ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[SweetT]

I don't find the arrival time that off, either, especially if someone had to work that day. Despite our best efforts I don't think we've ever left right on time for trips. So IF ( totally MOO) they waited until someone was home from work, grabbed last minute stuff, stopped for dinner, maybe bathroom breaks, 9:30 isn't so late. Get to bed, take it easy in the morning, head to the store for forgotten or last-minute items then head back to camp to officially "set up" for the weekend.

Where would you have slept if you arrived at 930? I need light to set up my tents..heck even then sometimes its hard. So did they set up that night or the next day? Where would they have slept? You wouldnt want your 2 yr old son wandering around the campsite at night while you pitch a tent right? Just asking..I mean this was a primitive site, no street lights etc.

 

[kammiemc]

MY logic, LOL!! In THAT case we WILL just have to agree to disagree. SOME people are hell bent to find fault with these (and most other) parents and end up going round in circles trying to make something, ANYTHING fit. That just doesn't make ANY sense to me, but that's JMO.

I totally don't get how believing the parents' PI about a Thurs arrival is being hell bent to find fault with the parents. Is a Thurs arrival incriminating while a Fri arrival is non-incriminating. Help me understand!


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[babyback]

Where would you have slept if you arrived at 930? I need light to set up my tents..heck even then sometimes its hard. So did they set up that night or the next day? Where would they have slept? You wouldnt want your 2 yr old son wandering around the campsite at night while you pitch a tent right? Just asking..I mean this was a primitive site, no street lights etc.

Well just speaking for myself, I would have slept in a camper for the night, or even inside one of the vehicles. I'm not saying that's what they did. And of course I wouldn't have arrived at a campsite that late at night, I would have planned a bit better. IMO

 

[kammiemc]

Where would you have slept if you arrived at 930? I need light to set up my tents..heck even then sometimes its hard. So did they set up that night or the next day? Where would they have slept? You wouldnt want your 2 yr old son wandering around the campsite at night while you pitch a tent right? Just asking..I mean this was a primitive site, no street lights etc.

I would have slept in the back of a suburban.


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[jmcgladr]

IMO, I can see a way where both acccounts/sides are right when it comes to the arrival time - i.e. they arrived from their HOME on Thursday, and they arrived from their trip to the store in Leadore on Friday. Possible?

 

[desert-blue]

How is believing that they arrived on Thursday evening finding fault with the parents? Why are you trying to make "they arrived on Friday" FIT in the timeline?

Personally I am on the fence about what happened to DeOrr and don't strongly support any theory.

That is what I don't get either. It doesn't seem like a big deal for them to have driven up on Thursday instead of Friday.

I hope the rumor is true and that there will be some news on this case tomorrow!

 

[Cardinal47]

They might have had no choice to stop if they needed gas. The clerk said (as per what the parents said about the rumor) the man bought candy in the store.

But this whole thing is a bit of a head-scratcher. If a child was missing (no way to know from the start if he wandered off or was taken) wouldn't the sheriff have made immediately sure that the only local gas station/store employees knew to be on the lookout for a blond toddler. And if the clerk did indeed report that sighting to LE wouldn't they have issued an Amber Alert? Instead they're saying that there is no evidence to suggest an abduction. And even the PI has not brought up this rumor as a lead that the sheriff didn't follow up on. I'm thinking it goes nowhere--either was a completely false rumor, the toddler was another toddler or the clerk was remembering the Kunz family coming in earlier in the day (if they did).

Actually why didn't they issue an Amber alert for the boy and man and black truck since as you say they know one was missing that fits that exact description? The clerk saw them and evidently told somebody so why didn't they Amber Alert that twosome???

Better safe than sorry as we are now!

 

[ClaireNC]

I am curious, just for argument's sake, if it's, say, reported by MSM tomorrow that the PI's information about the Thurs arrival time is accurate, is that a problem? I get the feeling that it's being somehow seen as against the parents to assume the PI is accurate. I don't think I understand the implications of a Thurs arrival date. (I'm thinking there must be implications because it's being so hotly debated!) Is it that it would imply that the parents lied? Genuine question.

