Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Charles Vallow, 62, Oct 2019 *Arrests* #63

[887sMtreme]

The "Good Lori" just sent another email out a few minutes ago....the email was sent through another of her email accounts, its fine!

Yep, I got the same email, too. What a relief!

 

[indicolite22]

A new live with Lori Hellis in a couple of hours:

 

[indicolite22]

Scott Reisch agrees with the judge's decision from Sep 22: "The prosecution created this mess by indicting them the way they did. Now they are going to have to live with it."

Chad's likely defense with separate trials, according to SR: "Lori Vallow is crazy... I got played by this lady. I got nothing to do with the disappearance and the deaths of JJ and Tylee. It was Lori Vallow and her brother, who was probably crazy, too." Lori's defense in that case: "Chad Daybell is the master manipulator of this cult-like organization that we were in, and he obviously made me crazy. If I did anything, I was crazy, but he's the one who's responsible."

L&C's case starts at 5:42:

 

[LinasK]

Scott Reisch agrees with the judge's decision from Sep 22: "The prosecution created this mess by indicting them the way they did. Now they are going to have to live with it."

Chad's likely defense with separate trials, according to SR: "Lori Vallow is crazy... I got played by this lady. I got nothing to do with the disappearance and the deaths of JJ and Tylee. It was Lori Vallow and her brother, who was probably crazy, too." Lori's defense in that case: "Chad Daybell is the master manipulator of this cult-like organization that we were in, and he obviously made me crazy. If I did anything, I was crazy, but he's the one who's responsible."

L&C's case starts at 5:42:

Yeah, except that that defense fails to account for his involvement in Tammy's death. Is he gonna claim that Lori forced him to murder her too??? And she can't use Chad in Charles's death, because they couldn't implicate him. Did Chad force her and Alex to murder Charles??

 

[dcfi224]

So to give an injection to an uncooperative patient, how does that happen exactly? Does it take several people to hold the patient down, a gag to stop them biting - just curious and trying to imagine how it happens.

It’s not ideal, that’s for sure It usually ends up being an injection if they refuse to put the medication in their mouth. Restraints may be needed at times, but I think it’s important to remember that people with forced med orders are very sick and these are used as a last resort. Some of the antipsychotics come as once a month injection, so sometimes we will try to get them on these medications, then they just have to get it once and they’re covered for a few weeks. And ideally once their symptoms are better controlled, they start cooperating more with treatment and become agreeable to taking the medication on their own.

Do you think a blood test could be requested if a patient was suspected of avoiding ingestion of the meds?

Definitely. If someone has forced med orders, they probably have forced lab orders too, since many psychiatric medications have necessary lab monitoring. And from that we can test levels of the drug in the blood to check for adherence. It’s probably the first thing I would check with LVD.

 

[mickey2942]

All along LVD and CD's best strategy was to have separate trials. Although, I really wonder about the trust factor they both have...who could get a better deal to flip on the other one? Has the Prosecution offered anything? We don't know.

 

[indicolite22]

Yeah, except that that defense fails to account for his involvement in Tammy's death. Is he gonna claim that Lori forced him to murder her too??? And she can't use Chad in Charles's death, because they couldn't implicate him. Did Chad force her and Alex to murder Charles??

Chad's children know that Tammy died of asphyxiation, yet they still don't believe he had anything to do with her death. In Charles' case she might blame Alex.

 

[Riverdoc]

How does a unit force meds? Injections? Say "let me see in your mouth"?

Injections primarily. Also compliance with some meds that are not injectable can be verified with blood levels

 

[Riverdoc]

So to give an injection to an uncooperative patient, how does that happen exactly? Does it take several people to hold the patient down, a gag to stop them biting - just curious and trying to imagine how it happens.

“Therapeutic Hold” is the formal term

 

[shotgun09]

“Therapeutic Hold” is the formal term

Ah Yes! Creative Writing for medicine!
Been there...done that!

 

[indicolite22]

All along LVD and CD's best strategy was to have separate trials. Although, I really wonder about the trust factor they both have...who could get a better deal to flip on the other one? Has the Prosecution offered anything? We don't know.

