ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[ClaireNC]

The reporter has responded to some comments at the bottom of the article. Apparently, the article includes some details that were said off camera. That might be where the "may be found by hunters" came from. http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[Cardinal47]

So I just finished watching the unedited video version of the new Idaho Newspaper article.

Sometime ago I was watching a program on tv and I remember them talking about head movement. So I watched the sheriff real close.

Thinking back I believe it was a guest on the NG show.

Anyway the person said to always watch the person talking's head. So I watched the sheriff and it's interesting when he talks in the positive but shakes his head NO.

If you get a chance take another look at that video. It's interesting to watch.

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video]

 

[starfire]

Couldn't someone dispose of/hide/bury evidence within that 3 mile zone? Maybe even move the evidence at a later time while pretending to search?

Yes, and they could have gone outside the 3 mile zone if they had enough time and potentially a vehicle (ATV, truck).

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

I saw video of Deorr Sr. driving an ATV during the search. Does anyone know if he had it while camping or if it was brought in after little Deorr went missing?

Awhile back I was looking into some of the (eventual deadend) roads/trails that fork off the road that leads into the campground, and I recall that one of them was referred to as a "gated mining road". It may have been out of the 3 mile search radius, but I wonder if any mine shafts are in the area.

Yes I remember your post and wanted to comment on it after you brought up the "gated mining road". I wondered too if there were old mine shafts baby DeOrr could have fallen in. The deputy said in the uncut version "an almost 3 mile radius was searched"

 

[babyback]

The reservoir flows downhill into the creek.

 

[katydid23]

0ver 8000 posts in 38 days ... lets be practical and logical for a minute

Abductions are rare , and they are usually done by family members disputing custody issues, none of which apply to the Kunz situation

Abduction by strangers is extremely rare , and those type of kidnappers do not lurk in a remote forest campsite where family is within 50 feet and several people have a view of the only road in or out.

If DeOrr climbed the steep hill thru the forest up to the other road , and a random stranger-kidnapper just happened to be there at the exact time is about as possible as a Sasquatch harvesting blonde boys for a Friday barbecue

The child wandered away from adult supervision and is most likely still there somewhere . Many children go missing in campgrounds , and most often they are 2 to 3 year olds , and the ones that are found traveled surprisingly long distances from where they were last seen

Search dogs are not infallible , if they were , we could send all the searchers home , park all our vehicles and helicopters , and just send in a couple of dogs and handlers.

Compile a list of missing people found by dogs and it will be a small list , Cadaver dogs is another matter , it is a specific scent that transmits for weeks and months and a natural for dogs to pick up.

One of the very best tools for finding a living person is heat sensing equipment in a helicopter at night shortly after the disappearance , this has been done with no results which means the child is deceased and most likely under water. If the dogs were reliable they also indicated a scent to the waters edge

No matter how well that creek was searched , there can be hidden cavities around boulders or even under the shoreline , especially if there are beavers , they sometimes tunnel into the banks below the surface.

"If DeOrr climbed the steep hill thru the forest up to the other road , and a random stranger-kidnapper just happened to be there at the exact time is about as possible as a Sasquatch harvesting blonde boys for a Friday barbecue"

What if DeOrr walked to the creekside and there was someone there, but not a random stranger? There is someone from the group that has been arrested for sexual assault, although he pled down to lesser charges. I just think it is hard to ignore the elephant in the living room sometimes.

 

[La Louve]

Yes I remember your post and wanted to comment on it after you brought up the "gated mining road". I wondered too if there were old mine shafts baby DeOrr could have fallen in. The deputy said in the uncut version "an almost 3 mile radius was searched"

I'd have to go back and search the earlier threads but IIRC I read here a while back that the Sheriff stated that the searchers had been apprised of any mine openings within the search grid.

 

[Cardinal47]

0ver 8000 posts in 38 days ... lets be practical and logical for a minute

Abductions are rare , and they are usually done by family members disputing custody issues, none of which apply to the Kunz situation

Abduction by strangers is extremely rare , and those type of kidnappers do not lurk in a remote forest campsite where family is within 50 feet and several people have a view of the only road in or out.

If DeOrr climbed the steep hill thru the forest up to the other road , and a random stranger-kidnapper just happened to be there at the exact time is about as possible as a Sasquatch harvesting blonde boys for a Friday barbecue

The child wandered away from adult supervision and is most likely still there somewhere . Many children go missing in campgrounds , and most often they are 2 to 3 year olds , and the ones that are found traveled surprisingly long distances from where they were last seen

Search dogs are not infallible , if they were , we could send all the searchers home , park all our vehicles and helicopters , and just send in a couple of dogs and handlers.

Compile a list of missing people found by dogs and it will be a small list , Cadaver dogs is another matter , it is a specific scent that transmits for weeks and months and a natural for dogs to pick up.

One of the very best tools for finding a living person is heat sensing equipment in a helicopter at night shortly after the disappearance , this has been done with no results which means the child is deceased and most likely under water. If the dogs were reliable they also indicated a scent to the waters edge

No matter how well that creek was searched , there can be hidden cavities around boulders or even under the shoreline , especially if there are beavers , they sometimes tunnel into the banks below the surface.

Hummm I have heard of folks draining spots like this when they believe strongly there is a body there. How hard would it be to do in this reservoir?