Thanks Kammiemc. I also don't understand the possible implications of them arriving on Thursday and how that is construed as being disrespectful to the parents. In fact, to me it makes the trip to the store on Friday more believable.

 

[kammiemc]

IMO, I can see a way where both acccounts/sides are right when it comes to the arrival time - i.e. they arrived from their HOME on Thursday, and they arrived from their trip to the store in Leadore on Friday. Possible?

Possible, but not probable if the reporter generally uses clear phrasing to describe things. If he did actually mean they arrived from town, he was being unclear, or WAS unclear. But the PI was very clear.


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[jmcgladr]

I am curious, just for argument's sake, if it's, say, reported by MSM tomorrow that the PI's information about the Thurs arrival time is accurate, is that a problem? I get the feeling that it's being somehow seen as against the parents to assume the PI is accurate. I don't think I understand the implications of a Thurs arrival date. (I'm thinking there must be implications because it's being so hotly debated!) Is it that it would imply that the parents lied? Genuine question.


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And since the P.I. was HIRED by the parents (IIRC) it seems odd that his account of the arrival date should be seen as reflecting negatively on the parents. :dunno:

 

[jmcgladr]

Wasn't that news report very early on into this investigation though, when few facts were known? The reporter may have simply not known that they arrived the night before, if that is indeed the case.

(sorry, that was meant to be in reply to kammiemc, just to clarify)

 

[ClaireNC]

Where would you have slept if you arrived at 930? I need light to set up my tents..heck even then sometimes its hard. So did they set up that night or the next day? Where would they have slept? You wouldnt want your 2 yr old son wandering around the campsite at night while you pitch a tent right? Just asking..I mean this was a primitive site, no street lights etc.

We used to camp often when our children were toddlers, small children and teens. We typically arrived at the campground after dark, since we out for our destination after finishing work. That way we would have a fresh start on a new day in the morning at the campground. We just used our truck headlights to set up the camp. And often the children would sleep through the setting up process and we would just move them into their sleeping bags in the tent.

 

[Cardinal47]

I still think it's the baby - people refer to their children as being filthy/dirty when they've been playing outside or in something messy. I don't know that I frequently hear people refer to their husbands or other men as filthy/dirty - it's much more derogatory to call an adult filthy than a a child. Children are expected to be dirty at times...

In addition, she uses the word gentleman to describe the man. I would not think a gentleman would also be filthy. The whole context of the story is that they claim it's DK and baby Deorr. Was DK filthy for some reason? Why would DK be described as filthy?

Actually I would like to read what the woman actually said. Does anybody happen to have a link I can refer too. Thank you.

 

[kammiemc]

Thanks Kammiemc. I also don't understand the possible implications of them arriving on Thursday and how that is construed as being disrespectful to the parents. In fact, to me it makes the trip to the store on Friday more believable.

Me too. People leave for camping trips in the afternoon all the time. It wouldn't be the first time a reporter got something wrong. Maybe a Fri arrival is better because that's what we originally believed, and it's uncomfortable to accept that what we think we know may not so.


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[travelbug]

JMHO
The reality is that whether the time/date was Thursday night or Friday morning should not even require a question mark. We are talking about a missing 2 year old child. The parents are under tremendous stress when they find their child missing. The responsibility for assuring the public has an accurate timeline falls upon LE. They do the initial investigating, they sort the wheat from the chaff, they work out the contradictory statements and information, they calmly determine the facts and THEN they share with the public what is necessary to safeguard the best interests of the child.

This disappearance began as a lost child, then moved to a potentially injured or deceased child and then to a possible abduction. The timeline is critical with a missing child. No one should have to guess at the facts. I find the process LE followed in the case to be lacking in many areas. The scene was not immediately secured, it does not appear that any investigation of the campsite was initially done, they failed to provide accurate information regarding the details of the disappearance and they never did release the names of all people who are still on the POI list.

