Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15

[DoctorAttorney]

Any school would cooperate with LEO and notify that the children are in the school. Schools, camps, even private facilities are licensed by the state, and they have to follow same guidelines, such as mandatory reporting to CPS. I don't see any business risking their license for LD.

Plus, employees talk. You couldn't get enough folks to stay quiet about this.

Okay.

 

[KonaHonu]

Yes but...MOO, I am no legal expert...all the assets are under the sole control of LV the second the death certificate for CV is issued. The estate goes to probate where an executor is appointed and people or businesses can try to get some of the money, but that takes time. Before those legal moves are made she could have made off with everything.

I hope someone with legal training or with experience here can chime in, I'm in over my head. The only experience I have is in a "common law" state and not a community property state.

No, it does not work that way. For community property which, after 13 years of marriage will be most things, yes, she has immediate control. But retirement plans, life insurance (depending on various factors) there would need to be probate.

From what I have heard here, CV was a Texas resident at death so his property and estate will be decided under Texas law. Texas is a community property state so Lori will most likely get the lion's share. His kids from prior marriages will probably get something as well.

 

[KonaHonu]

I know this much, Lori likes to spend money, and live well. Hawaii ain't cheap! Staying at the Marriott resort eats money! Jeez, a cup of coffee is $9.00. (Although, as LDS folks, they probably don't drink coffee).

Check the price of milk though!

 

[bmacmillan1]

Wondering if they even have a longer term plan worked out? How long can their relationship sustain this fugitive lifestyle before it all falls apart.

 

[KonaHonu]

February 16,2020

Nate Eaton - Reporter

Nate Eaton - Reporter
33 mins ·
ON THE MOVE? Multiple sources tell me Chad and Lori Daybell left Kauai today around 2 p.m. Hawaii time. Many passengers and airport workers recognized them and they were apparently headed to Maui. Folks in Kauai are tired of having them on the island - in fact, a photo of this sign hanging near Walmart says "Where are the Children?" I don't know if they had one-way tickets or plan to return. And what happens next is anyone's guess... (by the way - if you see the Daybells or have information about them, send me a message. You can remain anonymous and chat off-the-record if you wish).

OMG! My partner's family lives on Maui and she is descended from the Maui kings. If Lori thinks she had a hard time on Kauai she is in for a big surprise. No threat, just Kauai is the gentle isle. Maui is the pummel-you isle! So much more I could say but I would give away too much personal information. Suffice it to say that if they are really heading to Maui I don't think their stay will be long or pleasant. I'm gonna send a couple of texts and make popcorn!

 

[Friday Fan]

I think it's eminently possible they are non-law-abiding camps being referred to:

Students Recall Special Schools Run Like Jails

We had those in Texas. I think they called them bootcamps. They are money making ventures which prey on families with rich, troubled kids. Like Kona stated every so often a student dies. I don't think there is any affiliation with LDS, except maybe the CEO is Mormon.

 

[KonaHonu]

I'd argue that killing the kids or putting them in a prepper camp is even more dangerous than finding a different location for them. Killing the kids doesn't work because it's leaving the two dependents to follow you around forever like a media weight; you could have just given the boy to his grandparents and let the teen girl age out of your care. Meanwhile the prepper crowd would turn the kids in quick for a bundle to buy the second generator...

But say you had the money to hide some kids away, and even do it legally and call it therapy for them... It's evil, but it's the kind of evil someone like Lori who hates conflict and tells wild lies would have perfect access to from a geographical standpoint.

I can't completely agree or disagree. Putting them with a prepper camp I think is dangerous. They have such an easy out, give JJ to K&L and wait out Tylee's majority. It makes no sense to throw it all away by committing serious crimes.

 

[mrjitty]

Of course you do. Once an Idaho court takes away her custody away she is, according to you, committing a felony. But until she actually KNOWS that fact through service of process, she cannot possibly have the criminal intent to be committing a crime. It may be different where you practice. But in the US, simply violating the written elements does not constitute a crime. You need, intent, notice, and so forth depending on the crime.

BIB

This is a pretty significant misrepresentation of what i posted.

1. Criminal offences are defined by actus reus - i.e the physical elements/actions of the offence

2. If you commit the acts, with requisite intent you, commit the felony - end of story. So if the kids remain hidden (let's assume), then she will commit the felony where it is her intent to deprive the state of its custodial rights.

'Due process' is not directly part of the offence I am afraid. What is of course always relevant is mens rea - i.e intent.

As I already posted, the Judge's order of itself does not trigger the felony. Rather LV will commit a felony when she first knowingly acts to deprive the state of its custodial rights. In other words, the Judge will order that LV reveal the location of the children to law enforcement so that they can be brought into the state's custody. When she fails to so reveal, she commits the felony. I already stated as much.

