Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

[Gardener1850]

I'm trying to keep up here, but missing pages because it's moving quickly and -- well, life. Does anyone know if WS got enough donations to pay for the server today or do they need more?

@Tricia see holsen's question above.

I hope we kept the WS lights on.

 

[LHS]

Continuing with the theme of why it may be that (at least some of) those self-regard themselves as most strongly Mormon are most susceptible to the kinds of claims Chad and Lori have made:

The LDS church is not unique in the tension between order and personal revelatory guidance, but it may experience this tension particularly strongly.

The LDS church was built on claims of revelation, by Joseph Smith as the founding prophet, and by those who first accepted his claims. The idea was that the heavens had once again opened themselves and that new light and knowledge would be poured out to benefit the world through the LDS gospel. Even today, members are taught that they need to develop a personal assurance of LDS claims through the workings on God's spirit to each person. Latter-day Saints speak of "being receptive to the spirit" as one element of a maturing faith. Mormons expect God to help lead them through important life decisions.

Yet at the same time, the church, again from almost the beginning, realized that a community in which every member had personal access to God's revelation and inspiration could be quite chaotic. It quickly instituted ways (through priesthood offices, in particular), in which there would be order and a sense of authority/hierarchy as to whose revelatory ideas took precedence, and in which situations.

While most LDS members manage to function well within this tension, the promise of a more vibrant revelatory community, with more frequent and profound insight being revealed by God, beckons others. They yearn to return to the type of situation when new revelations were coming to Joseph Smith monthly or weekly, or where revelatory proclamations about the Second Coming and other visions from more ordinary members were taken more seriously.

While the church tries to insist that it still has the same access to God that Joseph Smith did, when the most important recent claims to revelation pertain to things like the age at which missionaries are eligible to be sent and the shortening of the meeting schedule from 3 to 2 hours, not all members are satisfied. Some want to believe that God is willing to tell us more, perhaps much more, if we're just willing to listen. For some of these people, MOO, while they still genuinely respect church leadership and sense of order in most ordinary cases, they are willing to go beyond the official word of the church in their own personal study and understanding. They do not feel that they are going against the church when they write a book about what the spirit has told them about the end of days, or if they join together with other likeminded individuals on the internet to discuss what their visions may mean. Though the institutional church discourages the thought that not all important revelatory truth will come through the leadership hierarchy, there is enough in LDS scriptures/history for some to justify the idea. (to be continued ...)

Thank you. You have very eloquently expressed exactly what I've been trying to find a way to put into words myself. This tension you mentioned is indeed a big factor in people choosing as they do. This is a very well thought through and expressed post. (both parts)

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Hi, a newbie here.

Have lurked from almost the beginning in this thread. But came for reasons that may be slightly different.

By inclination, I'm not a sleuther. I'll probably never go to any other WS threads. I came here because I noticed there was talk about Chad Daybell.

I perked up my ears on this case because over a decade ago I had just finished writing a series of academic papers on Mormon last days beliefs/speculations/ideas, particularly on how these beliefs might relate to current-day politics and ideas about particular places within the world. I happened to notice that Daybell was apparently just beginning to be involved in this much older genre. One of my most enlightening tasks (and discouraging at the same time, as someone who has never been into this stuff), was to compare LDS novels about the end times to evangelical Christian novels about the same topic (particularly the Left Behind series).

I never ended up reading Daybell, as that particular episode of my academic career ended just before I noticed his involvement in these kinds of things. I had thought that the most significant thing that would emerge from this genre was the election of Chris Stewart as a US congressperson from Utah. Stewart, unlike Daybell, was generally accepted within mainstream Mormonism (he had the imprimatur of Deseret Book, for example) and his series of novels about the last days seems to have been one of the things (in addition to his Air Force career) that put him on the map for election from Utah. Unfortunately, this Daybell case now is a second case where these last-days writings for an LDS audience helped to propel someone to greater fame.

I will stress that I am not an insider in this particular missing-children/etc case. My interest comes from three things:

a) being someone with social science/humanistic training who has long been interested in applying this training to understanding the LDS community

b) being an active LDS member

c) having some proximity to many of the places involved through life experience (Arizona, Utah, Hawaii, Idaho), though nothing that would give me any personal insight into the people involved in this case

I've been impressed by the discussion here on Websleuths, particularly in sorting out some of the distinctive LDS elements that may provide context to the case. I've seen many discussions elsewhere in which people on the differing sides of the LDS/non-LDS divide are unable to productively listen and talk to each other. Thankfully, that hasn't been the case here.

I do occasionally have a slightly different perspective than some of the other LDS commenters here, and so while I don't expect to be a frequent commenter, there are some things that have been floating around the discussion (esp. today) that I'd like to give my perspective on. So if you're not interested in this type of perspective, please just ignore me from now on.

I, personally, think your contributions to this conversation could be valuable so, please, stick around.

 

[Anonymous91]

I'm not sure this is the post I want to enter this thought about so apologies to Gardener, but here goes:

I think we are giving too much credence to the groups that shall not be named for posting that they have spoken to CD and are vindicated, or that they know CD and LV or sealed, or that they know which penny stocks to invest in, or whatever else they are shoveling on their websites.

If they don't post something self serving they lose income everyday this goes on because the subscription fees are drying up. If they post "VINDICATED" with nothing to back it up some portion of their audience pays another month of fees to see what that means. If they post LV and CD are sealed some stick around and pay the subscription fee to see how that was possible. Self serving.

