ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #73

[Nikynoo]

Maybe it’s that the 911 calls were made after the failed “paintball” shooting. IIRC, the neighbor (son-in-law?) happened to be outside and made the first call.

Tammy had a low-risk lifestyle — long-married LDS librarian whose social engagement was focused on clogging/fitness, family and church activities. Who would serially stalk and murder her at her fairly rural house?*

Despite Lori and Alex having skated (at the time) on Alex’s murder, the conspirators would have realized that there would be major heat on Chad (the husband) if Tammy were shot and killed.

Much easier to stage a natural death, and they might have succeeded absent all the other murders and deaths.

My speculation only.

*No victim should be blamed. In Tammy’s case, the husband/life insurance beneficiary would have been under laser focus had she been murdered.

Yes, but AC continued to practice at the range - so why practice if the first failed attempt put them off?

 

[k-mac]

So why didn’t they go forward with another shooting? Why the change of plan? Could it be that Tammy was supposed to go out that evening and didn’t?

With Chad's get up and go...(lack of )

I reckon LVD was fed up with the failed attempts by Alex...
I have a vague memory of there being talk of Tammys car being tampered with.
Take it with a grain of salt though I can't elaborate where that idea comes from.
Means there was likely many undocumented attempts on Tammys life.

Knowing thad Chad moved straight into Lori's bed following the funeral.....I suspect the catalyst that got Chad doing his own dirty work......


LVD withholding sexual activity.

And doesn't that repulse you that little bit more.

 

[Kemug]

Most posters here seem to be looking at AB fairly kindly, seeing her as caring and kind. As I do too. But yes, gullible. And I think also rather lacking in self-confidence. Which (to me) explains why she didn't go to LE with her knowledge and worries - she probably had a lot of self-doubt, and couldn't quite believe what she knew.

 

[Kemug]

Yes, but AC continued to practice at the range - so why practice if the first failed attempt put them off?

Maybe he was anticipating being called upon many more times in the future to aid the God and Goddess.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This whole MP stuff is a mess. Seems like the punishment is a slap on the wrist. Everyone's thoughts?

Many times...I have stated MP got away with murder.

 

[Nikynoo]

Maybe he was anticipating being called upon many more times in the future to aid the God and Goddess.

but - AC didn't go again after Tammy's death.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Yes, but AC continued to practice at the range - so why practice if the first failed attempt put them off?

Other targets?

 

[cottonweaver]

About AB's shocking revelation at the end ...
1 Because of its "oh by the way" nature it was presented, coming up only on re-direct, and it never being mentioned when she testified to the GJ, if I was a juror it not only makes me doubt the truth of that testimony, but also want to reconsider the reliability everything she's testifying.
... As an aside, the nature of this testimony, and the fact it was hidden from the defense, and that they still allowed the testimony and witness into the trial, I think that has significant potential to be problematic later. Just saying.
2 This testimony as it was offered reminds me that AB, as well as all those others who are testifying, have an agenda of their own, especially when they are someone who ran in the circles of these on trial for multiple murders, people whose ideas about other humans are way out there. 'What can I say to distance myself from any personal blowback?'
3 I also can't see Lori, in the wake of Tammy's death, and while trying to keep kids' whereabouts under wraps, telling a friend bluntly that 'If you cross me, I'll kill you next.' That would have been the mindset that was supposedly conveyed. JMO.
4 At the same time, I do think Lori would be that dangerous, and not someone a person would be wise to cross. I do think she sees everyone as readily expendable.

I've just listened to the second part now.
Think Archibald did a good job, came across as a trial attorney who can cross- examine. It was well worth listening to. Think it was very exposing of AB.

However, if I was a juror though, knowing little about the case, I doubt I'd buy into this defense strategy - Chad the great manipulator of grown women, like LVD, AB, MG because I've already heard Lori on the podcast & AB doesn't sound that gullible. Misguided, yes.

I reckon that a statement analyst would have a field day with her testimony on the ' bombshell' threats during that cross and imo an acting coach - somebody like Mark from the Behaviour Panel - would say some of the emotion shown during Archibald's cross doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[aafromaa]

Most posters here seem to be looking at AB fairly kindly, seeing her as caring and kind. As I do too. But yes, gullible. And I think also rather lacking in self-confidence. Which (to me) explains why she didn't go to LE with her knowledge and worries - she probably had a lot of self-doubt, and couldn't quite believe what she knew.

