Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #62

[indicolite22]

I’m sorry, but what motive would she ever have to admit she didn’t believe God was talking to her? Even if she’s crazy (and I don’t doubt her sanity one bit) she’s not stupid. Nor does she have a conscience. Unless the court insists she’s faking this woman is never going to trial. And I don’t think this court will ever be that brave. All we can hope is Chad doesn’t decide to play the same game.

ETA But I don’t think Chad would be able to play it nearly as convincingly.

As some others have pointed out, I also believe that faking it wouldn't work in the long run. If it was so easy to achieve, many others would be getting away with it. IMO there's a chance that her delusions escalated even further. Even people without strange beliefs could be affected by incarceration and personal betrayal (in her case Chad cutting her off and likely throwing her under a bus). Unlike Lori, Chad might fully believe he can still get away with it all if he plays his cards right by blaming her and Alex.

 

[squareandrabbet]

If we look at "competence" and the ability to participate in a trial, how did Warren Jeffs, leader of FLDS group manage to be convicted? The guy still thinks that he is a direct prophet.
Warren Jeffs Update: Where the Polygamous Prophet is Today | Heavy.com

And Ron Lafferty, was deemed "competent.
Condemned killer Ron Lafferty competent, judge rules

And of course, Brian David Mitchell.
Dr. Michael Welner Describes Evaluating Elizabeth Smart's Kidnapper Brian David Mitchell

I have just refreshed myself on Elizabeth Smart, and apparently it took eight (!) years to render Brian David Mitchell competent for trial, so not sure this is the most cheerful comparison in the end... also, I think it might be more appropriate to equate Lori to Wanda Barzee, the latter of whom got a much lighter sentence than Mitchell.

 

[indicolite22]

If she were regularly consulting with her lawyer, wouldn't that be seen as understanding the charges against her and being able to participate in her own defence?

We don't know for sure of the extent and the nature of their current contact. It would be weird if he was seeing her in a personal capacity unless he has some sort of a guardian role. On the other hand, if she's incompetent, I doubt they are discussing business. Couldn't that interfere with her therapy?

 

[mickey2942]

The next move will be for LVD to request a new attorney. That will happen, eventually.

I have been beyond frustrated by the Nubia Barahona case. Now, going on 10 years. Still no trial date, the criminal, Jorge Barahona, has gone through several attorneys, multiple issues related to competence. It is a death penalty case.
FL - Nubia Barahona, 10, slain, twin injured, West Palm Beach, 11 Feb 2011 *Arrest*

 

[Satchie]

There have been cases where women stand trial for having killed their children, while insisting God told them to do it. Two I know of were found not guilty by reason of insanity: Andrea Yates and Deanna Laney. But they were found mentally competent to stand trial. They understood they were being charged with murder of their children, and cooperated with their lawyer in their own defense in claiming they were not guilty of the charges of willful murder.

In those cases, their actions were not in doubt, they had killed the children themselves. The jury decided that someone who genuinely believes God is telling them to kill their children, must be insane.

But importantly, in those cases the children's bodies hadn't been concealed, the defendents hadn't lied that the children had gone off to college or to stay with a grandmother, they hadn't ordered wedding items from Amazon, travelled long distances, gotten married (signing the papers), dressed up and posed for wedding photos...this is just the stuff off the top of my head.

 

[mickey2942]

I have just refreshed myself on Elizabeth Smart, and apparently it took eight (!) years to render Brian David Mitchell competent for trial, so not sure this is the most cheerful comparison in the end... also, I think it might be more appropriate to equate Lori to Wanda Barzee, the latter of whom got a much lighter sentence than Mitchell.

I have just refreshed myself on Elizabeth Smart, and apparently it took eight (!) years to render Brian David Mitchell competent for trial, so not sure this is the most cheerful comparison in the end... also, I think it might be more appropriate to equate Lori to Wanda Barzee, the latter of whom got a much lighter sentence than Mitchell.

I actually believe that Wanda Barzee had a dependent personality disorder. I do not believe that LVD is anything but a manipulative psychopath. She has a history of using men to improve her lifestyle. CD was just one more step on her ladder. I believe that she was enthralled with having CD so besotted by her that he was willing to kill his wife to be with her. It fit her delusional narcissism.

Tylee and JJ were no longer tools to feed her "perfect mother" persona. She didn't need them any longer, she got rid of them, as easily as disposing old shoes. People are only useful to the Criminal as "tools". Tylee and JJ were no longer useful.

CD is useful, for now.

The problem with evaluating a psychopath like LVD, is that most LEO and psychiatrists are not hard core psychopaths. Unless they have years of experience with criminals who are manipulative psychopaths, they end up becoming "tools" for the Criminal.

