ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #73

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  • #721
Mental health + explicitly spelling out being taken advantage of by Chad probably would have saved her life. She wouldn't do it, per speculation and rumor and hints from her attorneys.

Yet, her attorneys achieved the same goal by hammering discovery.

Now, I don't think mental health would help her much. Maybe if she were very lucky could impact sentencing (such as to a secure hospital instead). But I think any claim that she was not able to form intent would be easily debunked. She would have to just garner sympathy for being groomed and controlled. It's a stretch.

Once death was off the table, there was less for her to gain with MH defense.

MOO
Would love to know what she was doing and how she was behaving to keep failing her mental health exams.

We can assume stuff like I am a goodess don't you know??? I don't need to eat food...(while she munching on a sandwich....) or use the bathroom ( while they collecting urine samples to check for drugs)

But is that really enough???
How hard is it to insist power and goobledee gook.
Not THAT big of a stretch for a narcissistic person to believe inflated sense of importance.

Seeing the embarrassing performance of Letecia Stauch's mental health evail....

This girl got questions.:oops:
 
  • #722
Everything about this belief system and behavior of the adults seems so pre-teen level silly. The fact that it all led to the murdering of children and adult/s (and one near-murder) is so very beyond rational thinking.

jmo
 
  • #723
yes thats why ZP MG AB DW etc testimonies are ditsy.
Because they all have guilty knowledge of varying degree and they all participated in the goobledee gook.

Just sad and shocking that humans can be so gullible and so cruel all at the same time.

It does feel wrong that these fools will not be held accountable for their dangerous beliefs and endorsements.
But we see how important their confirming what we suspect is and at the end of the day these folks will be a part of sealing Lor's fate.
Agree.
These people were party to the 'we are better than the rest of the humans on this planet' cult. They were fine with looking down on the 'Satanic dark people' who didn't believe what they believed or who simply got in their way. They all accepted the 'dark' ratings at the time. (Despite what they are now saying on the stand in court.)

This is the real danger of religious extremism. They believe they are above the 'human law'.

I think this group (ZP, MG, DW, AB) are all trying to save their butts now that real life here on planet Earth is right in their face. There should be a price to pay for not caring about their fellow human beings. We all share this planet. We are humanity.
 
  • #724
Everything about this belief system and behavior of the adults seems so pre-teen level silly. The fact that it all led to the murdering of children and adult/s (and one near-murder) is so very beyond rational thinking.

jmo
I guess though being exposed and infamous now to the entire world for your foolishness is punishment enough for this folk.

Just feels like when they are testifying that deep down they all still believe. And that should worry all of us.
 
  • #725
I know this didn't come up in trial, but I've been mulling over the death of Eldon Clawson, Chad's neighbor. Eldon 'patrolled' the water ditches in the area. He was a busybody by all accounts. And he ended up dead of a pulmonary embolism less that a week after JJ was buried on Chad's property.

Obituary for Eldon Clawson at Flamm Funeral Home

I know this is bordering on 'conspiracy theory' status, but what are the odds? Chad posted his infamous 'raccoon' message to Tammy. Is it because he was concerned about what Eldon might have seen?
 
  • #726
Wasn't Lori in Hawaii when Tammy died?? This twitter-reported trial is really messing with me... I thought there was evidence showing this. If so, the only way she could be with AC when Tammy died, was possibly via "portal" (lol)

Sigh... If portals could only talk. YUCK, never mind. It surely must have been a portal to hell. :eek:
 
  • #727
I know this didn't come up in trial, but I've been mulling over the death of Eldon Clawson, Chad's neighbor. Eldon 'patrolled' the water ditches in the area. He was a busybody by all accounts. And he ended up dead of a pulmonary embolism less that a week after JJ was buried on Chad's property.

Obituary for Eldon Clawson at Flamm Funeral Home

I know this is bordering on 'conspiracy theory' status, but what are the odds? Chad posted his infamous 'raccoon' message to Tammy. Is it because he was concerned about what Eldon might have seen?
I think you make a very good point.
Many would agree with you.

What would be the chances of a random embolism just like Alex.

And the annoying part about that. ....its so open ended.

