Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

[BigAl16]

Not an attack at all, but how in the world does that happen? Part of me rationalizes it with "well look at what some of these TV personality preachers have pulled" but his books weren't exactly top secret. Just an observation. Jmo.

The fiction is make believe, so that's not going to cause a problem. I don't think the few non-fiction books he did were an issue (this just based on glancing at the covers and description of one or two of them). The problem would have come if it became clear to the right people that Chad apparently believed his fiction was truth, but I'm thinking that was only made clear to people in the various fringe groups he was associated with where people were inclined to believe those kinds of things.

Edit: I see Unknown Sleuth already said about the same thing above. I'll second all that he or she said. MOO

 

[UnknownSleuth]

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documen...TFmg30OLil5w1ODDgKhl9zyTKUWBvwzwoUmrFOgdiNwXc

This was posted on the LDS Energy Healing/Emotion Code exposed site. Now names/dates have been redacted and I had never heard of mormon leaks until this link, but those posting on that page, say they are LDS and have been warning people about Chad's/PAP's teachings since January 2018.

MOO I think Chad was disciplined by the church/warned, maybe around the same time that JR was excommunicated. And maybe owners of PAP was warned as well, hence the shift away from Chad (read their statement again). I think maybe family commitment that was referenced for Chad's absence easy excuse for PAP to use, that attendees wouldn't question.

JR said Chad and her had a disagreement about money in the spring, specifically that Chad want JR to pay for books he printed that I'm assuming after JR was excommunicated, Chad felt he could no longer sell. So in the spring, Chad was starting to see that his current income stream was about to dry up, and he possibly was already in debt. MOO

Yep, you said much more succinctly what I was trying to say. I, too, think that the event/podcast sponsors were warned, hence finishing their announced events and then pivoting to what they now call their "five pillars of current emphasis" (see their website)--which are much more Book of Mormon/mainstream focused (if still a little fringe-y).

 

[CSIDreamer]

The fiction is make believe, so that's not going to cause a problem. I don't think the few non-fiction books he did were an issue (this just based on glancing at the covers and description of one or two of them). The problem would have come if it became clear to the right people that Chad apparently believed his fiction was truth, but I'm thinking that was only made clear to people in the various fringe groups he was associated with where people were inclined to believe those kinds of things.

Edit: I see Unknown Sleuth already said about the same thing above. I'll second all that he or she said. MOO

That may very well be. If that's the case I feel like he was walking a tightrope. And he finally fell off. Jmo.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Also, @RexburgSleuth, I apologize if it comes across as though I'm explaining directly to you a lot of ins and outs of church discipline that you are probably well aware of. I try to write things in such a way that a reader with little to no Mormon background can understand.

Here's more information for those who are not aware of the process:
What is Church Discipline?

ETA: Posted to help understand possible motives for why CD was/is doing. If he was under church discipline, it is possible that he wanted out. Hmm. I just realized if Chad's out of the podcast and conference circuit for his promotion of non-doctrinal NDE, Lori would be under scrutiny as well. This increases Chad's motive for wanting out and her motive for wanting him to stay involved.

 

[BigAl16]

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documen...TFmg30OLil5w1ODDgKhl9zyTKUWBvwzwoUmrFOgdiNwXc

This was posted on the LDS Energy Healing/Emotion Code exposed site. Now names/dates have been redacted and I had never heard of mormon leaks until this link, but those posting on that page, say they are LDS and have been warning people about Chad's/PAP's teachings since January 2018.

MOO I think Chad was disciplined by the church/warned, maybe around the same time that JR was excommunicated. And maybe owners of PAP was warned as well, hence the shift away from Chad (read their statement again). I think maybe family commitment that was referenced for Chad's absence easy excuse for PAP to use, that attendees wouldn't question.

JR said Chad and her had a disagreement about money in the spring, specifically that Chad want JR to pay for books he printed that I'm assuming after JR was excommunicated, Chad felt he could no longer sell. So in the spring, Chad was starting to see that his current income stream was about to dry up, and he possibly was already in debt. MOO

I see no reason to think this has anything to do with Chad or even the group(s) he was associated with other than the church might have the same kind of concerns with them if they got clued in to what was going on. I could see that the organization that can't be named might have heard/seen this and got a bit paranoid because of it, either because they knew the same things applied to them *or* someone could claim they do even if untrue (in their opinion) or not their intent.

