Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

[RexburgSleuth]

The release date was 9/16/2019. Don't know when it was recorded. Description mentions Chad Daybell "emerging from a spring and summer break."

Of note, his announced conference appearance in Sandy, UT on May 31-June 1, 2019 was canceled on short notice "due to a family emergency." And then, he had also been announced as a facilitator at a Dreams & Visions workshop on June 29 in Rexburg, but was replaced by another of the visionaries whose book he published. There was another event in Rexburg on September 20 or 21, of which he was not a part. MOO, but something happened to "break" the relationship with the event sponsors in late May 2019. But what? @RexburgSleuth , are you aware of any family emergency last spring?

The event sponsors walk a fine line of wanting to stay on the good side of the mainstream church. The past shows that they quickly disavow any of their speakers who receive church disciplinary action. I have wondered if Chad did in fact face a church disciplinary council in the spring, that did not result in disfellowshipment or excommunication, but may have resulted in informal probation or (more likely) formal probation. Formal probation results in consequences that are at the discretion of the member's local leaders. They can be removed from their church calling, or can keep it. Any thoughts, RexburgSleuth?

With other disciplinary councils happening to associated individuals around this time, and also some high profile "Christ-centered energy healing" gurus unexpectedly publicly disavowing energy healing this year, I wonder if there has been a coordinated crackdown on some of this stuff. The party line is that disciplinary action is solely in the hands of local leadership, not coordinated or directed from higher up in church leadership. But with so many happening all at once, I wonder...

Of note, disciplinary action of fringe believers tends to push most people further to the fringes, because they think surely the mainstream church has lost its way if they can't see the pure intent and god-given mission of the fringe-y member. If there was a council, it could be yet another catalyst in everything that played out.

MOO

I'm not aware of any family emergency during that time.
I'm also not aware of any disciplinary action taken, informal or formal. I would think that if such action had taken place, Chad would not have been Executive Secretary up until the time he left the ward. In fact, I fairly certain I remember the Bishop saying that they would welcome him back. That would have been Nov 3rd when it was announced that another would be filling in interim to handle the bishop's appointment schedule.
Again, I'm not sure many knew anything of the contents of Chad's writing. Of those that did, I'm convinced very few have known much beyond his fiction.

ETA: I welcome any insight from @lurker042 regarding this topic.

 

[carbuff]

So the kids at first didn't exist (per Chad's word to his family), but now they're fine?

I don't buy Chad's excuse that he didn't know about the kid's existence for a second. It was reported that him and Lori both (together?) told the story of Tylee being dead to multiple people.

On the other hand, if his wife told him her daughter had died, why would he question it? It's not the kind of thing that people normally lie about.

 

[Gardener1850]

I had read that his body wasnt discovered for some time, and only then after it had bloated and exploded. Not much of an autopsy to be performed IMO.

Indeed. According to the coroner's report, decomposition was to the point where they could not take blood samples to be "held" for toxicology. The ME took liver samples and an extra thigh muscle sample in place of the blood. There is no indication in the report on whether the thigh muscle was actually tested for anything. I can't even guess at how having thigh muscle versus blood would impact a toxicology search for poison (if they were to try to go back now and try to determine if Joe's death was suspicious). But I have a feeling it could make a difference in what substances can be detected, how easily it would be to detect, etc.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'm not aware of any family emergency during that time.
I'm also not aware of any disciplinary action taken, informal or formal. I would think that if such action had taken place, Chad would not have been Executive Secretary up until the time he left the ward. In fact, I fairly certain I remember the Bishop saying that they would welcome him back. That would have been Nov 3rd when it was announced that another would be filling in interim to handle the bishop's appointment schedule.
Again, I'm not sure many knew anything of the contents of Chad's writing. Of those that did, I'm convinced very few have known much beyond his fiction.

Not an attack at all, but how in the world does that happen? Part of me rationalizes it with "well look at what some of these TV personality preachers have pulled" but his books weren't exactly top secret. Just an observation. Jmo.

 

[Gardener1850]

How long would that be? I don't remember how quickly it was discovered, but I think his body was left unclaimed for some time.

We were told 3 weeks at first by a family member on the Gray Hughes video but the coroner's report says a neighbor saw Joe a week before (the neighbor called for welfare check when he didn't see him for a week). Even a week, however, is a long time for a body to sit undiscovered. IMHO JR's true cause of death may have been obscured by the decomp.