WHAT caused the embolism. It doesn't start itself.


Its like saying someone died from swelling on the brain
Sure...but something made the swelling occur.

Was it a stroke??
Was it bashed on the head with a baseball bat??

I have no medical qual to justify my thoughts but it keeps coming to my mind being injected with air.

moo
 
  • #728
I know this didn't come up in trial, but I've been mulling over the death of Eldon Clawson, Chad's neighbor. Eldon 'patrolled' the water ditches in the area. He was a busybody by all accounts. And he ended up dead of a pulmonary embolism less that a week after JJ was buried on Chad's property.

Obituary for Eldon Clawson at Flamm Funeral Home

I know this is bordering on 'conspiracy theory' status, but what are the odds? Chad posted his infamous 'raccoon' message to Tammy. Is it because he was concerned about what Eldon might have seen?


Annie Cushing alludes to this along with 2 attorneys from Lori's past suddenly dying in the timeframe of her prior marriage/divorce to Joe Ryan. It's on Annie's twitter. o_O
 
  • #729
Annie Cushing alludes to this along with 2 attorneys from Lori's past suddenly dying in the timeframe of her prior marriage/divorce to Joe Ryan. It's on Annie's twitter. o_O
I'm not as suspicious about the 2 lawyers...but I am suspicious about Eldon. It very well might be a random event (as the family believes), but I keep stumbling over the odds.
 
  • #730
I agree. 100% guilty of all charges.

Lori's lawyers have their hands tied behind their backs because she won't let them use a mental health defense.

My opinion.
OTOH, she doesn't look mentally ill during this trial. Deluded, perhaps.
 
  • #731
I have always believed Lori was there for every murder, including Tammy somehow.
Look at the text exchanges with Charles’ sons after he was killed. She is cold and calculating. I also think killings gave her a thrill. Look at how she sits through the autopsies with no emotion but smiles and chats with her attorneys.
For BB, Tammy and Alex she was out of town when they were attacked or died.
 
  • #732
We can only make an inference from the alibi lodged by Lori. We know that MG and D were at Loris the night JJ died but were not there (as far as we know) on the night Tylee died, therefore, Chad must have been if that element of her alibi is true.
Early on in this trial, JA was trying to insinuate that both children could have been killed at once (so she would only need one alibi). Of course it won't work. It seems like Chad was at her apartment almost daily since her move.
 
  • #733
Tylee was a smart girl. And onto them.
IF she wasn't present for Charles' murder, perhaps she believed Lori's version. IMO she knew about Lori's religious delusions, but didn't suspect that her and JJ's lives were in danger from her own Mother and uncle. Tammy also had no idea what Chad was planning for her.
 
  • #734
How do we know that they did not? In MOO I believe that TD was battling depression in her last months or more - not just a mild depression but a deep rooted one that caused her to lose sleep and withdraw from her family by going to bed earlier and earlier. I had thought that she had probably read CVs email about CD’s affair and that caused it but perhaps one of these people did tell her that CD was telling other she would die before turning 50. We really don’t know how much she was aware of regarding CV’s words or actions or even his distorted religious views.
IIRC, it was said that Tammy's depression started a year or two earlier. Chad's writer friend JR also stated that in mid-2018 (pre-Lori) Chad told her not to visit him at home any more because of Tammy's jealousy. There might have been other women before Lori. When Tammy was attacked by Alex on October 9, she called for Chad.
 
  • #735
Odd that you would post this today…it’s the first day that it has even occurred to me that she may have been there with AC in that church parking lot waiting for the right time
Lori was in Arizona at the time of the shooting and in Hawaii for her death.
 
  • #736
yes thats why ZP MG AB DW etc testimonies are ditsy.
Because they all have guilty knowledge of varying degree and they all participated in the goobledee gook.

Just sad and shocking that humans can be so gullible and so cruel all at the same time.

It does feel wrong that these fools will not be held accountable for their dangerous beliefs and endorsements.
But we see how important their confirming what we suspect is and at the end of the day these folks will be a part of sealing Lor's fate.
You can't be held criminally responsible for outlandish beliefs. Participating in illegal activity (murder) is a different matter. Lindsey Blake said it (paraphrasing): Lori isn't prosecuted for her beliefs, but for using those beliefs to convince others to kill.
 
