ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[kammiemc]

He's got COPD from a work related injury found in a lawsuit but I don't think he's got dementia according to TB.

Was it just a rumor that he was not named a POI originally due to physical and mental issues? (I haven't read anything on FB, so assumed (never assume!!!!) it was legit info. Maybe he doesn't have diminished mental capacity at all. In which case, I have to ask, why the heck didn't he make sure DeOrr met up with his parents when he went over the embankment, if he did?


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[pepelepolecat]

Was it just a rumor that he was not named a POI originally due to physical and mental issues? (I haven't read anything on FB, so assumed (never assume!!!!) it was legit info. Maybe he doesn't have diminished mental capacity at all. In which case, I have to ask, why the heck didn't he make sure DeOrr met up with his parents when he went over the embankment, if he did?


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I remember the mental and physical issues, too. And I really got the impression early on that he may have had something like dementia, but I don't remember if I actually read it or thought it. But I see other people talking about it, too ... and I feel like memory is playing an unfunny trick on several of us. The Mandela Effect?

(And all my rambling must be filed under "speculation")

 

[kammiemc]

I went back and looked at some of the articles to get an idea of when great-grandpa changed to person of interest.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/
July 27th
"Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are “persons of interest” in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case."

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/28/lemhi-search-deorr-kuna-persons-interest/30799181/
July 28th
"Bowerman also confirmed that Reinwand, as well as the boy's parents Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz are persons of interest in the case because they were at the scene. They are not being called suspects at this time."


Starting on July 31st, he began calling all four of them persons of interest:


http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html
July 31st
"Bowerman said everyone at the campsite is considered a person of interest in the case, however, none of them are suspects -- this includes the parents, the child's great-grandfather and family friend Isaac Reinwand."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/parents-of-deorr-kunz-we-pray-our-lil-man-will-be-found/
July 31st
Earlier this week, Bowerman told EastIdahoNews.com that DeOrr’s parents, great-grandfather and Reinwand are considered “persons of interest” because they were all at the campsite but, at this point, none of them are considered suspects.


On August 18th, he revealed that all four of them took polygraphs, which tells me that great-grandpa can't be too mentally deficient (although apparently IR took one also and we have seen firsthand how mentally aware he is...)

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/
August 18th
“All four have voluntarily taken polygraphs and right now they’ve been turned over to the FBI,” Bowerman said.

Not sure this tells us anything really. Just that sometime between the 27th and the 31st, the sheriff started to include great-grandpa as a person of interest. Also, the later articles also stop commenting on his declining physical and mental health. Perhaps his health issues were somewhat exaggerated at the beginning? I still don't think the great-grandpa had anything sinister to do with Deorr's disappearance. I just think they needed to include him because he was there and after receiving a speeding ticket on July 31st, people may have questioned how his health could be so debilitating that he could not even be considered a person of interest. MOO.

Thanks so much. I pulled this from the first article (which makes me feel less crazy!):

"The great-grandfather, who authorities have not identified, also has not been labeled as a suspect. Authorities said his declining physical and mental health ruled him out at the beginning of the case."

I might have just associated declining mental health with dementia because it's so prevalent. But interesting to k ow that the family says no dementia.



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[kammiemc]

If he has a mental condition beyond normal aging, such as dementia or Alzheimer's, I really don't think his family (or the law) would allow him to continue driving and/or have a valid driver's license (which he obviously has). People with those conditions get easily confused when driving and can't remember where they are going or how to get home - it can be very scary. I don't think that is the case here.

ETA: I agree with you - I don't think he has dementia either.

Mmmmm...I agree that he should not be driving if he has Alzheimer's or dementia but these are evolving conditions, and it can be a process to stop the driving. (Meaning sometimes people drive longer than they really should. So, at least in some cases of people I know, the driving is not a totally accurate barometer of the mental health.)


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[starfire]

I remember the mental and physical issues, too. And I really got the impression early on that he may have had something like dementia, but I don't remember if I actually read it or thought it. But I see other people talking about it, too ... and I feel like memory is playing an unfunny trick on several of us. The Mandela Effect?