I agree and also noticed that she still struggles with some of the things CD & LV told her even though she now knows better. When I listened to the audio (instead of just reading tweets) I noticed that when she was asked what she thought of CV when she met him her answer was he seemed nice…at the time. When asked if he seemed to be someone with a demon her answer was no…not when I met him. It seemed she was still leaving room for the possibility that he was not a nice guy and did have a demon or perhaps the demon came after she met him in Nov 2018 as she never saw him again. At least that’s how it sounded on audio to me.

 

[fred&edna]

I still believe CV's murder made LVD and AC feel empowered... if not for being so stupid and greedy... more deaths (after Tylee, JJ and TD) could have occurred.

 

[wnk]

So why didn’t they go forward with another shooting? Why the change of plan? Could it be that Tammy was supposed to go out that evening and didn’t?

I wondered that, too, listening to them list the times that AC went to the range. We don't really have a good sense of TD's movements between Oct 9-19, and I wonder if another opportunity just wasn't presenting itself. That would explain why LVD (in HI with MP & AB) was irritable. Maybe the plan still was to shoot TD, but LVD got impatient and talked them into smothering her as plan B.

 

[Gardenista]

Does anybody remember the date when ZP and MP talked about Lori saying that MP was going to have a bunch of money, so the group didn't have to worry about money? ZP said MP was hurt by that and I'm wondering if that was why LVD was snippy with MP in HI.

 

[Gardenista]

Here is IP's testimony from yesterday. For some reason, none of the other outlets I checked got his testimony from the court

 

[wnk]

SPEAKERS AT THE TRIAL (UPDATED THROUGH 3 MAY 2023)

LINDSEY BLAKE: STATE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statements - "The defendant used money, power, and sex to get what she wanted. It didn't matter what it was."

JAMES ARCHIBALD: DEFENSE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statements - "The evidence will show Lori was a kind and loving mother."


1- KAY WOODCOCK: STATE WITNESS, grandmother of JJ (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr10)
CV's life insurance (Feb 2019), JJ's disappearance (Aug 2019), wedding items on CV's Amazon account (Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that KW asked LVD to raise JJ

2- BRANDON BOUDREAUX: STATE WITNESS, ex-husb of LVD’s niece (summary 1, audio Apr10)
LE's initial involvement; attempted shooting from Jeep (Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: questions why MP thought BB was gay, questions BB’s observations of shooting

3 - RAY HERMOSILLO: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, audio Apr11, Apr12)
Jeep surveillance, welfare check & search warrants (Nov 2019), discovery of JJ & TR bodies (Jun 2020)
X-EXAM: questions whose weapons were in garage, establishes that LVD was in HI when TD died (19 Oct 2019)

4 - JARED WILLMORE: STATE WITNESS, Madison Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
CD & LVD prison phone call as bodies were discovered (Jun 2020)


--CD & LVD's AFFAIR (OCT 2018-OCT 2019)--

5 - JOE POWELL: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
surveillance on CD & LVD (Nov 2019), exhumation of TD's body (Dec 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that LVD was in HI when TD died (19 Oct 2019)

6 - MELANIE GIBB: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, audio Apr13) OBJ
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; CD & LVD's phone call with MG (Dec 2019), MG & DW's visit to LVD's on last day JJ was seen (22 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs, emphasizes all LVD did for her children

7 - NATHAN DUNCAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr13, Apr14)
shooting of CV (Jul 2019), CD's call to mortuary (Jul 2019), CD's blessing to AC (Jun 2019), "CV"'s email to CD & CV's emails to TD (Jun 2019), texts from CV to LVD (Jul 2019), texts between CD & LVD about CV's insurance (Jul 2019), AC's "2manykids" text to LVD (Sep 2019)

8 - ZULEMA PASTENES: STATE WITNESS, wife of AC (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr14, Apr18)
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; "Idiot can't do anything right by himself" on night TD was shot at (Oct 2019), "I think I'm being their fall guy" (Dec 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs

9 - COLBY RYAN: STATE WITNESS, son of LVD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18)
financial issues; prison phone call between CR & LVD (Jul? 2020)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs, emphasizes all LVD did for her children


---CV's DEATH (JUL 2019)---

10 - MIKE SAARI: STATE WITNESS, Social Security Administration (summary 1, audio Apr18)
social security payments

11 - CHUCK KUNSAITIS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18, Apr19)
bank statements, prescriptions, flights

12 - MIKE DOUGLASS: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, audio Apr19)
timelines of financials