We should also note that in the case of State of Idaho vs Vallow our liberatarian damsel is already being afforded all due process and is no doubt represented. Indeed the case is national news. One doubts she can pretend to avoid knowledge of the outcome by refusing to speak to her lawyer

But of course, the legal system has seen every stripe of absconder down the years and was not born yesterday. Law Enforcement will arrive on her doorstep to enforce custody rights pursuant to the Court orders, no doubt with a copy in hand. That will be all the notice that LV ought to be afforded.

Let's not pretend she needs days or weeks of notice to give up the game. She only need say the word.

In my highly over valued opinion, when she does not do so, she will knowingly commit a felony offence.

 

[KonaHonu]

OK, Sleuthers, who do we have on the ground in Maui? lol

I have STRONG connections on Maui. If things get too heated I'll get them excited. Each island is like a small town so it is important to be careful and not get anyone in trouble. Some of the people I know are not beyond confronting them and finding out where the kids are through "traditional" means. And some of those I'm referring to might work for MPD.

My connections on Kauai are more as a tourist and my involvement on the Big Island is as a non-native resident. The connections I have on Maui are through my partner and are very native, traditional, and historical. Best if I say no more about that.

I'll post what I find out but my information is most likely to come from here.

 

[mrjitty]

I'd argue that killing the kids or putting them in a prepper camp is even more dangerous than finding a different location for them. Killing the kids doesn't work because it's leaving the two dependents to follow you around forever like a media weight; you could have just given the boy to his grandparents and let the teen girl age out of your care. Meanwhile the prepper crowd would turn the kids in quick for a bundle to buy the second generator...

But say you had the money to hide some kids away, and even do it legally and call it therapy for them... It's evil, but it's the kind of evil someone like Lori who hates conflict and tells wild lies would have perfect access to from a geographical standpoint.

The problem i have with this scenario is who exactly would want to take all this heat to keep the kids hidden?

I mean maybe such a person exists but it seems increasingly unlikely.

 

[mrjitty]

February 16,2020

Nate Eaton - Reporter

Nate Eaton - Reporter
33 mins ·
ON THE MOVE? Multiple sources tell me Chad and Lori Daybell left Kauai today around 2 p.m. Hawaii time. Many passengers and airport workers recognized them and they were apparently headed to Maui. Folks in Kauai are tired of having them on the island - in fact, a photo of this sign hanging near Walmart says "Where are the Children?" I don't know if they had one-way tickets or plan to return. And what happens next is anyone's guess... (by the way - if you see the Daybells or have information about them, send me a message. You can remain anonymous and chat off-the-record if you wish).

I wonder if we will see them leave Hawaii now

 

[KonaHonu]

BIB

This is a pretty significant misrepresentation of what i posted.

1. Criminal offences are defined by actus reus - i.e the physical elements/actions of the offence

2. If you commit the acts, with requisite intent you, commit the felony - end of story. So if the kids remain hidden (let's assume), then she will commit the felony where it is her intent to deprive the state of its custodial rights.

'Due process' is not directly part of the offence I am afraid. What is of course always relevant is mens rea - i.e intent.
As I already posted, the Judge's order of itself does not trigger the felony. Rather LV will commit a felony when she first knowingly acts to deprive the state of its custodial rights. In other words, the Judge will order that LV reveal the location of the children to law enforcement so that they can be brought into the state's custody. When she fails to so reveal, she commits the felony. I already stated as much.

We should also note that in the case of State of Idaho vs Vallow our liberatarian damsel is already being afforded all due process and is no doubt represented. Indeed the case is national news. One doubts she can pretend to avoid knowledge of the outcome by refusing to speak to her lawyer

But of course, the legal system has seen every stripe of absconder down the years and was not born yesterday. Law Enforcement will arrive on her doorstep to enforce custody rights pursuant to the Court orders, no doubt with a copy in hand. That will be all the notice that LV ought to be afforded.

Let's not pretend she needs days or weeks of notice to give up the game. She only need say the word.

In my highly over valued opinion, when she does not do so, she will knowingly commit a felony offence.

Apologies if I misrepresented what you posted. That was not my intent. Your response though seems to argue my basic points. Lori is obligated under law to comply with a judge's order to surrender custody or commit a felony. She does not become a felon when she fails to comply with the law when she actually fails to surrender custody pursuant to the letter of the law. She becomes a felon when she fails to surrender custody after being served notice she must do so and being given adequate time to do so. That is what I originally argued and seems to be what you are now saying. If I failed to state my position clearly originally I apologize.

In my opinion the kids are either dead or stashed away safely. In either case, the custodial interference is manufactured by the court. I think these two and possibly more belong in jail. So I'm not defending them.