I'm not sure if separate trials are the best option for Lori if Chad goes first and is convicted before her trial. He would likely be called to testify against her at her trial.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Happy Birthday Tylee.

 

[pizzaman12]

I'm not sure if separate trials are the best option for Lori if Chad goes first and is convicted before her trial. He would likely be called to testify against her at her trial.

My current take

I'm curious about the voice of JA and when he's able to use it as this too will have a huge impact on his client. At the end of the day, he has a job to do and he'll be arguing motions on behalf of his client.

JP has distanced himself/CD from LV from day 1 minus keeping MM close. He gets it. He's doing his job and a good one at that. Arguably the best of the bunch to date

I've been less than thrilled with RW and LB but maybe they have so much evidence it doesn't matter. I still think that as wild as this case has been, it's far from over in regards to surprises

Nobody cares about MM

 

[janewall]

Chad's children know that Tammy died of asphyxiation, yet they still don't believe he had anything to do with her death. In Charles' case she might blame Alex.

I totally see Chad blaming Alex for Tammy's death. That he didn't notice she was being choked/suffocated right next to him ... I'm sure he's a very sound sleeper.

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

So to give an injection to an uncooperative patient, how does that happen exactly? Does it take several people to hold the patient down, a gag to stop them biting - just curious and trying to imagine how it happens.

I haven’t worked at an in/patient facility since the mid-80s, but don’t think things have chsnged much. Yup, the scene you described is pretty much it, except there would be restraints.

 

[Kemug]

The bond must have been broken when Chad stopped paying for Lori's defense and when he indicated he wanted a separate trial. Blaming each other is their only legal strategy.

Don't you think they will both try to blame Alex? Now that he is dead, and not able to deny anything. eg "Alex thought I wanted the kids dead, but no way did I want that, no way!" and "We thought they were both safe and well with Alex" etc, etc. Plus "I had no idea that Alex was burying those poor kids in my backyard." I suppose it's worth a try.

 

[altojack]

Don't you think they will both try to blame Alex? Now that he is dead, and not able to deny anything. eg "Alex thought I wanted the kids dead, but no way did I want that, no way!" and "We thought they were both safe and well with Alex" etc, etc. Plus "I had no idea that Alex was burying those poor kids in my backyard." I suppose it's worth a try.

I think that's the only way they could go, blame Alex. Of course Lori could blame CD and Alex. CD could blame Lori and Alex. All will eventually become clear.

 

[CSIDreamer]

It’s not ideal, that’s for sure It usually ends up being an injection if they refuse to put the medication in their mouth. Restraints may be needed at times, but I think it’s important to remember that people with forced med orders are very sick and these are used as a last resort. Some of the antipsychotics come as once a month injection, so sometimes we will try to get them on these medications, then they just have to get it once and they’re covered for a few weeks. And ideally once their symptoms are better controlled, they start cooperating more with treatment and become agreeable to taking the medication on their own.




Definitely. If someone has forced med orders, they probably have forced lab orders too, since many psychiatric medications have necessary lab monitoring. And from that we can test levels of the drug in the blood to check for adherence. It’s probably the first thing I would check with LVD.

Interesting. I had no idea there are monthly injections.

 

[indicolite22]

I think that's the only way they could go, blame Alex. Of course Lori could blame CD and Alex. CD could blame Lori and Alex. All will eventually become clear.

Alex didn't have a motive on his own. The children weren't in the way to him and neither were Charles and Tammy. He did not stand to profit from their deaths directly. Alex didn't have his own religious doctrine that would justify killing. Spiritually, he relied on Lori and Chad.

 

[indicolite22]

Don't you think they will both try to blame Alex? Now that he is dead, and not able to deny anything. eg "Alex thought I wanted the kids dead, but no way did I want that, no way!" and "We thought they were both safe and well with Alex" etc, etc. Plus "I had no idea that Alex was burying those poor kids in my backyard." I suppose it's worth a try.

Lori told MG on the recorded call that Alex didn't know where the children were at.