13 - SCOTT COWDEN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler FD paramedic (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
AC did not provide CPR to CV after shooting (11 Jul 2019)

14 - AIREL WERTHER: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
following up with LVD after CV's death (11 Jul 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that AC called 911, establishes that JJ & TR were both with LVD day of shooting

15 - SANDRA YNCLAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
interviewed LVD & TD after CV's death (11 Jul 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that AC was not arrested after CV’s death

16 - APRIL RAYMOND: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, audio Apr19)
*exclusionary issue - listened to Jason Lum’s interview with a cousin of LVD
LVD & TR's stay in HI, LVD was "done with JJ" (Feb 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs

17 - NATHAN MOFFATT: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD (summary 1, audio Apr20) OBJ
CV’s death & inconsistencies in interviews (11 Jul 2019)


---MOVE TO REXBURG (SEP 2019)---

18 - SYDNEY WOODBURY SCHENK: STATE WITNESS, JJ’s babysitter (summary 1, audio Apr20)
Babysitting JJ (18-19 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that witness thought she would be babysitting JJ long-term

19 - JOSH WILSON: STATE WITNESS, Kennedy Elementary Principal (summary 1, audio Apr20)
JJ’s school attendance in Rexburg (3-20 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that witness thought JJ would be attending school there long-term

20 - WYNN HILL: STATE WITNESS, BYU-I Dean (summary 1, audio Apr20)
TR never applied or enrolled at BYU-I


---JJ & TYLEE'S DEATHS (SEP 2019)---

21 - DAVID WARWICK: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD & husband of MG (summary 1, audio Apr20)
*exclusionary issue - listened to 45m of wife MG’s testimony OBJ
Introduced to LVD by MG in AZ (Aug 2019), visit to LVD’s in Rexburg (20-23 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs/visions

22 - BRUCE MATTINGLY: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr20)
Seized electronic evidence from Daybell home (Jan 2020)

23 - BENJAMIN DEAN: STATE WITNESS, FBI analyst (summary 1, audio Apr20)
TD’s cell phone data, including raccoon text (9 Sep 2019)

24 - DAVE STUBBS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr20, audio Apr24)
Travel records, email, Fitbit, prescription, cell phones, insurance records; search for TR’s Jeep & welfare check (Nov 2019); wedding photos (Nov 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about forensic training, reiterates that only AC was at both locations on key dates

25 - NICOLE HEIDEMAN: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, audio Apr24)
CD & LVD Google searches, temple visit dates (Nov 2018-Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about search results

26 - NICK BALLANCE: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr24, Apr25)
Cell phone data location ‘pings’ (Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about FBI training, mapping cell areas

27 - SUMMER SHIFLET: STATE & DEFENSE WITNESS, LVD’s sister, representing TR (summary 1, audio Apr25)
STATE: LVD told her she knew where kids were and that they were safe (Feb 2020), video visit (Jun 2020)
DEFENSE: LVD’s childhood & family, LVD’s relationship with TR, LVD’s religious beliefs


--- FORENSICS EVIDENCE FROM JJ & TYLEE'S REMAINS (JUN 2020)---

28 - RICK SCHMITT: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr25)
Yellowstone trip (8 Sep 2019), storage unit footage (Oct 2019), discovery of bodies (9 Jun 2020)
X-EXAM: asks how they know “C.Quint” at shooting club was AC

29 - STEVE DANIELS: STATE WITNESS, FBI forensics (summary 1, audio Apr25)
Excavation of TR & JJ’s remains (9 Jun 2020)
X-EXAM: asks about credentials

30 - DR GARTH WARREN: STATE WITNESS, forensic pathologist (summary 1, audio Apr26)
JJ’s autopsy: cause of death as asphyxia by plastic bag & duct tape (11 Jun 2020), TR’s autopsy: cause of death as homicide by unspecified means (Jun 2020)
X-EXAM: asks about credentials, how they determined cause of death

31 - DR ANGI CHRISTENSEN: STATE WITNESS, FBI forensics anthropologist (summary 1, 2, audio Apr26, Apr27)
Examination of TR’s bones (Aug-Sep 2020)
X-EXAM: asks about credentials

32 - DOUGLAS HALEPASKA: STATE WITNESS, FBI forensics examiner in firearms & tool marks division (summary 1, audio Apr27)
Examination of TR’s bones - signs of stabbing & chopping injuries on pelvis bone (Feb-Oct 2021)
X-EXAM: asks about credentials