They have searched, dove, used sonar and flew over numerous times. They say the water is so clear you can see the bottom. (No link sorry it's just something I read.)

So I do believe if little DeOrr was in that water they would have found him or at lease one of his boots that were big and came off easily.

Does anybody happen to remember what kind of bottom this reservoir had? Silky or sand or rock??? TIA

 

[babyback]

"If DeOrr climbed the steep hill thru the forest up to the other road , and a random stranger-kidnapper just happened to be there at the exact time is about as possible as a Sasquatch harvesting blonde boys for a Friday barbecue"

What if DeOrr walked to the creekside and there was someone there, but not a random stranger? There is someone from the group that has been arrested for sexual assault, although he pled down to lesser charges. I just think it is hard to ignore the elephant in the living room sometimes.

Oh boy, I've been trying soooo hard not to go there. :truce:

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Thanks for the map. I had got utterly confused because when I put "Timber Creek campground Idaho" into google earth it brought up two separate sites. Is there another one with the same name?

 

[desert-blue]

When talking about the cremains in the unedited video, he says, "they deposited the cremains not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene."

 

[ILOKAL]

Did anyone else notice when talking about the cremains, the sheriff said the person dumping them didn't realize it was a crime scene?

Also I'm changing my mind (womans perogative), I think the sheriff seemed very tired and almost defeated at times. In the edited version it came across as inept. Jmo

I mentioned a few days ago that the woman wasn't aware either because she couldn't see or some other reason but couldn't remember where I had read that except I knew it was on WS?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Update map:

Black= Camp site/GGP
Red= Parents
Yellow= IR
Orange= Unseen road

*note* there is approx 200-300 feet between the four adults in this example. Double the claim.

 

[ClaireNC]

If the reservoir is higher, wouldn't the stream be flowing out of the reservoir here? IR was downstream from the parents, if I'm not mistaken, so his star would need to be downstream ("up" on this map) from the parent's star. I think. I might be confused...

I was just going to post the same thing. IR was downstream, which would be up on the map.

 

[Beezneez]

Things that really stick out to me in the unedited interview:
1. Obviously edited
2. The sheriff reminds me of the type of guy that knows way more than he lets on and is comfortable just keeping his mouth shut & seeing who fills the uncomfortable silence with nervous rambling information.
3. The other guy is less experienced, not as comfortable with publicly keeping things to himself.
4.There is mention of "stress situations" within the department, as well as the dedication of the searchers- it would be incredibly frustrating to have just enough information to KNOW what happened without having the evidence needed to legally act.
5. The sheriff mentions he had HIS search dog. If I understand* the general officer/dog relationship, then the dog lives and works with their officer. If the sheriff initially went up to the campground without the hundreds of searchers, he likely took his dog to sniff around. If that dog, initially, didn't hit on the kids scent trail... Why not? *Correct me if this isn't how it works!
6. Remember they called in drones to gather evidence for a possible future criminal investigation.
7. The sheriff also mentioned side-scan searching the water, which was mentioned earlier as being better than whatever scan was initially speculated on.
This is all my opinion. I think they are keeping an open mind, but I also feel like they have some strong suspicions. The FBI has access to greater labs, forensic experts and experience. LE giving them the evidence & hoping a hunter comes across the body is just a sad conclusion.

 

[Jules71]

My interpretation of the location:

Green x = campsite
Orange dot = Jr going over bank
Red dot = mom and dad (upstream, and shown on video of campsite by Nate motioning they went that way)
Lavendar dot = Issac (guestimate downstream as indicated in recent video)

Pink line = close to 172 going in/out of upper campground & reservoir

Yellow dots = road dad didn't know about
Yellow x = searchers parked to search reservoir
Blue x = possible location of cremains dumper

Where Deorr went over bank:

Direction mom and dad went:

Showing again the direction mom and dad went:

Yellow x on map location:

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[Arnie M]

.

For all practical purposes Cremated remains are sterile ashes without odor

A normal tracking dog searches for a live person , or the recent path of a living person , and a ton of ashes would not confuse the dog

A Cadaver dog follows the scent of a decaying human body , and the scent has a long lifespan , and the scent of cremated remains would have absolutely no effect on the search

Time to end the cremains controversy. It is irrelevant . Best wishes.

 

[ClaireNC]

Update map:

Black= Camp site/GGP
Red= Parents
Yellow= IR
Orange= Unseen road

*note* there is approx 200-300 feet between the four adults in this example. Double the claim.

That is not where the stream is located. See this map I posted a few weeks ago. This map is flipped around with north facing down. The blue line is approximately where the creek is.

 

[Jules71]

.

For all practical purposes Cremated remains are sterile ashes without odor

A normal tracking dog searches for a live person , or the recent path of a living person , and a ton of ashes would not confuse the dog

A Cadaver dog follows the scent of a decaying human body , and the scent has a long lifespan , and the scent of cremated remains would have absolutely no effect on the search

Time to end the cremains controversy. It is irrelevant . Best wishes.

Then wth does the Sheriff mean it confused the dogs? Is DeOrr in the reservoir?

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[CatsInTheCradle]

When talking about the cremains in the unedited video, he says, "they deposited the cremains not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene."

Yes I posted that earlier and no one seemed surprised so I thought it was just me that found it strange.