FWIW, Mormonleaks (actually called the "Truth and Transparency Foundation" now, but their "archive" is still identified as Mormonleaks in the url) is very credible in the things they have. MOO.

 

[Colorado303]

Is there an LDS only dating app?

 

[snoflake20]

I see no reason to think this has anything to do with Chad or even the group(s) he was associated with other than the church might have the same kind of concerns with them if they got clued in to what was going on. I could see that the organization that can't be named might have heard/seen this and got a bit paranoid because of it, either because they knew the same things applied to them *or* someone could claim they do even if untrue (in their opinion) or not their intent.

FWIW, Mormonleaks (actually called the "Truth and Transparency Foundation" now, but their "archive" is still identified as Mormonleaks in the url) is very credible in the things they have. MOO.

Thanks for your perspective on this! I don’t know if this is specifically addressed to CD/LV or their group but I had no idea that this was something that happened in the LDS Church and it gave me some insight into how the church addresses certain matters. MOO

 

[carbuff]

Didn't one of our VIs mention that he did not live in the family home in Salem after returning from his stay in Hawaii? He and Lori were married by then, so no reason to live apart.

No, that would make the most sense, unless she moved in with him. But I don't recall hearing anything definitive either way.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

No, that would make the most sense, unless she moved in with him. But I don't recall hearing anything definitive either way.

No. Chad did not move back into the Daybell family home in Salem, nor did Lori move in with him there.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Is there an LDS only dating app?

"Mutual" is one. Might be for Provo (BYU) people. There's even one for "Ex-Mormons" called "NEW".

 

[carbuff]

I had heard of Chad Daybell as an author of fiction before this case came up -- I think I read at least one of the early novels. End-of-the-world and apocalyptic/post-apocalyptic fiction, much of it religious, is quite popular right now and has been since the 1990s. Maybe before that. I'm pretty sure I've read one of CD's books years ago, though it's hard to be sure because they really aren't very unique within the genre. I don't remember noticing anything out of line or unusual for the genre--keeping in mind that the genre itself can be fairly weird.

My only point being that even if neighbors had looked at his books, I don't think they would have found it alarming until recently.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

The release date was 9/16/2019. Don't know when it was recorded. Description mentions Chad Daybell "emerging from a spring and summer break."

Of note, his announced conference appearance in Sandy, UT on May 31-June 1, 2019 was canceled on short notice "due to a family emergency." And then, he had also been announced as a facilitator at a Dreams & Visions workshop on June 29 in Rexburg, but was replaced by another of the visionaries whose book he published. There was another event in Rexburg on September 20 or 21, of which he was not a part. MOO, but something happened to "break" the relationship with the event sponsors in late May 2019. But what? @RexburgSleuth , are you aware of any family emergency last spring?

The event sponsors walk a fine line of wanting to stay on the good side of the mainstream church. The past shows that they quickly disavow any of their speakers who receive church disciplinary action. I have wondered if Chad did in fact face a church disciplinary council in the spring, that did not result in disfellowshipment or excommunication, but may have resulted in informal probation or (more likely) formal probation. Formal probation results in consequences that are at the discretion of the member's local leaders. They can be removed from their church calling, or can keep it. Any thoughts, RexburgSleuth?

With other disciplinary councils happening to associated individuals around this time, and also some high profile "Christ-centered energy healing" gurus unexpectedly publicly disavowing energy healing this year, I wonder if there has been a coordinated crackdown on some of this stuff. The party line is that disciplinary action is solely in the hands of local leadership, not coordinated or directed from higher up in church leadership. But with so many happening all at once, I wonder...

Of note, disciplinary action of fringe believers tends to push most people further to the fringes, because they think surely the mainstream church has lost its way if they can't see the pure intent and god-given mission of the fringe-y member. If there was a council, it could be yet another catalyst in everything that played out.

MOO

MOO You are on to something with regards to maybe a crack down on fringe groups and pulling people in to meet with church leadership.( Ward level or Stake) So say Chad was pulled in, he probably lied through his teeth, they kept him as Executive Secretary (to keep eye on him and not offend him but not let him teach Gospel Doctrine either) He considers himself above all others and so much smarter that he would see Bishop so and so beneath him anyway.

 

[carbuff]

No. Chad did not move back into the Daybell family home in Salem, nor did Lori move in with him there.

Thank you!

 

[utahobserver]

Maricopa County Court.
Family Court Case Information - Case History

Thank you!