33 - DAVID SINCERBEAUX: STATE WITNESS, ID State PD, analytical chemist (summary 1, audio Apr27)
Fire debris analysis - gasoline present with remains
X-EXAM: asks about contents tested

34 - RYLENE NOWLIN: STATE WITNESS, ID State PD, forensics lab (summary 1, audio Apr27)
DNA analysis to determine JJ & Tylee’s parentage

35 - KATHERINE DACE: STATE WITNESS, forensic biologist (summary 1, audio Apr27)
Analysis of blood stains; Tylee’s DNA on shovel & pick ax from CD’s shed (Apr 2021)
X-EXAM: asks about credentials, where hair was found (on tape)

36 - TARA MARTINEZ: STATE WITNESS, forensic scientist (summary 1, audio Apr27)
Latent prints on black plastic bag match AC

*11 - CHUCK KUNSAITIS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 3, audio Apr27)
Satellite imagery of Daybell residence (Aug-Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about smoke or fire on satellite images


---TAMMY'S DEATH (OCT 2019)---

37 - SAMANTHA GWILLIAM: STATE WITNESS, TD’s sister (summary 1, audio Apr27)
Events leading up to TD’s death, learning of TD’s death from CD
(Oct 2019), learning of CD & LVD’s marriage - “There’s no children and they were going to be empty nesters.” (Nov 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about TD’s obituary stating she “died peacefully in her sleep” (per CD); CD’s near-death experiences, books, and work as sexton

38 - COLTER CANNON: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff deputy (summary 1, audio Apr28)
TD’s “paintball incident” (9 Oct 2019)

39 - HELENA KAAIAKAMANU: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff dispatch (summary 1, audio Apr28)
911 calls from TD’s “paintball incident” (9 Oct 2019)

40 - CHRISTINA WEST: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff dispatch (summary 1, audio Apr28)
911 call from TD’s death (19 Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: asks if CD asked for coroner or ambulance (unclear)

41 - ALYSSA GREENHALGH: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, audio Apr28)
911 response to TD’s death (19 Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about why CD didn’t call 911 right away; whether TD would have been alive when she fell out of bed (yes); whether CPR was performed (no)

42 - CAMMY WILLMORE: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co EMT (summary 1, audio Apr28)
911 response to TD’s death - TD has been dead for hours, pink foam (19 Oct 2019)

43 - BRENDA DYE: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co EMT, coroner (summary 1, 2, audio Apr28)
911 response to TD’s death (19 Oct 2019); UT medical examiner cause of death: asphyxiation/homicide
X-EXAM: asks about changing death cert.

44 - SPENCER COOK: STATE WITNESS, Sugar Salem School District technology director (summary 1, audio Apr28)
TD’s emails - CV’s address was blocked

45 - KELSEY HARRIS: STATE WITNESS, TD’s coworker and clogging instructor and (summary 1, audio Apr28)
TD able to keep up with cardio workouts

46 - SHANNA MILLER: STATE WITNESS, TD’s coworker and workout buddy (summary 1, audio Apr28)
TD able to keep up with cardio workouts; TD did not appear sick on the day prior to her death

[---FORENSIC EVIDENCE FROM JJ’s REMAINS---]
47 - KEELEY COLEMAN: STATE WITNESS, DNA analyst (summary 1, audio May1)
LVD’s hair on duct tape from outside of plastic bag wrapped around JJ (May 2022)
X-EXAM: asks about credentials, testing procedures

48 - RICKY WRIGHT: STATE WITNESS, FBI special investigator (summary 1, 2, audio May1 pt2)
Yellowstone trip device data & photos, AC’s location at times of murders (Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about determination of pattern, points out that it is AC’s actions not LVD’s

49 - DR ERIK CHRISTENSEN: STATE WITNESS, forensic pathologist (summary 1, audio May1)
Exhumation & autopsy of TD, cause of death asphyxiation, homicide - bruises on arms and chest around time of death (Nov 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about credentials, asks if TD could have had seizure (possible, but unlikely)

50 - BRUCE MATTINGLY: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff detective (summary 1, audio May2)
TD medical records, Fitbit - show she was very active & healthy; life insur policies total payout $130k
X-EXAM: reiterates that LVD was in HI when TD died, life insur policy in place for years