(And all my rambling must be filed under "speculation")

The news quotes about the "declining physical and mental health" which supposedly "ruled out" the GGF from the very beginning were just posted in the past page or two. I think it is just speculation that the mental health issues GGF might have could be dementia or Alzheimer's. I am not sure what other mental health issues a person could have that might impact how LE views them as potentially involved in a crime. Regular old age couldn't be it, as many 76+ year olds are very sharp. Plus, GGF apparently took a polygraph and is still driving, which may or may not mean anything as far as his mental health.

Maybe the info that led to the article stating the GGF was "ruled out" from the beginning was misunderstood/confusing and mis-reported, who knows. It is also very possible that he was ruled out but is still a POI as he was supposedly the last person to see little Deorr and LE had and may still have questions for him. It sounds like some LE officials use a much "softer" meaning for POI than others, and maybe the Lemhi sheriff uses the soft meaning for POI (anyone who was there, etc). Obviously some LE use POI as a much more suspicious designation, such as the sheriff in the Dylan Redwine case when he announced Mark Redwine was a POI. His reasons were definitely not just because Mark was the last to see him. That POI designation was "based on evidence collected, inconsistent statements made by Mark Redwine, and his behavior throughout the investigation" according to the sheriff handling the case.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/08/...on-of-interest-in-the-death-of-his-son-dylan/

 

[Eileen730]

Mmmmm...I agree that he should not be driving if he has Alzheimer's or dementia but these are evolving conditions, and it can be a process to stop the driving. (Meaning sometimes people drive longer than they really should. So, at least in some cases of people I know, the driving is not a totally accurate barometer of the mental health.)


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Plus they would not give a man with dementia or Alzheimers a polygraph now would they?

 

[desert-blue]

The news quotes about the "declining physical and mental health" which supposedly "ruled out" the GGF from the very beginning were just posted in the past page or two. I think it is just speculation that the mental health issues GGF might have could be dementia or Alzheimer's. I am not sure what other mental health issues a person could have that might impact how LE views them as potentially involved in a crime. Regular old age couldn't be it, as many 76+ year olds are very sharp. Plus, GGF apparently took a polygraph and is still driving, which may or may not mean anything as far as his mental health.

Maybe the info that led to the article stating the GGF was "ruled out" from the beginning was misunderstood/confusing and mis-reported, who knows. It is also very possible that he was ruled out but is still a POI as he was supposedly the last person to see little Deorr and LE had and may still have questions for him. It sounds like some LE officials use a much "softer" meaning for POI than others, and maybe the Lemhi sheriff uses the soft meaning for POI (anyone who was there, etc). Obviously some LE use POI as a much more suspicious designation, such as the sheriff in the Dylan Redwine case when he announced Mark Redwine was a POI. His reasons were definitely not just because Mark was the last to see him. That POI designation was "based on evidence collected, inconsistent statements made by Mark Redwine, and his behavior throughout the investigation" according to the sheriff handling the case.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/08/...on-of-interest-in-the-death-of-his-son-dylan/

I think he was ruled out as a suspect early on which really ruled him out as a person of interest in the sense that most of us probably think of a POI. However, since the sheriff then called the other three people POI's and said it was based solely on them being there, he kind of had to back up and include great-grandpa as a POI. Otherwise, it would appear that the other three are somehow more suspicious than great-grandpa which might lead to false assumptions...

 

[katydid23]

Was it just a rumor that he was not named a POI originally due to physical and mental issues? (I haven't read anything on FB, so assumed (never assume!!!!) it was legit info. Maybe he doesn't have diminished mental capacity at all. In which case, I have to ask, why the heck didn't he make sure DeOrr met up with his parents when he went over the embankment, if he did?


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That is what I don't get either. If you see your 2 yr old GGS toddling over the bank towards a rushing creek, do you shrug and assume he found his parents? That makes no sense to me at all.

 

[kammiemc]

That is what I don't get either. If you see your 2 yr old GGS toddling over the bank towards a rushing creek, do you shrug and assume he found his parents? That makes no sense to me at all.

I think the only answer that makes any sense is that it didn't happen that way. I think a lot of things didn't happen the way they were relayed--beyond just the discrepancies we know about. But I am in a very skeptical mood based on where the case I am following has ended up. Paula88 knows what I am talking about!!


