ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[Onebest]

Great info. I know you can't say for certain, but based on the tracking dogs going to the reservoir, would it be reasonable for LE to surmise that the toddler had been to the reservoir (and perhaps back to the campsite) at some point?

Yup, and you would think that parents would know the answer to that right?

 

[kammiemc]

This for some reason jogs my memory that somewhere I heard mention of the Snake River. But I thought the Salmon River is what connected directly to Timber Creek . I don't have time now to look but when I do I'll check it out on a map. I just distinctly remember hearing a reference to the Snake River, probably nothing but now I'm wondering if it could have been a Freudian slip? But that depends on where I heard it. Ok, gotta go, but if anyone else remembers this, TIA ... or I'll look it up later.

It's a real river. It has rapids. I remember my dad going to down it on a trip when I was little. The Snake River. Sounds sinister, no?

 

[Onebest]

Excuse me if this has already been asked and answered previously, I may have missed it, so much information hee from all of you it quite blows my mind.

Does anyone know what they used to provide the dogs with Deorr's scent.? I would guess some clothes, his blankie, but has it been said by LE ?

TYIA.

Yes, you are correct Jesse and Jackee...There in lies the cunundrum and its always an issue with trailing, you want a scent article that is not contaminated by anyone else and how can that be possible with a baby? Answer, they would do the best they could and obviously know more then we do on what was chosen to scent the dogs on. I do trust the K9 Handlers in this situation. They are far more experienced then we are and would pull on every bit of knowledge they had to try to save this baby.

My heart breaks for the empty handed searchers too.

 

[ClaireNC]

This for some reason jogs my memory that somewhere I heard mention of the Snake River. But I thought the Salmon River is what connected directly to Timber Creek . I don't have time now to look but when I do I'll check it out on a map. I just distinctly remember hearing a reference to the Snake River, probably nothing but now I'm wondering if it could have been a Freudian slip? But that depends on where I heard it. Ok, gotta go, but if anyone else remembers this, TIA ... or I'll look it up later.

For some reason, Deorr said Snake River during the long interview when he was trying to say Salmon Search and Rescue. There was some discussion about it a while ago so that might be what you are remembering. Yes Timber Creek does run into the Lemhi River which runs into the Salmon River about 50 miles northwest from the campground. The Snake River runs through Idaho Falls, which is where Deorr and Jessica live.

 

[rkf]

Trailing/tracking K9's most likely are not trained on HRD or Cremains. We do NOT know the exact training of the K9's that were deployed rkf. If we did have it verified I could be more helpful. I have found information on the Sheriff's office K9 and Salmon PD but I do not know if I am allowed to sluth them for this site. If we are, I will write more about them specifically. However!! big however. It STILL won't answer all your questions because you want to know exactly when and how the dogs were utilized and we have not been informed. We were told that the Sheriff deployed their own K9 but if you listen to the tape it does not state exactly WHEN it just says they used them. Did they use them on the first visit up? Did they call for them the next day? We just don't know.

In a hypothetical search plan that I did for a call such as this I would post haste! deploy the trailing/tracking dogs from the camp sight immediately. (In my opinion the Sheriff probably did that)

Then I would also call out Air Scent K9's to work the forest around the campsite.(IMO he probably did that ASAP too with SAR resources)

Then if the information I got from the tracking dogs lead to a water source and I suspected drowning or?? I would deploy cadaver dogs for both the water and the surrounding area. (we KNOW he did that)

I might still keep running the Air Scent dogs in the forest but at that point tracking/trailing dogs no trail/too much contamination/not much they can do. JMO.

I hope they ran Cadaver dogs after the cremains dissipated but we have not been told.

They are NOT always interchangable. You got to know your dog teams. Some live find dogs are also trained in human remains but not all. When you deploy you are asked. I worked Oso with my cadaver dog and at every location I was asked "Live find or cadaver". Meaning, what is your dog trained to look for? SO based on how many days after the mud slide it was, the condition of the search area, the abilities of the K9 Team you have an idea of what information will be offered if anything. Usually Live find is always first! for obvious reasons. After so many days or when/IF the search is considered a recovery cadaver dogs are secondary resources.

Its just not cut and dried because there is so much information not being released. I wish I could be more helpful.

This is really helpful! I'll let someone who has spent less time on vacation answer if talking about the dogs is sleuthing. I'm still not 100% sure how to define it. Hypothetical discussions can be very informative, even if they are not exact matches for the case IMO. It's possible I've misinterpreted his words in the interview, but it sounds to me like the Sheriff and Salmon SAR had their tracking dogs up there the day of the 911 call.

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video] @ 1:42.

 

[Onebest]

My honest opinion is IF the dogs were scented on the baby's scent and IF they were following his trail then YES, its reasonable to surmise. I would bet its a painful question that keeps the searchers up at night, they wanted to find him alive so desperately. Its perhaps one of the hardest things I think.

 

[rkf]

The answer is in the webcams..JMO

Sorry to be dense - what webcams?

 

[kammiemc]

Yup, and you would think that parents would know the answer to that right?

Yes, you would think that. The simplest answer would be that the parents took little DeOrr to check out the reservoir either at sunset Thurs night or before (or after) the store trip on Fri. Only, if that were the case, you would also think that it would have been added to the timeline of events. (?)
DK said that little DeOrr couldn't walk himself up there. But maybe someone else walked him up there and the parents were not aware.

But if they did follow his scent, it also impacts the animal theory, because if the dogs could trace his scent to the reservoir, they should have been able to trace it if he were dragged (even partially dragged) somewhere, right?

I know the sheriff has very good reasons that an animal didn't take little DeOrr and completely trust those reasons, but I can so see it happening that it's hard to get it out of my mind as a possibility. My brother has spotted mountain lions in the Idaho mountains (not that far away). And even coyotes are predators. They killed a little boy (I believe six years old) recently in Montana--but they didn't disappear without a trace.

