ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[babyback]

But rumor has it, it was stolen Saturday afternoon.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

That's the problem with rumors. On another note, I'm wondering if they ALL arrived at the campground together late Sat. Were they doing a caravan? Just asking. None of us know the answer of course.

 

[relay]

In the unedited version at at 8:50, the Sheriff admits that absolutely nothing has been ruled out. The sheriff plus other LE may have developed a hierarchy in terms of what they believe are the most likely scenarios which took place, but nothing has been ruled out. While disappointing, I am glad they are remaining open-minded and have not ruled anything out because at least what they have been willing to talk about so far makes me also think nothing can be ruled out-----yet.

 

[wondering25]

In the UNEDITED version he said the vehicles were searched several times just in case they missed a compartment or something where Deorr could be ( paraphrasing). He also said physical evidence was turned over (he didnt say what that was). Could they have found a blood spot, hairs, a urine spot from deorr in a vehicle ..on a carpet etc.. or something else.. chloroform, needles, some kind of odd restraint, duct tape, rope?? What physical evidence did they find that was worthy enough to turn over? Was it at the campsite itself.. in a vehicle.. or at the home of either Deorr or IR? JMO

Correct me if i am wrong.. but in the new UNEDITED version did they NOT leave out the part about the hunters finding him during hunting season? JMO

 

[starfire]

Since the friend commented in his interview "I was told he disappeared", it made me question two things.

Why would he say he was told to say that? At the campsite was he high or drunk? Does he know what happened, but due to the state he was in, his word is not acceptable until LE has 100% proof?

I believe he actually said "As far as I know he disappeared" (which does kind of sound like it's not necessarily firsthand info)

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I've done quick map that likely has errors. This is just to throw ideas around based on Sheriff Bowermans descriptions in the interview.

Black= Camp site/GGP
Red= Parents
Small Orange= IR
Large Orange= Road above camp that Deorr Sr didn't know was there?

Please correct away.

 

[haven71]

I also talked about scent dogs in my long post that got buried quickly due to this thread flying with replies.

Anyway, from what I understand, there are cadaver dogs, ground tracking dogs, and air scenting dogs. Air scenting dogs do not sniff the belongings of the person they're trying to find, nor do they have their noses to the ground like regular tracking dogs. They can follow anyone's scent! They track human scent by air, and the amount of people in that area leave human scents too, which complicates things obviously.

 

[travelbug]

If there is a family connection here, couldn't the Sheriff have not taken the case due to conflict of interest?

The call to 911 determines what agency responds. The Sheriff would be placed in the awkward position without necessarily knowing who the missing child was. He would have no reason to believe any sort of crime may have been committed. No one knows if any crime has been committed, but handing all investigative evidence over to the FBI was a very astute thing to do. :moo:

 

[ClaireNC]

In the UNEDITED version he said the vehicles were searched several times just in case they missed a compartment or something where Deorr could be ( paraphrasing). He also said physical evidence was turned over (he didnt say what that was). Could they have found a blood spot, hairs, a urine spot from deorr in a vehicle ..on a carpet etc.. or something else.. chloroform, needles, some kind of odd restraint, duct tape, rope?? What physical evidence did they find that was worthy enough to turn over? Was it at the campsite itself.. in a vehicle.. or at the home of either Deorr or IR? JMO

Correct me if i am wrong.. but in the new UNEDITED version did they NOT leave out the part about the hunters finding him during hunting season? JMO

Interesting, I got a completely different vibe from the comments about them searching the vehicles. When he said that searched the vehicles rechecking compartments, etc. I got the impression that they only searched the vehicles to see if DeOrr was in them. I wonder if they even did a forensic search. Maybe that was one of the things that the FBI did when they arrived, but that would have been a few weeks after he went missing.

And...yes I do think they left the part out about the hunters finding him. Odd, if it's supposed to be UNEDITED.

 

[relay]

I also talked about scent dogs in my long post that got buried quickly due to this thread flying with replies.

Anyway, from what I understand, there are cadaver dogs, ground tracking dogs, and air scenting dogs. Air scenting dogs do not sniff the belongings of the person they're trying to find, nor do they have their noses to the ground like regular tracking dogs. They can follow anyone's scent! They track human scent by air, and the amount of people in that area leave human scents too, which complicates things obviously.

Air scenting dogs and trailing dogs can be taught to discriminate and be given a personal article to get the scent. Tracking dogs rely on the changes in the microbes in the ground to track footsteps/movement and not on the human sent, although tracking dogs can also be given an article to get a scent.

 

[MJ1960]

Long time reader, first time poster! Regarding the full interview, the sheriff says something along the lines of them finding out the day after the cremains were scattered that it had actually happened, and from a ranger. Does anyone know if the person who scattered the remains has been identified and interviewed?

Also, in addition to vehicles and homes being searched, could it be possible that computers, phone records, smartphones were searched too?

Additionally: in the "unedited" (there were splices) interview, did anyone else notice the deputy shifting as if to add something or correct the sheriff after he said that nothing was found?

Thanks, been following this sad story since I heard it in the news the Monday after little Deorr went missing. I am heartbroken for that mama and papa, and pray every day for their sweet boy to return to them safe and unharmed.

 

[relay]

I also talked about scent dogs in my long post that got buried quickly due to this thread flying with replies.

Anyway, from what I understand, there are cadaver dogs, ground tracking dogs, and air scenting dogs. Air scenting dogs do not sniff the belongings of the person they're trying to find, nor do they have their noses to the ground like regular tracking dogs. They can follow anyone's scent! They track human scent by air, and the amount of people in that area leave human scents too, which complicates things obviously.