 

[indicolite22]

On the other hand, if his wife told him her daughter had died, why would he question it? It's not the kind of thing that people normally lie about.

He had known Lori for years and they were probably (IMO) in a relationship for the past year. I doubt she never mentioned her chidren during that time or lied from the start that Tylee was dead. And if she had done that, how would he have reacted upon learning that she'd been lying the whole time? If he lived with Lori in her townhouse in Rexburg he must have noticed JJ's toys. They were left behind when the pair fled in November. IMO he knew her family situation well - he knew about Charles and the kids.

 

[carbuff]

He had known Lori for years and they were probably (IMO) in a relationship for the past year. I doubt she never mentioned her chidren during that time or lied from the start that Tylee was dead. And if she had done that, how would he have reacted upon learning that she'd been lying the whole time? If he lived with Lori in her townhouse in Rexburg he must have noticed JJ's toys. They were left behind when the pair fled in November. IMO he knew her family situation well - he knew about Charles and the kids.

We presume they had been intimate for some time, but if he just knew her through the business connection, he might not have known anything about her personal life. Do we know for a fact he lived with her in the townhouse?

 

[Gardener1850]

Here's the link to the coroner's report post for anyone who missed it yesterday: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

It's a bit gruesome if you have never read an autopsy report, but worth a read and it's only 4 pages. Also, I imagine that Tammy's initial coroner's report looks somewhat similar to this only without the decomposition. MOO.

 

[indicolite22]

We presume they had been intimate for some time, but if he just knew her through the business connection, he might not have known anything about her personal life. Do we know for a fact he lived with her in the townhouse?

Didn't one of our VIs mention that he did not live in the family home in Salem after returning from his stay in Hawaii? He and Lori were married by then, so no reason to live apart.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Would you be able to point me where you found this recent petition she filed?
MOO - It is just too bizarre if Melani is living in Rexburg establishing a new life with her new spouse, attending mainstream services as mentioned by a poster. She has a trove of information for LE. And surely Alex’s wife must know something....

Maricopa County Court.
Family Court Case Information - Case History

 

[UnknownSleuth]

I'm not aware of any family emergency during that time.
I'm also not aware of any disciplinary action taken, informal or formal. I would think that if such action had taken place, Chad would not have been Executive Secretary up until the time he left the ward. In fact, I fairly certain I remember the Bishop saying that they would welcome him back. That would have been Nov 3rd when it was announced that another would be filling in interim to handle the bishop's appointment schedule.
Again, I'm not sure many knew anything of the contents of Chad's writing. Of those that did, I'm convinced very few have known much beyond his fiction.

ETA: I welcome any insight from @lurker042 regarding this topic.

I appreciate your insight. With formal probation, your bishop or stake president (depending which type of disciplinary council) can choose to keep you in your calling. It's up to their discretion what they think will "help" most to get you to return to a status of not being under disciplinary action. And that's especially true of informal probation, which your bishop can put you on without a council at all--no one would know but you and him.

But now that I think of it, and based on what you say, I wonder if the break with PAP was Chad's choice, in order to stay in the good graces of his local leadership/the mainstream church. Rather than a council, perhaps he received the first step that comes before a council: "a voice of warning" from his bishop and/or stake president (ironic name, huh, considering...). You can see reference that term/process in the documents I linked above. If a member receives a voice of warning and complies (minds their p's and q's), they never have to progress to a disciplinary council. Maybe Chad's bishop or stake president told him "your visions are for you personally, and you need to stop speaking at these events, or you will face disciplinary action like [podcaster/former seminary teacher] and [published authoress]" and he did as they directed. His well-known authoress said she and Chad fell out of contact around the time of her excommunication in the spring, and from her impression he was distancing himself due to her excommunication. He may have been advised by leadership to distance himself.

If he was given the "voice of warning," then why he wanted to stay in good graces is up for debate. Whether or not there was actually any involvement with Lori beyond perhaps and emotional/text affair at that time is also only speculation.

Whatever the case, he did record a podcast with Lori after her arrival in Rexburg. May have felt flattered that she came all the way there for him, and her arrival may have set further things in motion.