Psychopathy Checklist - Wikipedia

 

[indicolite22]

I actually believe that Wanda Barzee had a dependent personality disorder. I do not believe that LVD is anything but a manipulative psychopath. She has a history of using men to improve her lifestyle. CD was just one more step on her ladder. I believe that she was enthralled with having CD so besotted by her that he was willing to kill his wife to be with her. It fit her delusional narcissism.

Tylee and JJ were no longer tools to feed her "perfect mother" persona. She didn't need them any longer, she got rid of them, as easily as disposing old shoes. People are only useful to the Criminal as "tools". Tylee and JJ were no longer useful.

CD is useful, for now.

The problem with evaluating a psychopath like LVD, is that most LEO and psychiatrists are not hard core psychopaths. Unless they have years of experience with criminals who are manipulative psychopaths, they end up becoming "tools" for the Criminal.

Psychopathy Checklist - Wikipedia

But Lori didn't improve her lifestyle with Chad. He wasn't the next well-off guy in line - quite the opposite. It was something else that attracted her to him - her religious delusions. They could not extend their Hawaii honeymoon indefinitely. Was she ready to live with him in his Rexburg home?

 

[mickey2942]

No. CD was just a tool, that fed into LVD's delusions of grandeur. I doubt CD was the long term plan.

 

[Satchie]

No. CD was just a tool, that fed into LVD's delusions of grandeur. I doubt CD was the long term plan.

I really don't think there was a long term plan, it was just a matter of waiting for the "End Times".

Description of one of Chad's last books (March 2019)
"Emma Dalton ventures into the future. She finds that Temple Square in Salt Lake City surrounded by an electric fence as lawlessness fills the streets. One of the Three Nephites lends a helping hand during a harrowing journey, and Emma arrives in New Jerusalem to take part in many key events before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ."
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07PS6NMTK?ref_=dbs_m_mng_wam_calw_tkin_2&storeType=ebooks

 

[indicolite22]

Chad's speech that he made on Oct 26 2018 at the PAP conference in St George, UT, where he first met Lori, will be published (for the fist time) today on the Hidden True Crime YouTube channel. In the speech Chad stated that his books weren't fictional, so JP won't be able to go in the direction he indicated at Chad's preliminary hearing.

 

[GRT]

...respectfully snipped for focus...

Chad might fully believe he can still get away with it all if he plays his cards right by blaming her and Alex.

I think you're correct. The whole children's interview with 48 Hours smacked of Chad's manipulation. Again. It's what he does.

He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Lori was so attractive when he wanted to get into her pants--attractive enough to kill his wife over--but now the bloom is off the rose. If Chad would kill Tammy he will certainly throw Lori under the bus as well.

Lori probably is crazy--Charles certainly thought so and her behavior is inexplicable. Now, it's perhaps dawning on her that she's no goddess, Chad is no god, and instead of saving the souls of her children from zombie bodies, she actually murdered them.

All JMOO.

 

[GRT]

But Lori didn't improve her lifestyle with Chad. He wasn't the next well-off guy in line - quite the opposite. It was something else that attracted her to him - her religious delusions. They could not extend their Hawaii honeymoon indefinitely. Was she ready to live with him in his Rexburg home?

That's how I see it, too. Chad wasn't wealthy nor was he good looking. In fact, he's downright pudgy and slug-like.

Lori was always teetering on the edge of being a religious extremist and Chad took advantage of that. He played her. He convinced her to kill her husband and her kids.

That must have been such a power rush for Chad, who was also convincing himself that he could be a leader of sorts.

Lori's as nutty as a fruitcake but Chad is downright evil.

 

[Kemug]

If Chad would kill Tammy he will certainly throw Lori under the bus as well.

Yes, I'm sure Chad loved Tammy in his own selfish way. And he murdered her (oh alright, IMO). So yes, he'll do whatever he can to blame Lori, if he thinks it might save his own precious skin.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I actually believe that Wanda Barzee had a dependent personality disorder. I do not believe that LVD is anything but a manipulative psychopath. She has a history of using men to improve her lifestyle. CD was just one more step on her ladder. I believe that she was enthralled with having CD so besotted by her that he was willing to kill his wife to be with her. It fit her delusional narcissism.

Tylee and JJ were no longer tools to feed her "perfect mother" persona. She didn't need them any longer, she got rid of them, as easily as disposing old shoes. People are only useful to the Criminal as "tools". Tylee and JJ were no longer useful.

CD is useful, for now.

