ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[SweetT]

Nice work RFK! One thing that stands out to me though - I wonder if the responses you received were all written by the same person.. The 3rd response sound more educated than the previous IMO. I don't know if this matters, it just stands out to me.

I am leaning toward the PI they hired being the one in charge of the site...but that is just my guess.

 

[ClaireNC]

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Infrared (Thermal Image) of the Boston Bomber hiding in a boat

There is a tarp covering the boat but his body heat shows through.

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Arnie, Thanks for posting the infrared images. The technology is pretty amazing. Do we know if they used it the first night of the search, that Friday night?

 

[wondering25]

Arnie, Thanks for posting the infrared images. The technology is pretty amazing. Do we know if they used it the first night of the search, that Friday night?

I agree.. It sure makes me think the baby is nowhere up there. So, my question remains.. ASSUMING he went to the store "as a family" with his parents.. did he make it back from the store? JMO

 

[ClaireNC]

I am leaning toward the PI they hired being the one in charge of the site...but that is just my guess.

The site is being run by a couple in Maryland. Their names and telephone numbers are on the website. The man claims to be friends with Deorr. Don't know if they knew each other before little Deorr disappeared. I don't think the PI has any connection to the website. Seems more like it is somebody trying to make money off of a really sad situation.

 

[Hatfield]

This case is a true stumper for me. I keep flip flopping with thinking the boy may have never gone to the campsite versus him making it there and some sort of accident.

To prove the boy made it to the campsite I would like to hear from the Sheriff that all the camping stuff was setup when they arrived. Tents, fire pit hot, sleeping bags, where was the boy sleeping Thursday night, food, fishing equipment, bait, and on and on.

When you go camping there is just tons of stuff you need and if they arrived Thursday night then all that stuff should have been spread out and used by Friday. So it would have been nice to get that confirmation. I haven't heard about any of the camping site details and camping stuff.

The only witness to the boy being there was the clerk in the store and the 6 PM timeframe had to fit in somewhere unless her account is going to be thrown out. I haven't thrown out her account because there is nothing to prove she was wrong. I find it strange that her story just kind of was dropped. I have to think she saw the boy and if 6 PM is accurate then it means she saw him Thursday or Friday night at 6 PM. The store receipts can be matched up to her story. This is fairly easy to confirm her story to at least prove someone bought something at her store around 6 PM.

 

[Hatfield]

See when the Sheriff arrived after the 911 call, then all that camping stuff should have all been spread out and used by Friday morning when he arrived. It should have looked like a used campsite with sleeping arrangements, hot fire coals, food, fishing stuff, trash, and on and on.

Just wish the sheriff would have told us all those details about what the campsite looked like when he got there. Nobody should have been preparing to leave by the 911 call and searchers arriving.

It would have gave us a much better picture of the layout and give confidence that the boy did sleep with them on Thursday night at the campsite. The campsite should have looked very used and everything should have all been spread out and being used.

 

[relay]

Actually, after the lion has carried or dragged his kill to a hidden place and begins the methodical eating ritual, he often then MOVES the kill to a different location and covers it to hide it from other predators and to keep the kill fresh.

That is what I've been trying to get across as well. I have not ruled out anything yet and neither has LE. So I remain open-minded to this terrible scenario as well as all others that have not been ruled out, and I remain open-minded to new possible scenarios and research every singe one because something made him disappear, and I believe following up on every possibility with an open mind may be key to finding this sweet baby.

 

[relay]

I suspect once the sheriff heard about the cremains and since the divers/searchers had not turned up anything in the reservoir, he dismissed the dogs alerting to the reservoir. Not good. But then again, DeOrr probably would have surfaced by now if he was there.

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I hope the Sheriff did not dismiss and negate the SAR dogs solely because of the cremains having been spread in the reservoir. Just because the cremains were spread there does not mean that Deorr is not in that body of water.

 

[desert-blue]

I agree.. It sure makes me think the baby is nowhere up there. So, my question remains.. ASSUMING he went to the store "as a family" with his parents.. did he make it back from the store? JMO

That's where I'm hung up also. I am wondering if they camped in a different location Thursday - maybe just pulled off somewhere closer to Leadore to sleep for the night - since it was late when they got there. If they went from that location to the store on Friday morning and then up to Timber Creek campground, but something happened before they got to the campground, then that might explain why no scent (and no trace of anything) was found at the campground? Also, the sheriff said he was 99% sure Deorr was at the campground, but whether he was alive or not, is a different story. MOO.

I'm finding the story of all 4 adults being within 150' of each other and a child vanishing in minutes without leaving a scent or any other trace within a 2 MILE radius really difficult to fathom - I just don't see how that could happen. I'd love to hear from great-grandpa. Again, MOO.

