Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #60

[Chelly]

If Z was directed to cause AC's death AND if only married couples were chosen to be part of the 144,000, then I'm sure another spouse was likely lined-up to take AC's place so Z (and her new partner) could continue on as part of the special ones. JMO

So strange, This plan sounds inconceivable, but now I know it definitely is in the realm of possibility. I still can't wrap my mind around how this Death-Duo's over the top lies were so convincing to so many.

 

[fred&edna]

Round about got me thinking. Wasn't Alex a pretty highly rated light character? It seems like he was an integral inner circle disciple. They needed their enforcer 144K or no. At what point (if we surmise he was murdered) did he go dark, all the way zombie dark? We're talking a matter of a couple of weeks that he would have went from one extreme to the other.

Just thinking out loud. JMO

I get your thinking And, while I totally agree that an enforcer (especially one proven to be effective) would be essential to the special organization (144,000), I don't believe he was declared "dark nor zombie-like"... rather he was likely viewed as a martyr (of sorts). He fulfilled his divine righteous participation and the dark beings were coming for him... he was just doomed (not dark) so he was to move on to the next life as a hero/martyr.

Not only would there be a new spouse lined-up for Z... there would likely be a new enforcer lined-up, as well.

C&L combined religious bits with gaming and soap opera. This combo adjusted and changed depending on what they deemed necessary at the time.

jmo (and guesses)

 

[BUF]

Pastenes told detectives she had only been married to Cox for two weeks and had known him for “about a year.”
Good reporting and statements from Zulema in this Jan. 17, 2021 link. Also a stand-up-comedy skit by Alex at 00.35, which I had not previously seen.
Police Release New Details Related To Alex Cox's Death In Vallow/Daybell Case

It sounds like Z lied about her relationship with Lori according to the last probable cause….and what an odd thing for Z to ask after her husband just died…

But then, things changed — Pastenes wanted officers to leave her home. She asked detectives if she was considered a suspect in Cox’s death, which they denied.


Police Release New Details Related To Alex Cox's Death In Vallow/Daybell Case

 

[CSIDreamer]

I get your thinking And, while I totally agree that an enforcer (especially one proven to be effective) would be essential to the special organization (144,000), I don't believe he was declared "dark nor zombie-like"... rather he was likely viewed as a martyr (of sorts). He fulfilled his divine righteous participation and the dark beings were coming for him... he was just doomed (not dark) so he was to move on to the next life as a hero/martyr.

Levels of dark. Light. Martyr. I wonder if he's a level 4.76 martyr.

 

[Forever Young]

If Z was directed to cause AC's death AND if only married couples were chosen to be part of the 144,000, then I'm sure another spouse was likely lined-up to take AC's place so Z (and her new partner) could continue on as part of the special ones. JMO

Marriage is required for all LDS members who wish to obtain exaltation, not just the 144,000. This is why we tend to see quick re-marriage after becoming a widow or being divorced in this group.

Criteria for exaltation per Wikipedia:

• Baptism;
• Confirmation;
• Melchizedek priesthood ordination (for men);
• Endowment, including washing and anointing;
• Celestial marriage;
• Sealing to parents.

Also, there is the question as to if celestial marriage is a code word for plural marriage.

This aspect of the case has been overlooked by media, but no doubt most LDS know about it without it being pointed out. However, it could be that this was also an important piece of the puzzle as to the operations of the cult.

Exaltation (Mormonism) - Wikipedia
Celestial marriage - Wikipedia

 

[altojack]

Yes, I did. So you believe ZP poisoned him on behalf of CD and LVD?

It's quite possible yes.

 

[fred&edna]

Levels of dark. Light. Martyr. I wonder if he's a level 4.76 martyr.

Maybe Or Hero 10.0. AC's name was likely to be written in martyr-gold for future generations. Heck it seems his wife was attempting to think-conjure death and earthquakes... so nothing seems off-limits!

 

[indicolite22]

Round about got me thinking. Wasn't Alex a pretty highly rated light character? It seems like he was an integral inner circle disciple. They needed their enforcer 144K or no. At what point (if we surmise he was murdered) did he go dark, all the way zombie dark? We're talking a matter of a couple of weeks that he would have went from one extreme to the other.

Just thinking out loud. JMO

Going from one extreme to the other was not unexpected in this group. Chad probably (my speculation) "measured" the light/dark levels periodically using his pendulum, therefore it was not his decision per se (to the members) to condemn someone to the dark side.

 

[indicolite22]

Maybe Or Hero 10.0. AC's name was likely to be written in martyr-gold for future generations. Heck it seems his wife attempting to think-conjure death and earthquakes... so nothing seems off-limits!

I wonder if she was the go-to earthquake lady even before meeting Chad. Chad and JR could only predict earthquakes (that never happened), but ZP could make them happen (with unknown success rate). That's on a different level as a superpower.