The problem with evaluating a psychopath like LVD, is that most LEO and psychiatrists are not hard core psychopaths. Unless they have years of experience with criminals who are manipulative psychopaths, they end up becoming "tools" for the Criminal.

Psychopathy Checklist - Wikipedia

I think one thing we have going for "us" is this hospital has a lot of experience dealing with criminals from the court system. JMO

 

[Gigiky]

That's how I see it, too. Chad wasn't wealthy nor was he good looking. In fact, he's downright pudgy and slug-like.

Lori was always teetering on the edge of being a religious extremist and Chad took advantage of that. He played her. He convinced her to kill her husband and her kids.

That must have been such a power rush for Chad, who was also convincing himself that he could be a leader of sorts.

Lori's as nutty as a fruitcake but Chad is downright evil.

GRT, I totally agree!

 

[Tortoise]

It seems to me that Lori has been on the run all of her adult life. There is a pattern of finding 'love' then destruction of the set up, villification of the spouse, and running away. She's all over the country, west, south, back west again, the islands, back to the mainland and I put that down to a very destructive personality disorder, not insanity. Running away from the trouble and ruin she creates, epecially when she loses her battles. Perhaps there was abuse in her childhood, one has to wonder. Irrespective of the cause, in my opinion her 'incompetency' is the only way she can run away while she is incarcerated.

She has been stopped for good, her trail of utterly evil behavior at every turn of her life splashed across headline news, all over the world, and she is feeling mortally embarrassed to be held, and to have to answer, with no escape and no excuses, for the first time in her life she can't disappear, and there is nowhere to hide.


Lori Daybell
“What about Moroni? What was he required to do at the end?”

Lori Daybell
“...had to hide in the cavity of a rock by day and go out by night.”

source

In my opinion, she's not incompetent and she's not insane, she's doing what she's always done but it just looks different because this time there is no airline seat involved. I am sure that she understands exactly the nature of the proceedings against her and that she is malingering. She conformed in her last appearance on camera, she remained silent, she recognised her attorney, she was orientated to her surroundings and did nothing inappropriate. She knows exactly who she is, she doesn't think she's a goddess, or immortal, she informed the court of her own volition that she's not even Ms Vallow, she is Mrs Daybell.

MOO

 

[Kemug]

I am reminded of a British TV series of long ago, called "No hiding place". As Tortoise says, finally Lori has been stopped, and this time there is no hiding place, except in her head.

 

[Gigiky]

This is JMO, Lori is so used to being in control. And one of the things you lose when you're incarcerated is any control over your life. I'm sure that every minute of every day the only thought LVD has, is how am I going to get out of here to regain some sort of control. The only tool she has now is MM. I can almost hear her (LVD) in my mind asking MM, is there anyway you can get me moved to better surroundings. This is where the Psychic Unit comes into play. MM probably telling LVD if you agree to a Psychic Evaluation we can get you moved to a facility where you can have more freedom. Anyone who has ever spent anytime in County lock-up will tell you they would rather be in prison, because County Lock-up is awful by comparison. So LVD agrees thinking she might be able to regain some control. But because LVD is a ward of the state and has been deemed Indigent she isn't going to a private Metal Hospital, she is gong to a State Correctional run Facility.. Hugh difference, but still better than County Lock-up.
Like to take a moment and give a big shout out to the men and women who work in these Correctional facility. A lot of times these people get a bad wrap. But not all are bad. And while yes, sometime these Inmates who are in these Correctional Mental Health Units are rewarded in some way for any progress made in their treatment, they are very small. And the staff that work in these facilities are trained to be very aware when an Inmate is trying to garner special privilege. And you can believe LVD knows everything that CD has said or any plans he might be making where she is concerned. Old saying goes, If you (staff) want to know if a rumor is true in a Correctional setting, go ask an Inmate. They have an information highway that is uncanny. So to end my rant, I'm going to say I have faith in this Judge. I want to believe he is doing all that he can to ensure he crosses all of Ts and dots all of his Is to make sure this case moves forward.

 

[indicolite22]

Lori compared herself to Moroni. She had a persecution complex and was convinced that those who were after her were dark. The two Rexburg detectives who did a welfare check for JJ were deemed dark translated beings. Are Lori and Chad still playing the light/dark game when in court? Are the prosecutors and judge dark, too? If she thinks those are evil forces, then she's not embarrassed for getting caught.

 

[fred&edna]

I have just refreshed myself on Elizabeth Smart, and apparently it took eight (!) years to render Brian David Mitchell competent for trial, so not sure this is the most cheerful comparison in the end... also, I think it might be more appropriate to equate Lori to Wanda Barzee, the latter of whom got a much lighter sentence than Mitchell.

dbm