 

[ninij9]

I've been thinking about the six to eight weeks for the FBI to complete their investigation. What would they be working on that takes that long other than DNA evidence? Does anyone here have any ideas? TIA

No ideas rattling around in my head as to WHAT, but as to WHY...
Why do you have evidence to send to a lab when you are so sure he just wondered off?
Why do you have someones behavior to analyze if he just walked off and got lost?
Whose behavior are you analyzing if you feel all 4 POI are being truthful and you feel good about them?
I do believe the sherrif is trying his best not to tip his hand to who he really feels is involved. But we can see right through because we are taking the time to read, re-read and read between everything be us saying/not saying
I thought maybe the dirty diaper was sent for testing but in the case of the escaped convicts they had all of their poop analyzed in about a day.
But mark my words grasshoppers, they have SOMETHING!!!!!
JMO.
BTW, good morning! (Coffee kicked in)

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[ClaireNC]

See when the Sheriff arrived after the 911 call, then all that camping stuff should have all been spread out and used by Friday morning when he arrived. It should have looked like a used campsite with sleeping arrangements, hot fire coals, food, fishing stuff, trash, and on and on.

Just wish the sheriff would have told us all those details about what the campsite looked like when he got there. Nobody should have been preparing to leave by the 911 call and searchers arriving.

It would have gave us a much better picture of the layout and give confidence that the boy did sleep with them on Thursday night at the campsite. The campsite should have looked very used and everything should have all been spread out and being used.

I agree that it would be great if we got some info on how things were set up when SAR arrived. On the other hand, they might not be the type of people that spread things all over when they camp. It is rumored that little Deorr slept with his parents in the Suburban Thursday night. GGP had a camper and IR slept in a tent. They might have pulled up and just set up a few chairs around the campfire and called it a night.

As for having food and stuff out, they were camping in bear country and were likely keeping foodstuff and anything else that attracts bears in their vehicles or in the camper. They might not have gotten around to setting up their tent for Friday night or pulling out the sleeping bags or anything, just assuming the Deorr would nap in the truck or in GGP's camper.

You don't need a whole lot of equipment to fish. Just a fishing pole and some bait. Maybe a box of flies if they were fly fishing. Fishing poles and stuff could be just kept in the back of the pickup truck. It didn't need to be laying around.

I've camped in bear country and it is best to keep things stored away until you need them. I once had a bear walk off with a backpack that contained lunch while on a hike in the woods in PA. The back pack also contained my car keys! We found the backpack torn to shreds and luckily found the keys after hours of searching.

 

[Hatfield]

That's where I'm hung up also. I am wondering if they camped in a different location Thursday - maybe just pulled off somewhere closer to Leadore to sleep for the night - since it was late when they got there. If they went from that location to the store on Friday morning and then up to Timber Creek campground, but something happened before they got to the campground, then that might explain why no scent (and no trace of anything) was found at the campground? Also, the sheriff said he was 99% sure Deorr was at the campground, but whether he was alive or not, is a different story. MOO.

I'm finding the story of all 4 adults being within 150' of each other and a child vanishing in minutes without leaving a scent or any other trace within a 2 MILE radius really difficult to fathom - I just don't see how that could happen. I'd love to hear from great-grandpa. Again, MOO.

Agree.
Its just that things were so vague for us. I keep asking myself why were there not details provided by the sheriff for the simple stuff like the layout of the campsite and all the things he saw at the campground. We needed details to know what happened and from the very first interview we were not told enough to know what really happened.

We have only been told some people went camping and boy ended up missing.

That is not enough details to know exactly who got there, what times, where exactly everyone was, who slept with who, what did they eat for dinner, breakfast, etc.

I realize we may not get every single detail but the problem is we were provided NO details at all. Practically nothing. The sheriff did not help much with his interview. More of the same nothing

 

[kammiemc]

We know they got there on Thursday but I personally am STILL confused about exactly when and how they got to the campfire location where little Deoor went missing. If he was up and walking around the campfire location all morning then he could have walked all over the place but you would think his parents would know he walked to the reservoir and told the Sheriff! If they spent the night at another spot, had just gotten to the campfire location with the baby, went to do a little exploring and thats when the baby vanished then the dogs might have had a chance to do a clean trail. JMO.

I am curious why there is speculation that they moved campgrounds/campsites. The sheriff said they arrived Thurs at approx 9:30 PM. I take from that he means they arrived at the Timber Creek campsite, not somewhere else. It was not dark. It would have been right around sunset. They could have easily done some setting up of camp. So I don't see a reason that they'd need to pull over and crash or something.
Is there a reason some think they might have slept somewhere else on Thurs night? (Like an SM rumor? Or trying to make sense of why they originally said they arrived Fri?)

 

[Mickshawn]

That's where I'm hung up also. I am wondering if they camped in a different location Thursday - maybe just pulled off somewhere closer to Leadore to sleep for the night - since it was late when they got there. If they went from that location to the store on Friday morning and then up to Timber Creek campground, but something happened before they got to the campground, then that might explain why no scent (and no trace of anything) was found at the campground? Also, the sheriff said he was 99% sure Deorr was at the campground, but whether he was alive or not, is a different story. MOO.

