ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[4senthia]

I know the topic of the cremains is a touchy one.
If we are to believe, logically, that this site is so remote that hardly 1 car per hour travels that road, how did it happen that on that 1 day when the search for DeOrr began the cremains were dumped?
That's about like winning the lottery. Or being eaten by a shark. I don't think people are as uneducated about such matters as some do.
The scene was not secured.
That means every car trunk wasn't checked.
To me that also means DeOrr could have been taken away by a human.
I don't believe in pure coincidences.
jmho

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Is the date of the cremains incident confirmed to be the first day? i.e the 10th July?

 

[sunflowerchick]

I wonder if DK took off in his truck while JM called 911 from the camp ground, not only to get better phone reception, but because he suspected the child had been abducted and hoped he could catch them. I further wonder if he may suspect who took him.

Sheer speculation, no facts

That's certainly an interesting thought. My problem with that theory is this: If that were the case, wouldn't they have given the info to LE as to who they suspected? LE would have been all over that instead of spending all the resources, money and time searching the camping area.

 

[kammiemc]

Definitely something creepy about that guy. I certainly wouldn't want him around my children. Anyway to answer your question, yes that is where the fishing story comes into play. The rumor mill reports that he was fishing when DeOrr disappeared.

Wow. So he and ggp were left with DeOrr, he says DeOrr wandered away (presumably to find his parents) and he goes fishing at basically the same time? Was he at the campsite when LE showed up?

It almost seems too obvious a scenario that he would take the boy when the parents left. If he had the opportunity and means (time/transportation) to take DeOrr away it seems like he would be graduated to suspect.

Interesting in his interview he said "I'm not supposed to say..." When being asked if DeOrr just wandered off.

Just thinking out loud.


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[babyback]

Is the date of the cremains incident confirmed to be the first day? i.e the 10th July?

I'm not certain that we know the exact day. I've been searching for that information, and all I'm able to find is that during their search of the area, the woman was depositing the remains.

 

[4senthia]

I'm not sure if we have an exact date of the cremains dumping.
All I've heard is Bowerman saying "someone dumping cremains up there during the search".
Could someone who was w/the searchers or helping them in any way dump them 1 or 2 days later? Interesting.
jmho

 

[sunflowerchick]

Wow. So he and ggp were left with DeOrr, he says DeOrr wandered away (presumably to find his parents) and he goes fishing at basically the same time? Was he at the campsite when LE showed up?

It almost seems too obvious a scenario that he would take the boy when the parents left. If he had the opportunity and means (time/transportation) to take DeOrr away it seems like he would be graduated to suspect.

Interesting in his interview he said "I'm not supposed to say..." When being asked if DeOrr just wandered off.

Just thinking out loud.


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Didn't LE say he was "cleared"?

 

[babyback]

However in saying that, if there were already dogs, atv's, sonar equipment already there and working, would she STILL have scattered those cremains?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

There is yet another one. That funeral home was the one in charge of the arrangements for the RSO's mother who died at the RSO's home in Leadore at the end of June.

Yourself or other sleuthers may recognise the following:

'One coincidence. two coincidences — maybe they're still coincidences. Any more than that and it stops being coincidence

I wonder though if there is a possible conflict of interest around all these "coincidences" and whether it had any bearing on the (whole) investigation being handed over to the FBI?

 

[kammiemc]

Before they left DK talked to little DeOrr about staying back and being good with GGP. That left me with the impression his parents had eyes on him before they headed out for their walk.

When did the parents say they talked to DeOrr? All they said in the interview was that they thought DeOrr would be fine with grandpa by the campfire. DK never mentioned speaking to DeOrr. I'd love to see a link. If you don't mind!


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[babyback]

I may have missed this, so I'm going to ask. How familiar with this particular area and people was DeOrr's family?

 

[katydid23]

Wow. So he and ggp were left with DeOrr, he says DeOrr wandered away (presumably to find his parents) and he goes fishing at basically the same time? Was he at the campsite when LE showed up?

It almost seems too obvious a scenario that he would take the boy when the parents left. If he had the opportunity and means (time/transportation) to take DeOrr away it seems like he would be graduated to suspect.

Interesting in his interview he said "I'm not supposed to say..." When being asked if DeOrr just wandered off.

Just thinking out loud.


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That ^^^ scenario is where I have been stuck. Something along those lines. In my HYPOTHETICAL scenario, GGP is somewhat distracted and sitting by the fire pit. { probably no fire going though?]

Baby is sitting and playing with his trucks in the dirt, so parents think it is a good time for them to slip away, so they do it on the down low, so the boy does not get upset. So quietly that GGP does not even know he is in charge of the baby.

That leaves a small window of opportunity open for the family friend, to take over 'caring' for the boy. He could have scooped him up and gone into the woods with him for more than an hour. Just hypothetically speaking...