I don't see that groups that can't be named are more truthful or moral or trustworthy than CD and I see no reason to believe what they post about their alleged discussions with CD, edited and translated (no pun intended) from multiple texts, emails, phone calls boiled down to a few sentences full of subterfuge on the website actually have anything to do with CD. They are protecting their income stream by publishing whatever they think keeps subscriptions up.

MOO

Actually, even if they are found guilty they can easily spin this.

If I had to take a guess on how they would do this, they would compare their hardships to the "early pioneers", or possibly refer to the Haun's Mill Massacre. They will want to portray themselves as the victim. This plays on people's emotions, and opens the door to being manipulated.

That's how it will start, then they will just keep spinning the narrative from there. MOO

 

[KonaHonu]

I am not sure about this and maybe someone can clarify? Was Chad not brought in for interrogation at all when Lori was arrested? He just watched as she got whisked away? I guess if only Idaho has the need to question him then that would make sense since he's not done anything chargeable in Hawaii - other than those jeans he wears.

Yup. Been surprised to learn that he has not been arrested for wearing long pants within 1 mile of the shoreline.

And what did he mean by "I can't say" when asked if the kids are ok?

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Marcus Moore on Twitter
Opps! Just realized this was a comment to Marcus Moore not a post from him..Read in his twitter comments. I am looking for the his station out of Dallas

 

[Onsdag]

So if LV didn’t think she needed to wear the under garments any more, would this affect her credibility with her inner group? Is there a chance they’re discussing whether she’s wearing them as much as we are? Just interested as to whether this will get them (who may know more details about the kids) questioning who they are to believe? MOO

I honestly don't know. I would hope the fact that we have a couple of missing children, several deaths under mysterious circumstances, an attempted murder, POI's obstructing investigations and running, proven lies, and every other sordid detail surrounding this case would get people to realize something is amiss and start questioning things more than what a person is or isn't wearing. But hey, if that helps tip someone over the edge then I'm all for it. MOO.

 

[Gardener1850]

I haven't seen this video posted. ABC World News had some footage of Lori and Chad at the airport. Lori seems to be videoing the news crew with her phone. It looks like possibly the day they got back from Maui?

World News Tonight
@ABCWorldNews
CHILLING SURVEILLANCE IMAGE: A home security camera in Idaho captured what is believed to be the last sighting of one of two missing children in Idaho as their mother remains behind bars in Hawaii.
@marcusmoore
has the story. https://abcn.ws/2T6pXQ0
1:40
11:00 PM · Feb 23, 2020

World News Tonight on Twitter

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Marcus Moore on Twitter
Opps! Just realized this was a comment to Marcus Moore not a post from him..Read in his twitter comments. I am looking for the his station out of Dallas

Hoping he verifies it and reposts. Moo.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

I'm being prompted to write that when KW said the last time she face-timed with JJ, it was clear that someone was giving off-screen prompts for him to end the call very quickly, which he did. This prompts me to believe that these off-screen promptings were to keep him from revealing something...like just the move to Idaho, or...what?

Btw, I'd like an answer to my question...and I mean promptly.

Yeah, great posting about prompts, it is not my place or desire to speak to personal experience regarding religious prompts but I appreciated the post. MOO

 

[KonaHonu]

We know for certain the Madison County DA has Chad for criminal solicitation for his phone call to MG asking her to lie that she has JJ and would charge him with that as soon as he is in Idaho. It is a misdemeanor but what is the seriousness, in terms of potential jail time?

A misdemeanor usually is defined as having less than 1 year in jail and less than a $1000 fine. I know people get prosecuted for misdemeanors all the time. But given that Chad is suspected of being involved in several murders, I doubt anyone if focusing on the misdemeanors at this point.

 

[kye0001]

Marcus Moore on Twitter

I hope for the kids sakes he’s right. IMO there’s no reason for not showing a picture of the children holding a dated piece of newspaper...unless they look abused/neglected/dead. I hope that’s not the case but I don’t believe a word any of them says. If they do turn up safe I really hope someone prevents him publishing a book on it. They should not be allowed to profit from any of this. MOO

 

[jjenny]

You have to charge with what you can prove, not with what you suspect but can't prove.

 

[mickey2942]

I sort of want Chad to bolt.

"Run, Chad, Ruuuuun".

 

[kye0001]

I honestly don't know. I would hope the fact that we have a couple of missing children, several deaths under mysterious circumstances, an attempted murder, POI's obstructing investigations and running, proven lies, and every other sordid detail surrounding this case would get people to realize something is amiss and start questioning things more than what a person is or isn't wearing. But hey, if that helps tip someone over the edge than I'm all for it. MOO.

I understand you on that one. I couldn’t care less if she isn’t wearing any underwear at all, I’m more interested in finding the kids. If the missing kids, dead exes didn’t convince people just hoping the lack of undies might MOO

 

[SuziQ]

Dbm

 

[SuziQ]

Dbm

 

[lonetraveler]

I've been busy on the Gannon thread and have only dropped in a few times but watched news on this case. Question: did Chad inherit the baggie of money or did LE keep it?

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Marcus Moore
Marcus Moore is a National Reporter for ABC News. I will now add him to my follow closely list

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Then what are they renting out at the temple?

I found out I cant even look at the LDS clothes for sale at their church store unless I register. Jmo

Again, the garments are considered protective. It’s not secretive but more sacred, based on LDS beliefs. Not everyone has access to purchase them and that’s all I can offer. Regarding this case, I don’t believe the temple garments are relative because, relatively speaking, they physically could be an encumbrance for certain members wearing them. MOO