bag is a ruse.

No scent track other than the confusion with the cremains. No trace. No evidence. Not thought to be an abduction or animal attack. IR's confirmation of what happened was non committal.

This is the only thing that fits for me and is purely my speculation only.

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[Mountaingazer]

The EMT bag was addressed in SM... But we can't discuss what was said about it.

And it was definitely EMT not empty.

 

[bluesneakers]

My theory at the moment is this:

All 5 campers arrived Thursday evening.

Issac and ggf never saw the baby / they thought he was sleeping since they arrived late.

Next morning mom and dad say they are going to leave in the truck and check out the area and go to the store in town. IR and ggf still don't see the baby.

They get back by 1 pm. IR and ggf don't see the baby. They think he is napping.

JM and DK go off to explore then come back and ask where DKjr is.

This starts the search and then call to 911.

In this scenario there is no confirmation of them being seen at the store. The rumor of a sighting is a ruse. The story of a stolen emt bag is a ruse.

No scent track other than the confusion with the cremains. No trace. No evidence. Not thought to be an abduction or animal attack. IR's confirmation of what happened was non committal.

This is the only thing that fits for me and is purely my speculation only.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

BBM. What happens in between? Where is the baby?

 

[rkf]

What we can discuss here is covered in the following thread's links and highlights. My hope is this helps the discussion follow a less chaotic and roundabout line of thought than it has the last 2 threads:

DeOrr Kunz Media, Maps and Timeline
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot

At the scene:
DeOrr Kunz - missing child
Vernal Deorr Kunz - father
Jessica Mitchell - mother
gramps - JM's maternal grandfather
Isaac Reinwand - family friend

Others in MSM:
Trina Clegg - JM's mother, gramps daughter (not present until after DeOrr went missing)
DeOrr Sr - DeOrr (Vernal's) father. JM, DeOrr and Baby DeOrr live with him
Tanisha Kunz - DK's sister, Baby DeOrr's aunt

It is normal for those present when someone goes missing to be considered POIs. "Person of interest" is a term used by U.S. law enforcement when identifying someone involved in a criminal investigation who has not been arrested or formally accused of a crime. It has no legal meaning, but refers to someone in whom the police are "interested", either because the person is cooperating with the investigation, may have information that would assist the investigation, or possesses certain characteristics that merit further attention.

Things that are fleshed out only in SM are the following (so be careful):
The EMT Bag
Grandpa's name and details
JM's ex, her other kids and custody
Drug habits or history
The diaper
TC's statements outside of MSM

Topics that have been fully explored in other threads:
Mountain Lions
Wolves
Mines
The Creek
Cremains
The Reservoir
The Store
Statement analysis of the interview
LE dropping the ball
LDS/Mormonism

Sasquatch/Missing 411
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ent-Cases-of-Missing-People-in-National-Parks

Thank you for this.

I don't think statement analysis of the interview has been fully explored, unless you are talking about reverse speech (hog wash). I'm not sure we can fully explore statement analysis of the interview, because it might be considered sleuthing the parents. JMO

 

[wondering25]

And it was definitely EMT not empty.

I agree it was EMT.. i do wonder if that is a red herring rather than a clue??? Like the cremains being a lousy coincidence and not a clue..jmo

 

[rkf]

I have a question about the original search, so if this has already been commented on, please bear with me.

Why would all terrain vehicles be used? I understand that the searches covered a huge area, but how would anyone hear cries for help over the noise? The scenario in my head is of DeOrr being stuck or lying somewhere injured but his cries aren't heard and he isn't visible.

Im not sure how searches are organized other than I saw people walking and also on horseback.

Do do the searchers that are walking or on horseback go first, followed by vehicles?

I would like a better understanding if someone can help. Thank you.

Also, would be good to know how soon ATVs were on the scene. Did DK have his ATV with him for the camping trip or bring it up later? If so, did he bring a resupply of gas with him? We have ATVs at our vacation house, and it's a pain to have to keep refilling the gas can 15 miles away, because they really seem to guzzle the gas! How far could DK get on that ATV before needing to refuel and did he use it to search for DeOrr before LE arrived?

 

[wondering25]

Dad said "we went to the store as a family" How do we define family? mom, dad and baby? Mom, dad and GGP? Mom dad GGP and baby? Just thought the verbiage was stilted.."as a family"

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Bowerman said everyone at the campsite — including the boy’s parents, great-grandfather and a family friend — is considered a person of interest in the case, but none of them are suspects

http://q13fox.com/2015/08/02/fbi-investigators-join-search-for-missing-idaho-2-year-old-deorr-kunz/

IMO... This is one big change since FBI has taken over the case...

prior... GGPA was considered in too ill health to even be considered a POI...

ALL... JMO...