 

[katydid23]

Didn't LE say he was "cleared"?

NOPe. They said he was a POI, is cooperating, and not a suspect. But IMO, that does not mean 'cleared.'

 

[Niner]

Hi all, just catching up from last night...

BBM
As of July 20th the Sheriff's office redirected the investigation, but to what? Did they look into abduction by strangers or wild animals and determine by July 31st that "There is no evidence suggesting DeOrr was abducted," and "There is also no sign the toddler was attacked by the bears, mountain lions and wolves known to roam the area"? (http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731?irpc=932) This states that on the 20th, the parents had volunteered to take polygraphs, but that doesn't mean they had taken them.

On the 15th, Nate Eaton reported "According to investigators, Kunz and Mitchell have offered DNA samples and are willing to undergo lie detector tests." (http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/a-closer-look-the-campground-where-deorr-kunz-disappeared/)

On the 17th, the following exchange took place on the Nancy Grace show:
JEAN CESAREZ: Matt Zarrell, one more thing. Lie detector tests, polygraphs -- have any of them been done at all with family members?

MATT ZARRELL: No, but the cops are telling us on the record that the parents have volunteered to take polygraphs, but the sheriff doubts that they would even be administered at this time. http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/16/ng.01.html

Has anyone seen a reputable MSM source or video of the Sheriff saying the people at the campsite actually took polygraphs? (not blogs or news aggregator sites) If they took them and passed, I would expect the PI to be shouting that from rooftops. I wonder if they haven't taken them yet.

Does "no sign of the victim" mean there was no evidence he was ever there or no evidence to explain his disappearance? That is an unusual phrase in this situation.

from the Timeline:
Quotes from Tuesday, July 21st - http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-d...nz-jr/34281340
Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

The sheriff also stated that at this time he does not consider the parents to be suspects in the child's disappearance. He confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public.

I totally understand this, however since we know nothing about what evidence was or was not found, and up until recently, we have heard that nothing was found, it's like he vanished. The toy trucks that he had with him, and his oversized boots have not been located.

So, how does one vanish a child without leaving any evidence? Anything........

All I can think after all the searching.... :ufo:

 

[babyback]

That ^^^ scenario is where I have been stuck. Something along those lines. In my HYPOTHETICAL scenario, GGP is somewhat distracted and sitting by the fire pit. { probably no fire going though?]

Baby is sitting and playing with his trucks in the dirt, so parents think it is a good time for them to slip away, so they do it on the down low, so the boy does not get upset. So quietly that GGP does not even know he is in charge of the baby.

That leaves a small window of opportunity open for the family friend, to take over 'caring' for the boy. He could have scooped him up and gone into the woods with him for more than an hour. Just hypothetically speaking...

Within that hypothetical, then begs the question, was this person seen my GGF, and mom and dad immediately after they returned to the campsite?

 

[kammiemc]

Didn't LE say he was "cleared"?

No, I don't think so. I think they said IR is a POI, just like the parents, but that he has not been named a suspect. The only time I have heard the word "cleared" was when the PI said he cleared the two RSO's.


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[KYPastTracker]

I wonder though if there is a possible conflict of interest around all these "coincidences" and whether it had any bearing on the (whole) investigation being handed over to the FBI?

Hmmm.....That's a good question. Probably not, but still....."Things that make you go "Hmmmmm"!

 

[kammiemc]

That ^^^ scenario is where I have been stuck. Something along those lines. In my HYPOTHETICAL scenario, GGP is somewhat distracted and sitting by the fire pit. { probably no fire going though?]

Baby is sitting and playing with his trucks in the dirt, so parents think it is a good time for them to slip away, so they do it on the down low, so the boy does not get upset. So quietly that GGP does not even know he is in charge of the baby.

That leaves a small window of opportunity open for the family friend, to take over 'caring' for the boy. He could have scooped him up and gone into the woods with him for more than an hour. Just hypothetically speaking...

That seems viable!! I wonder if they used the search dogs to track anyone's scent beyond DeOrr. I would have tracked where IR went (or didn't go if he just jumped in a car and took off). Is it true that the dogs searching for DeOrr's scent (not remains) just kept coming back to the campsite and specifically the truck?


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[babyback]

You see, where my mind is going is, DeOrr is left with GGF, the friend goes off to fish. Where do you suppose a 2 1/2 year old is going to go? Would he sit and play, or would he follow along to fish?

 

[katydid23]

You see, where my mind is going is, DeOrr is left with GGF, the friend goes off to fish. Where do you suppose a 2 1/2 year old is going to go? Would he sit and play, or would he follow along to fish?

Yes. GGP thought he followed the parents. But he did not follow them anywhere. So maybe he followed the fisherman?