 

[tresir2012]

Melani's idea, or *someone's* idea that she should collect it. (And the family source said she thought that was the motivation.) We don't know what knowledge/involvement Melani had in the planning or the attempt, though her association or involvement with it was enough that it affected her custody case and Brandon got full custody even after her message about moving to "Boise" and wanting shared custody (kids to go back and forth on breaks, in either direction).

My speculation (and you can decide whether I have anything to base this on)...

Melani met her new spouse online in late October/November *after* moving to Rexburg. I don't know if "online" means AVOW or if it means regular online dating apps. Likely in the divorce she was granted spousal support, but not child support as she was not the custodial parent. Upon getting married she would very likely lose spousal support. By meeting this spouse, she would also learn about his own divorce/custody/financial arrangement with his ex (and hear about his lawyer, who is now Chad Daybell's lawyer and does both criminal defense and family law). There is likely a financial motivation to get some custody of her kids and the accompanying financial support. But I hope against hope she also wants to be with her kids more! She reportedly is still living in Rexburg in the third townhouse that was searched, and has been seen in person in her local LDS ward. I can't speculate whether she is or isn't cooperating with LE, but signs point to the idea that she is trying to normalize her life, at least somewhat, and that may be a sign she might be cooperative.

To the person who said maybe she got legally remarried to strengthen her custody case, I'm not sure how much a hasty remarriage in Vegas to a recently-divorced guy with a domestic violence/protection order violation in his recent past really paints a picture of stability, but maybe [shrug].

(MOO)

Very useful info. So MB is the "sister" who was in the 3rd searched apartment. Well now AC is dead the attempted shooting of BB will probably be blamed on him so that she is in the clear unless the footage incriminates her. If the shooter was recognisable, then I wonder why no arrest was made?

 

[FindingJoLee]

The same source claims that, while Charles was still alive, Lori and Alex were discussing how they were going to spend the money acquired after Charles' death. Suposedly Alex stopped working because he expected to profit from it.

There were conversations between them about what to do about Joe, and the implication of your comment is that there were also conversations between them about what to do about Charles. So, it would surprise me if Alex didn't figure that some money could come his way from shooting his brother-in-law in self-defense.

 

[tresir2012]

So the kids at first didn't exist (per Chad's word to his family), but now they're fine?

I don't buy Chad's excuse that he didn't know about the kid's existence for a second. It was reported that him and Lori both (together?) told the story of Tylee being dead to multiple people.

So LE visit Lori and Chad on Nov 26th to ask about the kids and are sent on a wild goose chase to Az. Then they both leave town by the time LE return on 27th Nov and LE search 3 apartments. So Chad had to know about the kids at this time, so when did they lie to family about the kids? After this date or before?

 

[UnknownSleuth]

I see no reason to think this has anything to do with Chad or even the group(s) he was associated with other than the church might have the same kind of concerns with them if they got clued in to what was going on. I could see that the organization that can't be named might have heard/seen this and got a bit paranoid because of it, either because they knew the same things applied to them *or* someone could claim they do even if untrue (in their opinion) or not their intent.

FWIW, Mormonleaks (actually called the "Truth and Transparency Foundation" now, but their "archive" is still identified as Mormonleaks in the url) is very credible in the things they have. MOO.

The documents are certainly not about CD, but they do mention AVOW as a place where these things get started. Mainly the documents are instructive as to what may have been going on behind the scenes as far the mainstream church's response to CD, on both a local and headquarters level. Also, the beliefs and behaviors of the members described in the documents have a lot of similarities to things that have been reported in the CD/LV case. They were all drinking from the same fountain, IMO. The LDS Energy Healing Exposed FB has a good (but long) explanation that refers to these groups as a hydra-cult, and I find that very accurate. No one, true charismatic leader. Instead, many-headed, with a new one or two springing up each time one is cut off.

 

[tresir2012]

On the other hand, if his wife told him her daughter had died, why would he question it? It's not the kind of thing that people normally lie about.

Well Lori was living in Rexburg with the kids until 24th Sept. The podcast they did together was dated Sept and they were having an affair well before that (18 months?) according to Charles' family so Chad must have known both about the divorce proceedings he was implicated in that later got cancelled by Charles and the existence of.the children IMO. So he must have lied about the children. He must have known about the shooting of Charles in July as well. When exactly did the divorce proceedings get cancelled? Perhaps Chad's May family emergency was the possibility of being cited in an upcoming divorce court case? He was leading a double life. AJMO.

