GUILTY ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #76

[RickshawFan]

I do wonder if the Cox family behaved themselves in Hawaii. Any unexpected deaths, etc.

I always wondered about Tylee not being well there. IIRC that's where she had "stomach" issues? I thought LVD might have been poisoning her.

 

[mickey2942]

I always wondered about Tylee not being well there. IIRC that's where she had "stomach" issues? I thought LVD might have been poisoning her.

I have often thought of this. Making Tylee more dependent, and also showing LVD as the "perfect mother", caring for her "sickly daughter'. Sounds like LVD to me. She would relish going to medical appointments, flirting with medical staff. Munchausen syndrome. Perfect for the narcissistic BPD, psychopth that describes LVD perfectly.

 

[Ruminations]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659388827042201601

This juror made a point that was a new one to me:

If Lori had simply been a passive victim of having her children killed by those around her, why wouldn't she cultivate her relationships with Colby and Summer instead of tossing them aside.

It's an obvious point. But it hadn't occurred to me.

My missing it might partly be because, especially in regards to Summer, I just learned during the trial that Lori iced her out so severely.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I am looking forward to learning more about the conspiracy on Brandon's life.

I think it is possible that Melani was very much taken advantage of, and not really the driver of the attempted murder on her husband and the potential murders of her children.

I've never seen her side of the conversation. I've seen Lori speak for Melani on parenting demons. I've seen Lori roll with it when Chad made sadistic comments about giving children a reason to scream. I've heard Lori quoted as saying Melani has money for all in Rexburg (and Melani described as being taken aback). Yet, I haven't seen anything from Melani except regurgitated cult BS- like kids can be light one day then dark the next.

Her side of the conversations will be illuminating. Either she will be a major coconspirator, or a cash cow for the cult as a back up in case the end of the world was delayed again.

MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

I have often thought of this. Making Tylee more dependent, and also showing LVD as the "perfect mother", caring for her "sickly daughter'. Sounds like LVD to me. She would relish going to medical appointments, flirting with medical staff. Munchausen syndrome. Perfect for the narcissistic BPD, psychopth that describes LVD perfectly.

I thought it would be LVD’S revenge for being “mouthy”, but I also doubted that Tylee was “mouthy” without a reason. It also would have kept her out of school, where she might be able to report what was happening at home.

 

[mickey2942]

I thought it would be LVD’S revenge for being “mouthy”, but I also doubted that Tylee was “mouthy” without a reason. It also would have kept her out of school, where she might be able to report what was happening at home.

Yes, and it would be very inconvenient for Tylee to have friends, going out, when she was needed at home to take care of JJ.

 

[indicolite22]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659660768126840832

I found this juror's reasons for being unconvinced about Lori's guilt in Tammy's case interesting. She considered the defense's argument that Tammy might have had seizures from her medication and the fact that her death certificate hasn't been changed since the autopsy results. Those didn't seem persuasive to me.

 

[Kemug]

This juror made a point that was a new one to me:

If Lori had simply been a passive victim of having her children killed by those around her, why wouldn't she cultivate her relationships with Colby and Summer instead of tossing them aside.

It's an obvious point. But it hadn't occurred to me.

My missing it might partly be because, especially in regards to Summer, I just learned during the trial that Lori iced her out so severely.

MOO

Being cut off and ignored by LVD is the best and safest relationship to be in with her.

 

[indicolite22]

I wonder if any of the Arizona cases will come in as demonstrative evidence at Chad's trial? Chad has not been indicted in Arizona, so maybe not. Will there be other evidence that will be used against him that wasn't presented for Lori? I don't doubt that the jury would conclude that he was there for the children's burials and Tammy's murder. How will the prosecution tie him the strongest to the children's murders, apart from his texts about their death percentages and (in Tylee's case) googling wind direction before her death? Perhaps digging JJ's grave in advance, too.

 

[iamshadow21]

I always wondered about Tylee not being well there. IIRC that's where she had "stomach" issues? I thought LVD might have been poisoning her.

Tylee had pancreatitis, though, right? My mother-in-law has that. If she eats the wrong things when it's flaring up, she's in a world of hurt.

MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

Tylee had pancreatitis, though, right? My mother-in-law has that. If she eats the wrong things when it's flaring up, she's in a world of hurt.

MOO

“Eating the wrong things” may be the operative words. We don’t know what LVD was feeding her as a child.

Was Tylee diagnosed with pancreatitis in the Hawaii days? I understood “stomach issues”.

 

[indicolite22]

MBP allegedly (according to JA) privately stated during the trial that the nails were already in Lori's coffin. What did she mean by it? That Lori would be convicted no matter how she testified? Her unwillingness to contribute towards Lori's conviction?