 

[KonaHonu]

Something tells me Chad never had much of a sex life before Lori. Sure he had 5 kids, but you know what I mean....MOO

You mean he had sex 5 times?

 

[mrjitty]

I think at this point what we are watching is based on lust. I think Chad and Lori see the "prepper" type people as a vulnerable group of people to extract money from. At this point, neither Chad nor Lori are actually walking the walk or talking the talk of people that believe anything to do with any of this. MOO.

That's my feeling as well.

Chad seems more like a garden variety grifter. Then he meant a dangerous psychopath who validated his narcissism.

The toxic combination of their personalities led to tragedy.

 

[mrjitty]

Apologies if I misrepresented what you posted. That was not my intent. Your response though seems to argue my basic points. Lori is obligated under law to comply with a judge's order to surrender custody or commit a felony. She does not become a felon when she fails to comply with the law when she actually fails to surrender custody pursuant to the letter of the law. She becomes a felon when she fails to surrender custody after being served notice she must do so and being given adequate time to do so. That is what I originally argued and seems to be what you are now saying. If I failed to state my position clearly originally I apologize.

In my opinion the kids are either dead or stashed away safely. In either case, the custodial interference is manufactured by the court. I think these two and possibly more belong in jail. So I'm not defending them.

I think we disagree in that I don't see some kind of formal service of notice as critical. Nor does she require any time.

Knowledge is the only issue.

So as soon as she knows the state has custody, she will commit a felony when she refuses to tell LE where the kids are. Personally I think it will be a bit difficult for her to pretend to not know the result of the case, but in any event LE will bring a copy of the order when they arrive on the doorstep.

 

[KonaHonu]

I wonder if we will see them leave Hawaii now

I hope they come to the Big Island next!

 

[KonaHonu]

I think we disagree in that I don't see some kind of formal service of notice as critical. Nor does she require any time.

Knowledge is the only issue.

So as soon as she knows the state has custody, she will commit a felony when she refuses to tell LE where the kids are. Personally I think it will be a bit difficult for her to pretend to not know the result of the case, but in any event LE will bring a copy of the order when they arrive on the doorstep.

Ok. I agree that knowledge is the issue. But at least in the US, service is how knowledge is communicated. Clearly she has no obligation to monitor the court actions of every state, especially when the court actively secrets those actions, which it is doing in this case. So the only reasonable way for her to have knowledge of her obligation to surrender custody is when she is notified through formal legal process service. And once she is notified, you seem to suggest that one second later, or perhaps one microsecond, she becomes a felon because she has not complied. That cannot possibly be the case. She would have to have adequate time to comply. Given the issues of travel, that could literally take weeks.

 

[KonaHonu]

So as soon as she knows the state has custody, she will commit a felony when she refuses to tell LE where the kids are. Personally I think it will be a bit difficult for her to pretend to not know the result of the case, but in any event LE will bring a copy of the order when they arrive on the doorstep.

No. that is the point when her appeal rights begin. If she discloses their whereabouts the appeal becomes moot, right. So withholding that information is a legal necessity not a felony.

mrjitty, I don't dislike you nor do I think you are wrong. My point is that Lori has a lot of arguable stuff that can drag out well beyond her expected end times.

 

[KonaHonu]

The problem i have with this scenario is who exactly would want to take all this heat to keep the kids hidden?

I mean maybe such a person exists but it seems increasingly unlikely.

There is a billionaire indirectly connected to our case who supports causes that are relevant. Can't say more because of rules.

 

[mrjitty]

Ok. I agree that knowledge is the issue. But at least in the US, service is how knowledge is communicated. Clearly she has no obligation to monitor the court actions of every state, especially when the court actively secrets those actions, which it is doing in this case. So the only reasonable way for her to have knowledge of her obligation to surrender custody is when she is notified through formal legal process service.

I agree it is one way for her to have knowledge. But the question is rather, did she have actual knowledge? So while I agree no law says she must monitor a court action in which she is most likely represented by counsel, it will be hard to pretend she doesn't know the outcome.

And once she is notified, you seem to suggest that one second later, or perhaps one microsecond, she becomes a felon because she has not complied. That cannot possibly be the case. She would have to have adequate time to comply. Given the issues of travel, that could literally take weeks.

Again the scenario I am specifically suggesting is that local LE will arrive on the doorstep, with a copy of the Court order, and say "Mrs Vallow/Daybill, the Court of Idaho has assumed emergency custody. Here is the order and we are now here to enforce it. Please immediately advise where the children are"

At the moment she refuses to tell them, she commits a felony and she can no longer deny knowledge.

Nor does she require time to comply. She can answer immediately.

It is the action of continuing to keep the location hidden that is the actus reus. She need only say where they are. so LE can go get them. She does not need to bring them to Hawaii, not travel to where they are.