 

[indicolite22]

Levels of dark. Light. Martyr. I wonder if he's a level 4.76 martyr.

Did I miss something? Martyrs aren't mentioned in the doctrine uncovered so far. I remember MBP's line to IP: "Children are full of light and then suddenly they can go dark." No explanation was expected as to why. Perhaps Alex's case was the same.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Did I miss something? Martyrs aren't mentioned in the doctrine uncovered so far. I remember MBP's line to IP: "Children are full of light and then suddenly they can go dark." No explanation was expected as to why. Perhaps Alex's case was the same.

You would need to follow the quote arrows. It was a reply to light humor.

 

[indicolite22]

You would need to follow the quote arrows. It was a reply to light humor.

Sorry, I missed that. I just thought that martyrdom was a foreign concept to this group. C&L for example would never martyr themselves (IMO).

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I don't quite see why L&C's initial reaction would have been to panic like that. Their other actions consistently reflect a belief that they're so superior they can talk their way out of anything, and AC was part of the inner circle, not just another zombie. Even if they were concerned, it doesn't seem like their first reaction would be "OMG they're about to find out OMG go kill yourself."

We have seen times when Chad was distraught. And JUST hearing about Tammy being exhumed... I can see Chad going batshit over this revelation in Utah. And being out of control in Hawaii.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

My bet is these two are a tip of a very big iceberg and there is more to it all. I would out of gut instinct say follow the money.

In the very beginning of this case........... we were all over this issue. But truthfully, nothing much came up and lots and lots of people were trying to "follow the money"... As more and more became clear, the money was just coming from insurance policies and SS payments. "Always a Cox...screw the government"

 

[Dowagee]

Sorry, I missed that. I just thought that martyrdom was a foreign concept to this group. C&L for example would never martyr themselves (IMO).

It would be interesting to know if there was an insurance policy. Alex may have ‘ taken one for the team’ to help them get insurance money. He and Z obviously didn’t marry for love, going by her reaction to his death. Moo

 

[GRT]

It would be interesting to know if there was an insurance policy. Alex may have ‘ taken one for the team’ to help them get insurance money. He and Z obviously didn’t marry for love, going by her reaction to his death. Moo

I'd love to know why Z was offered immunity. For what? On page 4 of the papers, it says evidence of the plan to harm Charles was found on Z's phone in texts to Lori all the way back in November of 2018. It seems as though Z was definitely part of the inner circle of deep secrets.

 

[Diddian]

Round about got me thinking. Wasn't Alex a pretty highly rated light character? It seems like he was an integral inner circle disciple. They needed their enforcer 144K or no. At what point (if we surmise he was murdered) did he go dark, all the way zombie dark? We're talking a matter of a couple of weeks that he would have went from one extreme to the other.

Just thinking out loud. JMO

No, Alex wasn't highly rated. On the "family history" that CD sent LV on 10/30/18, Alex was 2L, while everyone else in LV's family of origin was 3L (except CD had rated LV 4.3L and had indicated that those sisters who had died - one an infant and the other a married mom - had graduated to 4.1L).

Here's a link to the story that contains the "family history" documents CD sent LV by email:
Documents sent by Chad Daybell reveal so-called 'past lives' of Lori Vallow

Since the whole rating system was such a pile of complete horse manure, my guess is that Alex became dark when he was up to his chin in it and CD and LV felt they might sink to that condition as well.

 

[indicolite22]

I'd love to know why Z was offered immunity. For what? On page 4 of the papers, it says evidence of the plan to harm Charles was found on Z's phone in texts to Lori all the way back in November of 2018. It seems as though Z was definitely part of the inner circle of deep secrets.

AFAIK, the immunity was offered to ZP for the Idaho case before the murder charges were even filed, so for the concealment charges. Use immunity protects from self-incrimination while testifying but not from evidence discovered in other ways, including phone records. If ZP testified about Alex's role and admitted that she knew everything about the children's deaths it could not be used against her unless other evidence independently proved the same thing.

 

[CSIDreamer]

No, Alex wasn't highly rated. On the "family history" that CD sent LV on 10/30/18, Alex was 2L, while everyone else in LV's family of origin was 3L (except CD had rated LV 4.3L and had indicated that those sisters who had died - one an infant and the other a married mom - had graduated to 4.1L).

Here's a link to the story that contains the "family history" documents CD sent LV by email:
Documents sent by Chad Daybell reveal so-called 'past lives' of Lori Vallow

Since the whole rating system was such a pile of complete horse manure, my guess is that Alex became dark when he was up to his chin in it and CD and LV felt they might sink to that condition as well.

Thanks for that reminder. I had it in my head he was a 4. JMO

 

[indicolite22]

Thanks for that reminder. I had it in my head he was a 4. JMO

JJ was 4.2L and it didn't save him.