As a result we have a missing poster with an incorrect eye color for Deorr, no vehicle information, a POI at the scene and unidentified for several days (allowing for the possible, non-monitored, transport of Deorr, a still unnamed POI who is considered fragile and yet is able to drive several hours to a campground, no official timeline and no official advisories from LE. :gaah:

 

[kammiemc]

Actually I would like to read what the woman actually said. Does anybody happen to have a link I can refer too. Thank you.

ALL that exists about that rumor is the info provided by mother and father in their interview. There is no link to what the clerk said. It's just a rumor, and in all honesty, the clerk might have never said Anything to anyone.


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[ILOKAL]

No one said they 'waited' until 1 pm to set up the camp though. They were busy all of that time. If they went to sleep when they arrived, and then got up , used the restroom, washed up and ate some breakfast, it would have been close to 10 or 11. So then if they needed to go into town it would have been around 1 pm when they returned. So it makes perfect sense to me that they began the set up at that time. But GGP and friend had already been there and were already setting up.

What makes NO SENSE to me is them arriving on Friday morning. If they had driven 2 and a half hours from home, and then driven an hour or more to the store and back, then NO WAY that the 2 yr old would be ready for his nap. he would have slept already. You cannot keep a 2 yr old in a moving car for 4 or 5 hours without him falling asleep, imo.

A sensible time to leave their home Friday morning would be about 7:00 which would put their ETA at around 9:30 AM. You can't POSSIBLY know what their child would or would not due regarding sleeping or dosing while traveling. We have five children and more grand children than can be counted on both hands and no two were alike when it came to travel. We are raising our 7-yr old grandson who has traveled all over with us from the time he was born. He NEVER fell asleep in the car in the morning . . . . ONLY in the afternoon and after lunch.

 

[babyback]

JMHO
The reality is that whether the time/date was Thursday night or Friday morning should not even require a question mark. We are talking about a missing 2 year old child. The parents are under tremendous stress when they find their child missing. The responsibility for assuring the public has an accurate timeline falls upon LE. They do the initial investigating, they sort the wheat from the chaff, they work out the contradictory statements and information, they calmly determine the facts and THEN they share with the public what is necessary to safeguard the best interests of the child.

This disappearance began as a lost child, then moved to a potentially injured or deceased child and then to a possible abduction. The timeline is critical with a missing child. No one should have to guess at the facts. I find the process LE followed in the case to be lacking in many areas. The scene was not immediately secured, it does not appear that any investigation of the campsite was initially done, they failed to provide accurate information regarding the details of the disappearance and they never did release the names of all people who are still on the POI list.

As a result we have a missing poster with an incorrect eye color for Deorr, no vehicle information, a POI at the scene and unidentified for several days (allowing for the possible, non-monitored, transport of Deorr, a still unnamed POI who is considered fragile and yet is able to drive several hours to a campground, no official timeline and no official advisories from LE. :gaah:

Those things that you've said, that I've put in bold print are the things that make me go hmmm. Those are the first things that should be done in any missing persons investigation. I'm sorry, if you're trying to find a missing child, that eye color listed correctly is mandatory!!!

 

[travelbug]

Actually I would like to read what the woman actually said. Does anybody happen to have a link I can refer too. Thank you.

Here is the unedited video that I posted above. Mom specifically says the rumor was about "a gentleman and a really filthy little boy who was bawling".
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/

I have copied my earlier post and the link, so you can listen to JM telling us what was said.

 

[katydid23]

A sensible time to leave their home Friday morning would be about 7:00 which would put their ETA at around 9:30 AM. You can't POSSIBLY know what their child would or would not due regarding sleeping or dosing while traveling. We have five children and more grand children than can be counted on both hands and no two were alike when it came to travel. We are raising our 7-yr old grandson who has traveled all over with us from the time he was born. He NEVER fell asleep in the car in the morning . . . . ONLY in the afternoon and after lunch.

Maybe 7 am is a sensible time to you to leave on a family vacation. But we never did that. We usually left when my husband got home from work and arrived the first night. It always felt like we had more vacation time to wake up that first morning already at the destination point. So I guess everyone is different.

My kids always fell asleep on long drives. Even in the mornings if it was 4 or 5 hours of driving, as this would have been. But as you say, every child is different.