 

[Rush4087]

MOO/speculation:

Although I still think that there is perhaps a religious reason or cult belief behind the seeming "urgency to re-marry" which we have seen with Lori and CD, AC and ZP, MB and IP, and possibly others (conceivably having to do with a Jul 2020 end-of-the-world or invasion event - or some other requirement that they "gather" quickly, or return to a city of refuge, or build a tent city, or go to Zion, or whatever - before such an event happens), I think those who have suggested that we should "follow the money" - not so much in regard to the divorces, but in regard to the deaths - might be onto something.

Although it occurred before Lori got into CD's books, she did receive $75,000 as a result of JR's death. If Lori knew in advance that she was going to receive $75,000 in the event of JR's death, that would have possibly provided at least one motive for her wanting him dead (among the other reasons which have now been identified: the nearly decade long custody battle for Tylee, JR perhaps wanting to terminate other financial assistance or payments to Lori related to divorce, etc.). Maybe there was even still a threat that JR might choose to sue AC for the earlier taser and physical assault (though I admit that by then several years had passed). Just speculating.

And if Lori thought she was possibly in-line to collect $2,000,000 as beneficiary of CV's life insurance policy as well as possibly inherit a house (or 2) and several vehicles in the event of CV's death, that would certainly seem to have presented at least one very big motive for her maybe wanting CV dead [other motives perhaps included: maintaining custody of at least JJ (and otherwise avoiding the loss of benefits), possibly avoiding having to give back (or split) the $35,0000 she stole from CV's business, her possibly avoiding confinement in a mental institution, her possibly avoiding felony theft charges with regard to vehicles, phones, laptop, etc., and of course her being free to marry CD]. Even if Lori learned (or suspected) that CV had recently changed the beneficiary designation on his 2m life insurance policies to someone else, she might have thought that CV likely attempted to redirect those benefits to benefit the children (which would then maybe allow those benefits to Lori in the event of the children's death..). Of course maybe he just cancelled the policies, idk.

If MB thought she would likewise receive insurance proceeds from BB's life insurance policies in the event of BB's death, certainly this would have possibly given her motive to want BB killed. At the time of the attempted shooting, I don't think MB had yet written the "I don't want the children" text, so she might have also been expecting to inherit BB's assets if he was to somehow die before they divorced. I assume MB may have also wanted BB dead just so that she could marry IP (in a hurry). Rather than "in-an-effort-to-claim-custody" of her kids (at least the 2 that were biologically her's), it could be that the real purpose of MB and AC's trespass at BB's parent's farm in Utah (which I think occurred before her marriage to IP) was to somehow do away with BB (and the kids..) - perhaps in a scenario not unlike that which ended CV's life ("self defense!"). Lori may have even given MB the idea ("see how this works?"). BB certainly feared for his life and the lives of his children.

If CD truly did raise the coverage amounts of TD's existing life insurance policies
and/or purchase additional policies on her life (though I don't think we know this to be a fact), that would certainly have given CD reason to want TD dead, or perhaps even to have her mysteriously killed. Setting up a phony attempted murder via a paintball incident might've been an attempt to mislead authorities into thinking someone was perhaps out to harm TD. And if he was planning to marry Lori (which in retrospect is now obvious), this would've also given CD reason to want TD dead (and in a hurry).
Just speculating.

In addition to the possibility that AC knew too much, Lori (and CD - as they had just gotten married) might've been in-line to benefit financially from AC's death. Who knows what life insurance or other assets AC might have had? Given the relationship between the two siblings, it would not be a stretch to think that Lori might've perhaps been in-line to receive life insurance benefits or inherit other assets in the event of AC's untimely demise.

Lastly (though there may be more that I'm not thinking of) Lori possibly could have even been in a position to benefit financially in the event of the children's death. It's pure speculation, but she might have assumed that any assets which the children had perhaps previously received following JR's death and/or CV's death would then go to her in the event of the children's death. She could've even had life insurance policies on them..

If stealing or raising money was perhaps the real motive behind some of these "deaths" (or possible attempted murders), the money might not have been just for Lori's, or MB's, or CD's personal gain. Maybe the money was being sought to help (them and/or others) "prepare a place" ahead of the end times which they apparently felt were right around the corner. Jmo.