  • #737
You can't be held criminally responsible for outlandish beliefs. Participating in illegal activity (murder) is a different matter. Lindsey Blake said it (paraphrasing): Lori isn't prosecuted for her beliefs, but for using those beliefs to convince others to kill.
Yes I am only referring to this cult and sitting back knowing these murders are occurring.

Par for this course only.

Praying for dark zombies deaths aka targeted enemies....is conspiritual.

They all had varying knowledge of Chad and Lori's actions....and did nothing to prevent.
 
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  • #738
Has anyone read John Glatt's true crime book, The Doomsday Mother about Lori?
I normally avoid this author like the plague as I think his writing style is sickly and more for sensation selling than it is actual good writing, but if it's the only book there is and it's true to the facts I will read it.
 
  • #739
Thank you. It's true that I previously noted the lack of solid evidence of LORI personally doing the murders. (Did I see proof of Alex and Chad personal actions? Sure. Suspicion that she too might have done some of it? Sure. But certainly not proof.) And the evidence of an actual conspiracy seemed mostly (if not entirely) circular. The prosecution put her in the vicinity of murders and murderers, but I felt actual proof she knew beforehand what they would be doing was assumptive and sketchy.

But today, that changed, because Lori's own personal texts and emails have begun to show her up to her eyeballs in an explicit, ongoing conspiracy where people were to be gotten rid of. She herself talked about it, plotted, made plans, and that's in her own words, in writing. It linked her to Chad and Alex, in real time, as they worked through the logistics of removing "obstacles" to their desires. Most importantly, those people then were gotten rid of in due time, by her literal partners in these crimes.

I'm anxious to hear more of this exhibit testimony Monday, since today they only got as far as the summer of 2019 essentially. But I've already seen enough to be convinced there was an ongoing conspiracy of evil.

[SIDE NOTE: It's hard to keep track of the cast of other characters, and who said and did what, and when. But as all this unfolds, it feels like there must be real evidence that some of these others were conspiring as well, in the pursuit of their own piece of money and power within the group, based on their knowledge and actions as revealed in all these texts and emails. We'll see later if LE agrees.]

That conspiracy makes her just as guilty as them in whatever they did. IMO She indisputably both planned for the murders to happen, and knew in advance.

I'm still not convinced she personally murdered any of the 3 in this trial, but since she helped to plan them, that wouldn't make her any less guilty.
I mostly agree with you and am convinced, I think, by the very sames texts as you. My only reservation is that the incriminating text was July 9 about a plan against Charles. That is bad enough, no doubt. But we are still lacking evidence that she had foreknowledge of JJ, Tylee, and Tammy. Do I think she did, yes. And partly why I am willing to draw such a line is that I expect we will see similar incriminating texts before the other murders. So I am content to wait before passing judgement. If we don't see any more I'll probably fall off the fence on the guilty side.

Personally I think those texts incriminate others, at least MP, but maybe not in any Idaho crimes. But I would not be at all surprised to see her indicted for conspiracy in Arizona.
 
  • #740
Agree.
These people were party to the 'we are better than the rest of the humans on this planet' cult. They were fine with looking down on the 'Satanic dark people' who didn't believe what they believed or who simply got in their way. They all accepted the 'dark' ratings at the time. (Despite what they are now saying on the stand in court.)

This is the real danger of religious extremism. They believe they are above the 'human law'.

I think this group (ZP, MG, DW, AB) are all trying to save their butts now that real life here on planet Earth is right in their face. There should be a price to pay for not caring about their fellow human beings. We all share this planet. We are humanity.
OTOH, we can't ascribe critical thinking skills to cult members. They believed in Chad and Lori's doctrine and their reasoning. The cult's trust rating was lika a gullibility scale (AB's 100%; MBP's, MG's & ZP's around/above 95%). IF members were getting suspicious or doubtful, they got themselves out (a couple of them did). After that they should have gone to the authorities IF they suspected murders were taking place.
 
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