I also still hold an open mind to the possibility that this really is a case of a million terrible coincidences with a dash of nutty religious beliefs, and that no crimes were committed other than Alex's second degree murder of Charles. In which Lori may not have been complicit, but was visibly relieved by/considered a gift or "part of God's plan." It's a super slim chance, but it's still a chance. Also, it's still a possibility that Alex and or Lori caused Tammy's death but Chad had no knowledge of it and nothing to do with it. He has been flattered into this marriage and has believed whatever Lori has said about her previous marriage and about the supposed custody battle.

This is all fairly tangential to what actually helps determine that the kids are safe . But I guess we never know who may be reading here and who may learn something that may convince them to share something they know.

[Edited to say MOO. And I want to clarify my last sentence refers to someone coming forward to law enforcement with information, not tosomeone coming here to WS to share with us something they know.]

 

[UnknownSleuth]

Also, @RexburgSleuth, I apologize if it comes across as though I'm explaining directly to you a lot of ins and outs of church discipline that you are probably well aware of. I try to write things in such a way that a reader with little to no Mormon background can understand.

 

[Jethro4WS]

How does one refinance someone else's home? There are usually appraisals and lots of mortgage documents that are required to be signed and then recorded for a new mortgage

If the property was in his name because one doesn't believe in paying income taxes or if it is part of a Trust and Alex is the Trustee of the Trust then such things could happen.

Find the tax liens (in the hundred of thousands of dollars) in Pinal County, AZ and Bexar County, TX. Find the Federal Tax Court cases in the 5th and 9th (two of them) circuits. (Appeals Court decisions spell things out easily enough).

 

[snoflake20]

DBM - duplicate answer

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Not an attack at all, but how in the world does that happen? Part of me rationalizes it with "well look at what some of these TV personality preachers have pulled" but his books weren't exactly top secret. Just an observation. Jmo.

Thanks for your observation and your question.
I don't mean this in an apologizing way at all, but I did know Chad up until October:
A few things play into how that could happen. First, I think that a lot of people in the area (the ward) are just trying to get by. This is one of the poorest wards in the stake. Look at the street view and you'll see the trailer next to Daybell's that was so bad the previous owner had it removed. Up the road another trailer or two and cow pastures. The bulk of the homes (including Daybell's) are either from the 1960s or earlier or are manufactured homes from the 1990s. Not a lot of reading of deep controversial doctrine. We just don't have time for it. If anyone else from the area disagrees, feel free to share. I welcome more opinions on this. The area is really just full of humble "salt of the earth" types working hard for what they have as truck drivers, farm workers, teachers, bus drivers, and construction workers. That's reflected in the ward. We serve each other. Shovel each other out. Help chase down loose cattle or lost pets. Not just the ward, but the area really lives up to the name of Salem "peace".

Second, I don't feel that Chad moved in and said, "hey I'm that semi-famous LDS author buy my books!" In fact, when he moved in, he was working at a printing place in nearby Idaho Falls. I wouldn't say it felt like he was very successful with the book thing until a year or two ago. (part of me wonders if that was the beginning of the podcast and speaking circuit it appears he was in) Yes, we knew he was an author, but he didn't sit there in Sunday School and raise his hand every week to reveal something new. Healing energy and emotion code are new ideas that have not been introduced in Salem, and I don't think they'd stand up to scrutiny here. I hope I'm right. That stuff is garbage. I know he did share his books with some ward members, but mostly the fiction ones. I know that some were not well received, especially when Deseret Book removed them. Also, Chad's not as charismatic as some of the reports would have you believe. MOO: He's been played or duped into this, maybe even framed for Tammy's death. I'm still 50/50 on that. I'm sorry that doesn't match the accounts of MSM or others such as BB. But I agree with the reported friend of Chad that this is all a big surprise. I don't know to what extent he knew about Lori's children before October. I don't know why he's said or done the things he has done since.

While I value your and all opinions, there are so many things I had never heard before December. None of this cult stuff is something that is easy to listen to or believe. However, I'm going to stand by my statement that if Matt (Chad's brother) wants the truth whatever it is, so do I. I want to know the truth about my neighbor.

 

[Gardener1850]

Not an attack at all, but how in the world does that happen? Part of me rationalizes it with "well look at what some of these TV personality preachers have pulled" but his books weren't exactly top secret. Just an observation. Jmo.