51 - ALICE GILBERT: STATE WITNESS, TD’s neighbor and fellow [church] ward member (summary 1, 2, audio May2)
CD & TD’s relationship, TD’s death and funeral, CD & LVD’s quick courtship (Oct-Nov 2019), CD predicting TD’s death (Feb 2019), CD asking to live with them & ask for bond after LVD arrested (Feb 2020)
X-EXAM: questions how she knew Melanie Gibb, what she knew about CD’s books, religious beliefs, Preparing a People

52 - TODD GILBERT: STATE WITNESS, TD’s neighbor and fellow [church] ward member (summary 1, 2, audio May2)
TD’s death and funeral, CD & LVD’s quick courtship (Oct-Nov 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs, Preparing a People, Gibb/Mow/Vallow/Thor podcast (audio)

53 - AUDREY BARATTIERO: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, audio May3)
LVD’s religious beliefs, removing “negative spirit” from CV (summer 2019), TD’s death and visit to ID for funeral (Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs, Preparing a People
REDIRECT: LVD threatened to kill AB (Oct 2019)

54 - VINCE KAAIAKAMANU: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff detective (summary 1, audio May3)
TD email to son Mark abt paintball incident (13 Oct 2019), AC’s google searches & geolocation (Oct 2019), AC’s guns
X-EXAM: asks about credentials, follow-up on paintball incident, Google searches


—CD & LVD EVADING LE (NOV/DEC 2019) —

55 - IAN PAWLOWSKI: STATE WITNESS, husband of LVD’s niece (summary 1, audio May3)
*exclusionary issue: spoke with Melani, who violated exclusionary issue
Meeting LVD & CD (Nov 2019), contacting Rexburg PD (Dec 2019)
X-EXAM: recordings of convos w LVD & CD

 

[Nikynoo]

Here is IP's testimony from yesterday. For some reason, none of the other outlets I checked got his testimony from the court

its on EIN YT

 

[Nikynoo]

Does anybody remember the date when ZP and MP talked about Lori saying that MP was going to have a bunch of money, so the group didn't have to worry about money? ZP said MP was hurt by that and I'm wondering if that was why LVD was snippy with MP in HI.

I only know if was after Charles died but before Tammy died. I think it was September 2019 because it was MP's divorce settlement (supposedly).

 

[nhmemorymaker]

1) All of the above. I think CD either had other affairs or at least tried to get them started with other women when he left his wife at home and did these speaking engagements. But I also think LV was the first one willing to give up her family for him and also that they were two peas in a pod with all this nutty belief system and their over inflated egos and they fed off one another and convinced each other they could do whatever they wanted to or needed to do to be together and compete their mission. that is not so much that one controlled the other but they both fed off of and into each other and it was a dangerous combination that created monsters who had no fear and we’re accountable to no one.
2) I don’t know but I think that AC was definitey in to her and that she knew it and used it whether they were doing anything physical or not during this time, I do not know.
3) I think he Narcon was given to him by 1st responders who thought he might have overdosed.

My assessment of the three questions is quite similar, except that I feel more certain there was nothing physical with Lori and Alex at this time. I feel Alex was placed in attack mode with Joe Ryan ( both the attack when Alex got sent to prison, and when he killed Joe Ryan (my strong belief). Lori fed the violence in Alex, and she fed Alex to Chad for the violent acts they concocted.

I, have often along with others, referred to this drama as "The Perfect Storm".

And how Melaniece was being groomed.
And I believe Lori gave Alex the right to be super-protector for her. Not sexual, just hero-like.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

You may be right. But it is really hard for me to believe the LDS church encourages this. I'm happily divorced. But I was definitely not in a place mentally to get remarried within days or weeks of being able to. Too much baggage on a new relationship and it takes time to process everything. The church wants lasting marriages and leadership almost certainly understands that remarrying after a few days does not lead to that. But again, I'm not LDS so please correct me if I am wrong. Definitely people like the Todd and Alice were pretty shocked at how fast things happened. As I pointed out in a post a few minutes ago, quick marriages were very common in the cult.

There is a message in LDS culture to BE married, so there is an acceptance of it happening very quickly. I've seen it personally, a few times

Also want to share another murder case in Florida, showing a divorced LDS couple, they both marry again quickly; ex-wife doesn't like shared custody, so somehow her new husband and a hit man kill the ex-husband. The ex-wife currently living Scott free in Oregon......Her very very rich and prominent LDS parents seem to be heavily protecting daughter.

Truly fascinating case as it rolls out too!

moo.

 

[Emi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654128676127260673

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654128678270545923

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654130798122143744

 

[Emi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654130800026337280

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654131434507112449

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654134758312677376