Air scenting dogs and trailing dogs can be taught to discriminate and be given a personal article to get the scent. Tracking dogs rely on the changes in the microbes in the ground to track footsteps/movement and not on the human sent, although tracking dogs can also be given an article to get a scent.

 

[katydid23]

But rumor has it, it was stolen Saturday afternoon.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

RIGHT. But maybe someone was moving the evidence on Saturday.

 

[MJ1960]

Long time reader, first time poster! Regarding the full interview, the sheriff says something along the lines of them finding out the day after the cremains were scattered that it had actually happened, and from a ranger. Does anyone know if the person who scattered the remains has been identified and interviewed?

Also, in addition to vehicles and homes being searched, could it be possible that computers, phone records, smartphones were searched too?

Additionally: in the "unedited" (there were splices) interview, did anyone else notice the deputy shifting as if to add something or correct the sheriff after he said that nothing was found?

Thanks, been following this sad story since I heard it in the news the Monday after little Deorr went missing. I am heartbroken for that mama and papa, and pray every day for their sweet boy to return to them safe and unharmed.

 

[starfire]

I saw video of Deorr Sr. driving an ATV during the search. Does anyone know if he had it while camping or if it was brought in after little Deorr went missing?

Awhile back I was looking into some of the (eventual deadend) roads/trails that fork off the road that leads into the campground, and I recall that one of them was referred to as a "gated mining road". It may have been out of the 3 mile search radius, but I wonder if any mine shafts are in the area.

 

[pepelepolecat]

That's the problem with rumors. On another note, I'm wondering if they ALL arrived at the campground together late Sat. Were they doing a caravan? Just asking. None of us know the answer of course.

Who all arrived late Saturday? The searchers? I was under the impression there were searchers by Friday afternoon, but I could be wrong.

 

[desert-blue]

I've done quick map that likely has errors. This is just to throw ideas around based on Sheriff Bowermans descriptions in the interview.

Black= Camp site/GGP
Red= Parents
Small Orange= IR
Large Orange= Road above camp that Deorr Sr didn't know was there?

Please correct away.

If the reservoir is higher, wouldn't the stream be flowing out of the reservoir here? IR was downstream from the parents, if I'm not mistaken, so his star would need to be downstream ("up" on this map) from the parent's star. I think. I might be confused...

 

[wondering25]

Interesting, I got a completely different vibe from the comments about them searching the vehicles. When he said that searched the vehicles rechecking compartments, etc. I got the impression that they only searched the vehicles to see if DeOrr was in them. I wonder if they even did a forensic search. Maybe that was one of the things that the FBI did when they arrived, but that would have been a few weeks after he went missing.

And...yes I do think they left the part out about the hunters finding him. Odd, if it's supposed to be UNEDITED.

I felt the same way you did.. that they checked the compartments in the vehicles looking for Deorr.. but I DO wonder if the FBI also checked them or the sheriff went back a second time not just to double check for Deorr but to collect something they saw? From the sheriff's comments the vehicles were rechecked... seems as though proximate to the disappearance.. looking for him x2 at least (trunks, under engine hoods who knows) but certainly a forensic exam may have been done either time or by the FBI..and also all the homes involved with the POI.JMO Wonder why they left out the part about hunting season starting and hunters might find deorr then? It was an indelicate remark but it WAS part of the original interview. JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

I dunno. Seems almost the same to me. 99% sure vs not %100 percent. Either way, he has trouble committing to it completely. The point is, saying 99% sure opens the comment up to question it. At least for me. I don't feel the sherrif is quite as inept as some (not you[emoji4])may think. He's being uber cautious for a reason I think.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I agree the sheriff is mincing his words. I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI assisted him with his responses. He may have also had a list of what questions would be asked. I don't believe he COULD say 100% but wanted the message of 99% to be relayed as significant. No, the sheriff is in no way inept and it sounds as though he believes the answers he "seems" to be looking for will be forthcoming. IMO

 

[Arnie M]

0ver 8000 posts in 38 days ... lets be practical and logical for a minute

Abductions are rare , and they are usually done by family members disputing custody issues, none of which apply to the Kunz situation

Abduction by strangers is extremely rare , and those type of kidnappers do not lurk in a remote forest campsite where family is within 50 feet and several people have a view of the only road in or out.

If DeOrr climbed the steep hill thru the forest up to the other road , and a random stranger-kidnapper just happened to be there at the exact time is about as possible as a Sasquatch harvesting blonde boys for a Friday barbecue

The child wandered away from adult supervision and is most likely still there somewhere . Many children go missing in campgrounds , and most often they are 2 to 3 year olds , and the ones that are found traveled surprisingly long distances from where they were last seen

Search dogs are not infallible , if they were , we could send all the searchers home , park all our vehicles and helicopters , and just send in a couple of dogs and handlers.

Compile a list of missing people found by dogs and it will be a small list , Cadaver dogs is another matter , it is a specific scent that transmits for weeks and months and a natural for dogs to pick up.

One of the very best tools for finding a living person is heat sensing equipment in a helicopter at night shortly after the disappearance , this has been done with no results which means the child is deceased and most likely under water. If the dogs were reliable they also indicated a scent to the waters edge

No matter how well that creek was searched , there can be hidden cavities around boulders or even under the shoreline , especially if there are beavers , they sometimes tunnel into the banks below the surface.

 

[babyback]

Who all arrived late Saturday? The searchers? I was under the impression there were searchers by Friday afternoon, but I could be wrong.

So sorry I misspoke there, my mind was going a mile a min and my fingers typed lol.

I meant to say on Thursday evening.