I'm finding the story of all 4 adults being within 150' of each other and a child vanishing in minutes without leaving a scent or any other trace within a 2 MILE radius really difficult to fathom - I just don't see how that could happen. I'd love to hear from great-grandpa. Again, MOO.

Yes, would really love to hear from GGP. This sure is mysterious.

 

[desert-blue]

I am curious why there is speculation that they moved campgrounds/campsites. The sheriff said they arrived Thurs at approx 9:30 PM. I take from that he means they arrived at the Timber Creek campsite, not somewhere else. It was not dark. It would have been right around sunset. They could have easily done some setting up of camp. So I don't see a reason that they'd need to pull over and crash or something.
Is there a reason some think they might have slept somewhere else on Thurs night? (Like an SM rumor? Or trying to make sense of why they originally said they arrived Fri?)

The main reason I thought maybe they didn't sleep at Timber Creek campground is because there seems to be no trace of Deorr being at that campground. I guess that would also fit in with them saying that they arrived on Friday - meaning they arrived at Timber Creek campground. I haven't read anything on SM other than the supposed sleeping arrangements (parents and Deorr in the back of a rig, grandpa in a camper and IR in a tent). I am just trying to make sense of it all...

 

[dek]

I think the sheriff may be Colombo reincarnated. :thinking:

 

[kammiemc]

Send a hypothetical donation.

While a mountain lion may have jumped over a fence with a 28 lb dog, that doesn't mean it did so without the dog's body ever touching the fence or the ground. The cat is not going to run for 2.5 miles holding a child in its teeth with its head held up in the air so that nothing touches the ground. It just didn't happen.

The only animal that could carry the child away without dragging him on the ground is a human. The same one that carried off his boots too.

Sheriff says he is 99% sure the child was at the campsite and is 100% sure he was not in the creek. I am 100% sure it was not a mountain lion, bear, wolf or coyote attack. Any of those animals would claw and bite to kill, leaving blood somewhere and they don't drag the kill 2.5 miles away before stopping to eat. Coyotes hunt at night, as do wolves and both hunt in packs. Coyotes yip,yip,yip after a kill and you can hear it for miles around. Wolves would have been howling at night. Bears and cats are lazy and eat where they make the kill unless frightened away or their kill is threatened. Even then they don't go far and after they eat their fill, if there is anything left, they hang around the kill to protect it so the helicopter with infra red would have picked up the animal in the area. The helicopter picking up only a lone wolf just doesn't convince me that animal attack is even a possibility. It may be under other circumstances but this one doesn't fit.

This is a human event.

Very sound logic! I felt uncertain about whether an animal could be involved (was hoping, just because it's the least depressing possibility), but now it seems pretty clear that it's not a possibility and I understand why the sheriff dismisses it. I really believe he knows what he's talking about. He wouldn't dismiss animal or water if he didn't have good reason.

Human event + abduction being least likely scenario = not good

 

[kammiemc]

The main reason I thought maybe they didn't sleep at Timber Creek campground is because there seems to be no trace of Deorr being at that campground. I guess that would also fit in with them saying that they arrived on Friday - meaning they arrived at Timber Creek campground. I haven't read anything on SM other than the supposed sleeping arrangements (parents and Deorr in the back of a rig, grandpa in a camper and IR in a tent). I am just trying to make sense of it all...

Got it. Nothing makes much sense in this case, so we have to reverse engineer to make things align!
Sorry, one more question before I'm off to work. Was it ever said that the dogs didn't pick up little DeOrr's scent around the campground. There seems to be a lot of murkiness around the dogs. I am thinking if the sheriff is 99% sure that DeOrr was there that the dogs must have picked up on something at the site beyond the vehicles. Anyone know?

 

[ILOKAL]

I agree.. It sure makes me think the baby is nowhere up there. So, my question remains.. ASSUMING he went to the store "as a family" with his parents.. did he make it back from the store? JMO

As amazing as the infrared helicopter searches ARE, and they certainly ARE amazing, they aren't the be all end all of locating missing persons. That's why they still do ground searches and canine searches. IMO

 

[ClaireNC]

Got it. Nothing makes much sense in this case, so we have to reverse engineer to make things align!
Sorry, one more question before I'm off to work. Was it ever said that the dogs didn't pick up little DeOrr's scent around the campground. There seems to be a lot of murkiness around the dogs. I am thinking if the sheriff is 99% sure that DeOrr was there that the dogs must have picked up on something at the site beyond the vehicles. Anyone know?

I think JanTex did a post that linked various comments that were made about the dogs. I've been working a lot so I haven't had time to read it and don't have time to go dig it up now. It is definitely a murky area and would be worth going back and summarizing any comments that were made about the dogs.

Just putting this here as a reminder to myself to check into when I have time and in case somebody else wants to dig into it in the mean time.