I'm not the VI but as far as I can tell Chad's books were marketed as works fiction. How would most people he goes to church with know if Chad actually believes his books are prophecies based on visions he had of the future? It seems like he only shared the fact that he believed himself to be a prophet/visionary with a select few "followers" of his. It is written in his blog posts from 2015 as well but some of the things he writes on his blog are only vague references-- it's hard to tell sometimes if he is being literal or just telling another fantastical story about how he came up with ideas for his books. I'm not LDS, but as a Christian I believe this could happen in other churches with other Christian fiction writers as well. If someone is portraying themselves as a religious fiction writer and you are a fan of that genre then you may overlook any "weird" references to things that don't exactly fit your religious beliefs. For example, I love CS Lewis writings but I don't take his Narnia series as an exact theology lesson. If CS Lewis was alive today AND suddenly started claiming to his fans that Narnia was a real place he saw in futuristic visions and his books are actually prophecies, then I may have to rethink my love of his writings. I also think that anyone who is not a fan of the genre (LDS end-times fiction) that Chad wrote, wouldn't bother to read his blog or his writings at all. MOO.

(Hopefully I didn't get us too far off on a religious tangent. I don't want to get into a debate on CS Lewis or general Christianity or the LDS church in general and get the thread shut down again-- my point is the LDS church and those around Chad are not to blame if he deceived almost everyone about his actual religious beliefs and the intent of his books. MOO. )

 

[RexburgSleuth]

I'm not the VI but as far as I can tell Chad's books were marketed as works fiction. How would most people he goes to church with know if Chad actually believes his books are prophecies based on visions he had of the future? It seems like he only shared the fact that he believed himself to be a prophet/visionary with a select few "followers" of his. It is written in his blog posts from 2015 as well but some of the things he writes on his blog are only vague references-- it's hard to tell sometimes if he is being literal or just telling another fantastical story about how he came up with ideas for his books. I'm not LDS, but as a Christian I believe this could happen in other churches with other Christian fiction writers as well. If someone is portraying themselves as a religious fiction writer and you are a fan of that genre then you may overlook any "weird" references to things that don't exactly fit your religious beliefs. For example, I love CS Lewis writings but I don't take his Narnia series as an exact theology lesson. If CS Lewis was alive today AND suddenly started claiming to his fans that Narnia was a real place he saw in futuristic visions and his books are actually prophecies, then I may have to rethink my love of his writings. I also think that anyone who is not a fan of the genre (LDS end-times fiction) that Chad wrote, wouldn't bother to read his blog or his writings at all. MOO.

(Hopefully I didn't get us too far off on a religious tangent. I don't want to get into a debate on CS Lewis or general Christianity or the LDS church in general and get the thread shut down again-- my point is the LDS church and those around Chad are not to blame if he deceived almost everyone about his actual religious beliefs and the intent of his books. MOO. )

Agreed. I think it's valuable to try to uncover what may have spurred the actions that we know about, and to use those to figure out where the POIs and ultimately the children are.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'm not the VI but as far as I can tell Chad's books were marketed as works fiction. How would most people he goes to church with know if Chad actually believes his books are prophecies based on visions he had of the future? It seems like he only shared the fact that he believed himself to be a prophet/visionary with a select few "followers" of his. It is written in his blog posts from 2015 as well but some of the things he writes on his blog are only vague references-- it's hard to tell sometimes if he is being literal or just telling another fantastical story about how he came up with ideas for his books. I'm not LDS, but as a Christian I believe this could happen in other churches with other Christian fiction writers as well. If someone is portraying themselves as a religious fiction writer and you are a fan of that genre then you may overlook any "weird" references to things that don't exactly fit your religious beliefs. For example, I love CS Lewis writings but I don't take his Narnia series as an exact theology lesson. If CS Lewis was alive today AND suddenly started claiming to his fans that Narnia was a real place he saw in futuristic visions and his books are actually prophecies, then I may have to rethink my love of his writings. I also think that anyone who is not a fan of the genre (LDS end-times fiction) that Chad wrote, wouldn't bother to read his blog or his writings at all. MOO.