Court TV's Chanley Painter described Lori's demeanor during AB's testimony. Lori showed clear disagreement with specific AB's statements, including AB's claim that she remained silent during a casting session. AB was sobbing on the stand when describing Lori's threats to her life, but did she ever cry thinking about what happened to Lori's children?

 

[Ruminations]

I found this juror's reasons for being unconvinced about Lori's guilt in Tammy's case interesting. She considered the defense's argument that Tammy might have had seizures from her medication and the fact that her death certificate hasn't been changed since the autopsy results. Those didn't seem persuasive to me.

I imagine they didn't change the death certificate because they were being a little cagey with the Daybell kids and any witnesses that were not privy to the discovery.

Idk, of course. Just a guess. But when I heard the witness speak, it occurred to me she didn't know the "he was framed," drama.

I was surprised the prosecution did not mention the frequency of seizures with Prozac type antidepressants. It's very low. <modsnip: Reference to cocaine has led to off topic discussion down thread> People with epilepsy and depression are directed to drugs like Prozac, because it triggers seizures very rarely, unlike old style antidepressants. But the defense made it sound like a common side effect unchallenged by the prosecution.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I wonder if any of the Arizona cases will come in as demonstrative evidence at Chad's trial? Chad has not been indicted in Arizona, so maybe not. Will there be other evidence that will be used against him that wasn't presented for Lori? I don't doubt that the jury would conclude that he was there for the children's burials and Tammy's murder. How will the prosecution tie him the strongest to the children's murders, apart from his texts about their death percentages and (in Tylee's case) googling wind direction before her death? Perhaps digging JJ's grave in advance, too.

IANAL, but I don't think the indictment has anything to do with it. In fact, the jury was never told that Lori was charged in Charles' death.

I believe other charges/convictions etc. can't be mentioned if they serve to discredit a defendant's character. Other bad acts can only be brought in to show a person knows how to do something- if a person says they don't know how to throttle, for ex- prosecutors can say. Yes you know how, you did it in 2019. Or to show a person has a motive- like that person you almost killed in 2019 is about to talk. Or to show a pattern. Like a person has entered a house, shot the occupant, and robbed it twice. Now they are accused of entering a house and shooting someone, but the police arrived before robbing. The accused claims, I heard a noise and though someone broke into my dear neighbor's house; I thought he was an intruder and I shot in self defense. The prosecution can bring in previous acts to cast doubt on the story.

But it can't just be a character assasination. So, for instance, if Lori had 4 DUI's in AZ, it would be inadmissible because it does not show a pattern or motive or prove she would know how to do the crimes she was on trial for.

Anything that happened in AZ if to AZ victims would be discussable at Chad's trial if it's relevant. His lawyer will vigorously disagree, of course. As did Lori's.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

IANAL, but I don't think the indictment has anything to do with it. In fact, the jury was never told that Lori was charged in Charles' death.

I believe other charges/convictions etc. can't be mentioned if they serve to discredit a defendant's character. Other bad acts can only be brought in to show a person knows how to do something- if a person says they don't know how to throttle, for ex- prosecutors can say. Yes you know how, you did it in 2019. Or to show a person has a motive- like that person you almost killed in 2019 is about to talk. Or to show a pattern. Like a person has entered a house, shot the occupant, and robbed it twice. Now they are accused of entering a house and shooting someone, but the police arrived before robbing. The accused claims, I heard a noise and though someone broke into my dear neighbor's house; I thought he was an intruder and I shot in self defense. The prosecution can bring in previous acts to cast doubt on the story.

But it can't just be a character assasination. So, for instance, if Lori had 4 DUI's in AZ, it would be inadmissible because it does not show a pattern or motive or prove she would know how to do the crimes she was on trial for.

Anything that happened in AZ if to AZ victims would be discussable at Chad's trial if it's relevant. His lawyer will vigorously disagree, of course. As did Lori's.

MOO

So could it be brought up that Chad declared Charles and BB zombies before he applied it to the children and Tammy?

 

[SteveS]

I happened across this article today about a case of a UT woman (Kouri Richins) accused of killing her husband, that had a lot of elements that remind me of LVD. (There's a WS forum on the case, still on thread 1).

This murder was also essentially about money, including millions in life insurance to benefit from his death, and the total here was much higher than in the LVD case. There is also evidence of prior attempts to kill him perhaps, him being suspicious thinking she was trying to kill him -- so he changed beneficiary designations to family and others, rearranged his assets to try to keep her from being able to get them, and told others what was going on. But he stayed married for the kids. Sound familiar?

No zombies in this case, however!!!

ETA - In this case, she was also pursuing fame from the death (like LVD and her goddess thing), with a children's book on how to deal with "the rollercoaster of grief" and dealing with the loss of a father. She said she based this on her life experience with her kids. More alarming (and perhaps another parallel), it is reported she was planning on a followup book for kids that would be about dealing with the death of a sibling. (She has 3 kids.) Yikes!