 

[renarde]

The answer is in the webcams..JMO

Does the Post Office across from the Stage Stop have cameras? That would be right at the intersection of 28 and the road that goes to the campsite.

Most post offices have cameras... although, maybe not in Leadore.

 

[rkf]

Yes, you are correct Jesse and Jackee...There in lies the cunundrum and its always an issue with trailing, you want a scent article that is not contaminated by anyone else and how can that be possible with a baby? Answer, they would do the best they could and obviously know more then we do on what was chosen to scent the dogs on. I do trust the K9 Handlers in this situation. They are far more experienced then we are and would pull on every bit of knowledge they had to try to save this baby.

My heart breaks for the empty handed searchers too.

Would a dirty diaper work? There was supposed to be one hanging in a tree from Friday morning.

 

[wondering25]

Sorry to be dense - what webcams?

webcam photos from the roads in were posted here. They were removed.. they showed at least one person.. the answer is in the webcams..jmo

 

[Mickshawn]

This for some reason jogs my memory that somewhere I heard mention of the Snake River. But I thought the Salmon River is what connected directly to Timber Creek . I don't have time now to look but when I do I'll check it out on a map. I just distinctly remember hearing a reference to the Snake River, probably nothing but now I'm wondering if it could have been a Freudian slip? But that depends on where I heard it. Ok, gotta go, but if anyone else remembers this, TIA ... or I'll look it up later.

Didn't DeOrr Sr. (dad) mention Snake River a few times (and kept correcting himself) in the original parent/Nate interview???

 

[Onebest]

This is really helpful! I'll let someone who has spent less time on vacation answer if talking about the dogs is sleuthing. I'm still not 100% sure how to define it. Hypothetical discussions can be very informative, even if they are not exact matches for the case IMO. It's possible I've misinterpreted his words in the interview, but it sounds to me like the Sheriff and Salmon SAR had their tracking dogs up there the day of the 911 call.

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video] @ 1:42.

No I don't think you are misinterpreting, I "think" that is what he says too but then again, he is being reeeeally careful about dates and we are searching for specifics.

You know, I think this Sheriff is amazing. He is not used to lime light, probably not been in it this way before. He does a good job on his interviews, trying to cover all his bases which cannot be easy.

Yes, Hypothetical I am not so good at too factual, too blunt at my age but if there was something I thought would really be helpful I of course would do anything. This little one has captured our hearts. Our best hope is to wait for FBI report and pray he will be found.

 

[rkf]

webcam photos from the roads in were posted here. They were removed.. they showed at least one person.. the answer is in the webcams..jmo

Are you sure they were removed? I'm the one who posted them. Those cameras only take a photo every 15 minutes, so it would take a huge bit of luck to catch something important on them. Maybe the highway department has different footage from what is on the website. They may have just been inaccessible while I was on time out.

 

[wondering25]

Are you sure they were removed? I'm the one who posted them. Those cameras only take a photo every 15 minutes, so it would take a huge bit of luck to catch something important on them. Maybe the highway department has different footage from what is on the website. They may have just been inaccessible while I was on time out.

I cant find them.. can you?

 

[ClaireNC]

Didn't DeOrr Sr. (dad) mention Snake River a few times (and kept correcting himself) in the original parent/Nate interview???

Yes he said Snake River when he was trying to say Salmon Search and Rescue. He stumbled over the words until he got it right.

 

[kammiemc]

No I don't think you are misinterpreting, I "think" that is what he says too but then again, he is being reeeeally careful about dates and we are searching for specifics.

You know, I think this Sheriff is amazing. He is not used to lime light, probably not been in it this way before. He does a good job on his interviews, trying to cover all his bases which cannot be easy.

Yes, Hypothetical I am not so good at too factual, too blunt at my age but if there was something I thought would really be helpful I of course would do anything. This little one has captured our hearts. Our best hope is to wait for FBI report and pray he will be found.

I am with you. I am really impressed. He seems like the real deal.

 

[kammiemc]

webcam photos from the roads in were posted here. They were removed.. they showed at least one person.. the answer is in the webcams..jmo

I am intrigued. Can you give a hint as to what this person being in one of the webcam shots might imply? I can't guess except if perhaps you are thinking that someone was spotted on that road at a time when they said they weren't there. Is that the gist?

 

[rkf]

I cant find them.. can you?

North view starting at post #847

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-7/page57

South view starting at Post #7
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...mpground-10-July-2015-8&highlight=Screen+Shot

 

[TeaTime]

Serious question: If everything you say is true, why would the sheriff state he thinks abduction is the least likely of all possible scenarios? Less likely than an animal attack, drowning (when he is 100% sure DeOrr is not in the creek or reservoir) or Sasquatch encounter?

My opinion is that the sheriff thinks, right or wrong, that DeOrr's disappearance is related to one of the "POIs" at the "crime scene".

Because I do not believe that any one of the POI's had anything to do with his disappearance. They all took polygraphs. Although we do not know the results, the Sheriff does and he said the FBI is going over them in case his team missed something. This tells me that they all passed the polys but have asked the FBI to look at them again, just in case. Sheriff says they are all cooperative and we have not heard that any of the POIs have been brought in for a grilling or two by LE, which would have happened had they failed the tests.

Sheriff says that abduction is the least likely because no one saw any vehicles or people coming in or out of the campground. I suggest that the abductor was on foot and the vehicle was parked elsewhere.

By process of elimination; he was there, he disappeared. Then ruling out the creek, the reservoir, an animal attack, wandering away on foot and the polys and cooperation of the POIs, there is only one possibility - abduction.