(Hopefully I didn't get us too far off on a religious tangent. I don't want to get into a debate on CS Lewis or general Christianity or the LDS church in general and get the thread shut down again-- my point is the LDS church and those around Chad are not to blame if he deceived almost everyone about his actual religious beliefs and the intent of his books. MOO. )

Oh, I'm not blaming them at all. Just curious how it got so far as to be a surprise. Around here, church people are all up in everybody's business, you know what I mean. Lol. "You guys, I wrote a song, I wrote a book, etc". Most of our shocks come from super secretive stuff. Jmo.

 

[UnknownSleuth]

I'm not the VI but as far as I can tell Chad's books were marketed as works fiction. How would most people he goes to church with know if Chad actually believes his books are prophecies based on visions he had of the future? It seems like he only shared the fact that he believed himself to be a prophet/visionary with a select few "followers" of his. It is written in his blog posts from 2015 as well but some of the things he writes on his blog are only vague references-- it's hard to tell sometimes if he is being literal or just telling another fantastical story about how he came up with ideas for his books. I'm not LDS, but as a Christian I believe this could happen in other churches with other Christian fiction writers as well. If someone is portraying themselves as a religious fiction writer and you are a fan of that genre then you may overlook any "weird" references to things that don't exactly fit your religious beliefs. For example, I love CS Lewis writings but I don't take his Narnia series as an exact theology lesson. If CS Lewis was alive today AND suddenly started claiming to his fans that Narnia was a real place he saw in futuristic visions and his books are actually prophecies, then I may have to rethink my love of his writings. I also think that anyone who is not a fan of the genre (LDS end-times fiction) that Chad wrote, wouldn't bother to read his blog or his writings at all. MOO.

(Hopefully I didn't get us too far off on a religious tangent. I don't want to get into a debate on CS Lewis or general Christianity or the LDS church in general and get the thread shut down again-- my point is the LDS church and those around Chad are not to blame if he deceived almost everyone about his actual religious beliefs and the intent of his books. MOO. )

All of his books were either works of fiction or were totally mainstream LDS non-fiction (like how to help your kids write talks to deliver in Primary (sunday school for LDS children 11 and under), until his autobiography Living on the Edge of Heaven, released May of 2017. This book, from what I understand, details two near-death experiences and clarified that what he had written as "fiction" in his earlier book series was actually taken from his visions.

The book was marketed by himself and AVOW, and at conferences and events that draw "like-minded people," and certainly read by Tammy, but I would assume it was most appealing to people mainly on AVOW/people interested in NDEs/people already a fan of his fiction works. Not to the general membership of his local congregation, who likely knew little to nothing about it. In a video of Chad, he makes reference to "his family" taking issue with his crazy beliefs. I assume he means his siblings/extended family, not his and Tammy's family. So, his family knew. But otherwise this was likely very under-the-radar for most people until, perhaps, higher up church leadership asked local leadership to keep tabs on it and monitor any progression of Chad gaining a following. MOO.

Chad's posts about his autobiography:
Living on the Edge of Heaven | cdaybell.com "Chad has since become a noted author and publisher, and he’s particularly well-known for his futuristic LDS novels that are based on what he has been shown. He has also helped several people publish books about their own near-death experiences. As you read his experiences, you’ll realize that we’re all part of an eternal family. We each have ancestors in the Spirit World who deeply care about our spiritual progress and seek to assist us in our daily lives. Chad has shared portions of his inspiring story over the years in blogs, interviews, and fireside talks, but now he has assembled them into one volume that will uplift and entertain you. His experiences demonstrate how close to heaven we truly are."

It’s Here! | cdaybell.com

 

[snoflake20]

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documen...TFmg30OLil5w1ODDgKhl9zyTKUWBvwzwoUmrFOgdiNwXc

This was posted on the LDS Energy Healing/Emotion Code exposed site. Now names/dates have been redacted and I had never heard of mormon leaks until this link, but those posting on that page, say they are LDS and have been warning people about Chad's/PAP's teachings since January 2018.

MOO I think Chad was disciplined by the church/warned, maybe around the same time that JR was excommunicated. And maybe owners of PAP was warned as well, hence the shift away from Chad (read their statement again). I think maybe family commitment that was referenced for Chad's absence easy excuse for PAP to use, that attendees wouldn't question.

JR said Chad and her had a disagreement about money in the spring, specifically that Chad want JR to pay for books he printed that I'm assuming after JR was excommunicated, Chad felt he could no longer sell. So in the spring, Chad was starting to see that his current income stream was about to dry up, and he possibly was already in debt. MOO