Kamas woman accused of killing husband took $2M in life insurance policies, police say

Amended charges against a Kamas woman accused of killing her husband with fentanyl now allege she owed millions in debt and took out almost $2 million in life insurance policies on her husband before his death, without his knowledge.

ksltv.com

UT - Kouri Richins, 33, Author, wife, mom, charged in husband’s “unexpected” death last year, May 2023

Kouri Richins was on the news promoting a children’s book on grief. Her husband had “unexpectedly died” a year before leaving their three little boys in despair. However, she was just arrested for her husband’s murder, being accused of intentionally lacing his drink with a fatal dose of...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Chelly]

These charges seem so disjointed.
There is a great big elephant in the room.

No way MP is gunna avoid charges.

WATCH THIS SPACE.

MP has been watching over her shoulder for years. I expect they will come for her.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I happened across this article today about a case of a UT woman (Kouri Richins) accused of killing her husband, that had a lot of elements that remind me of LVD. (There's a WS forum on the case, still on thread 1).

This murder was also essentially about money, including millions in life insurance to benefit from his death, and the total here was much higher than in the LVD case. There is also evidence of prior attempts to kill him perhaps, him being suspicious thinking she was trying to kill him -- so he changed beneficiary designations to family and others, rearranged his assets to try to keep her from being able to get them, and told others what was going on. But he stayed married for the kids. Sound familiar?

No zombies in this case, however!!!

ETA - In this case, she was also pursuing fame from the death (like LVD and her goddess thing), with a children's book on how to deal with "the rollercoaster of grief" and dealing with the loss of a father. She said she based this on her life experience with her kids. More alarming (and perhaps another parallel), it is reported she was planning on a followup book for kids that would be about dealing with the death of a sibling. (She has 3 kids.) Yikes!

Kamas woman accused of killing husband took $2M in life insurance policies, police say

Amended charges against a Kamas woman accused of killing her husband with fentanyl now allege she owed millions in debt and took out almost $2 million in life insurance policies on her husband before his death, without his knowledge.

ksltv.com

UT - Kouri Richins, 33, Author, wife, mom, charged in husband’s “unexpected” death last year, May 2023

Kouri Richins was on the news promoting a children’s book on grief. Her husband had “unexpectedly died” a year before leaving their three little boys in despair. However, she was just arrested for her husband’s murder, being accused of intentionally lacing his drink with a fatal dose of...

www.websleuths.com

Yes, the knowledge of how to work the insurance system does ring some similarities. And the Mormon background as well. AND a sister who the murdered man entrusted in his will instead of his wife. BUT at least her children are safe.

 

[887sMtreme]

Yes, the knowledge of how to work the insurance system does ring some similarities. And the Mormon background as well. AND a sister who the murdered man entrusted in his will instead of his wife. BUT at least her children are safe.

BBM
…Except for the psychological burden they will carry with them for rest of their lives, and possibly visit on their own children someday, should they have any.

 

[fred&edna]

I happened across this article today about a case of a UT woman (Kouri Richins) accused of killing her husband, that had a lot of elements that remind me of LVD. (There's a WS forum on the case, still on thread 1).

This murder was also essentially about money, including millions in life insurance to benefit from his death, and the total here was much higher than in the LVD case. There is also evidence of prior attempts to kill him perhaps, him being suspicious thinking she was trying to kill him -- so he changed beneficiary designations to family and others, rearranged his assets to try to keep her from being able to get them, and told others what was going on. But he stayed married for the kids. Sound familiar?

No zombies in this case, however!!!

ETA - In this case, she was also pursuing fame from the death (like LVD and her goddess thing), with a children's book on how to deal with "the rollercoaster of grief" and dealing with the loss of a father. She said she based this on her life experience with her kids. More alarming (and perhaps another parallel), it is reported she was planning on a followup book for kids that would be about dealing with the death of a sibling. (She has 3 kids.) Yikes!

Kamas woman accused of killing husband took $2M in life insurance policies, police say

Amended charges against a Kamas woman accused of killing her husband with fentanyl now allege she owed millions in debt and took out almost $2 million in life insurance policies on her husband before his death, without his knowledge.

ksltv.com

UT - Kouri Richins, 33, Author, wife, mom, charged in husband’s “unexpected” death last year, May 2023

Kouri Richins was on the news promoting a children’s book on grief. Her husband had “unexpectedly died” a year before leaving their three little boys in despair. However, she was just arrested for her husband’s murder, being accused of intentionally lacing his drink with a fatal dose of...

www.websleuths.com

I've been following and commenting on the K Richins case... it's mighty interesting. I really didn't want to get involved in another semi-similar-to-LVD case but I couldn't help myself.