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[Arnie M]

.

It should be pointed out that if any one of us happened to be at the campsite that day we would also be A Person of Interest

It is a generic term that should not be interpreted as an indication of guilt or involvement

It is no different than if police said they are questioning every person in the area that day , or anyone involved with the family that day , same thing , no big deal .

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I think the only answer that makes any sense is that didn't happen that way. I think a lot of things didn't happen the way they were relayed--beyond just the discrepancies we know about. But I am in a very skeptical mood based on where the case I am following has ended up. Paula88 knows what I am talking about!!


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BBM.

Which case if you don't mind me asking..?

 

[bakerlady]

Sometimes I wonder if little Deorr was accidentally left in a hot car.

 

[wondering25]

.

It should be pointed out that if any one of us happened to be at the campsite that day we would also be A Person of Interest

It is a generic term that should not be interpreted as an indication of guilt or involvement

It is no different than if police said they are questioning every person in the area that day , or anyone involved with the family that day , same thing , no big deal .

I disagree. there is no "legal definition" of a person of interest. Because there is NOT one.. the sheriff put his own spin on it and made it up as he went along. Being in the area does not make one a person of interest. that was HIS double-talk, his verbal slight of hand and his way of letting everyone come to their own conclusions. JMO

 

[Bethan]

Sometimes I wonder if little Deorr was accidentally left in a hot car.

Now there's a thought!

I have just been re-reading the events surrounding Cooper Harris's tragic death and presume this case was widely publicised at the time.

Perhaps there was a dreadful accident, and a cover up, for fear of prosecution.


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[Paulas88]

BBM.

Which case if you don't mind me asking..?

Dr Teresa Sievers- arrest made, <modsnip>

 

[Eileen730]

Dr Teresa Sievers- arrest made, <modsnip>

Wow wow wow .
Im.very curious.
Thanks for the update.

 

[Sillybilly]

I disagree. there is no "legal definition" of a person of interest. Because there is NOT one.. the sheriff put his own spin on it and made it up as he went along. Being in the area does not make one a person of interest. that was HIS double-talk, his verbal slight of hand and his way of letting everyone come to their own conclusions. JMO

While there is no legal definition, it is very common usage in these cases. Being in the area DOES make one a person of interest until such time as they can be eliminated as having involvement. It's not just this particular sheriff's terminology.

 

[wondering25]

While there is no legal definition, it is very common usage in these cases. Being in the area DOES make one a person of interest until such time as they can be eliminated as having involvement. It's not just this particular sheriff's terminology.

Being in the area would make someone a witness or possible witness.. that has nothing to do with "being eliminated as having involvement". A POI is whatever definition someone wants to attach to it, apparently. JMO

 

[starfire]

.

It should be pointed out that if any one of us happened to be at the campsite that day we would also be A Person of Interest

It is a generic term that should not be interpreted as an indication of guilt or involvement

It is no different than if police said they are questioning every person in the area that day , or anyone involved with the family that day , same thing , no big deal .

Maybe (or maybe not) that is how it is meant in this particular case, but POI isn't a completely innocent "no big deal" phrase in all cases (such as with Mark Redwine's designation as POI, as I pointed out a page or so back).

 

[Cardinal47]

Yeah, this has been bothering me too, the case is basically cold, just waiting for
FBI info, the parents should be organizing searches, getting any media attention
they can, but nothing.

When the timeline (when family arrived) was being debated, IIRC, Jessica's Mother (I guess it might have been someone saying it was her mother) on FB wrote that they arrived Friday, and then went to store, and she had txt to prove, so it's weird that they really arrived Thursday night. (Odd) The other problem for me, is the PI mention of the old man starring at DeOrr that made Jessica nervous.... It was a smoke screen,(IMO) eluding or enforcing the abduction theory, why would the parents WANT to do that... Idk

There are a lot of Red Herrings in all of this and I don't know if it's the inexperience of a sheriff in such cases or that they know a lot and just can't, so far, prove it.

I do know there is a saying 'two can keep a secret if one of them is dead' keeps coming to mind.

MOO