IDI and RDI, what do they agree upon?

[Tadpole12]

Do you believe that some words are exclusively college level? Which ones?

Hi Hotyh,

No, not at all.
SAT is a uni or college-preparatory.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hi Hotyh,

No, not at all.
SAT is a uni or college-preparatory.

OK I wonder if RDI would agree: no exclusively college-level words in the RN.

 

[DeeDee249]

Thanks for that SD.

The quote is actually, "Mild narrowing of the sulci and flattening of the gyri are seen. No inflammation is identified."

Wouldn't you have thought that such an injury would induce massive swelling of the brain if nothing else?

I can see I need to do more research into this - something's not right IMO.

Well, the layman might think so, but forensic specialists that have analyzed this report feel it was because she didn't live long enough for the swelling to become more severs. Actually, had she lived longer, her whole head and face would have been visibly swollen too, and that was not reported.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hi Hotyh.

iirc ST commented that the rn was comprised of 'magic words'.

So much can be seen.

It's the patternng of gramatical errors, the repetitive nature of the errors, the vocab groupings, the dialogue, the thematic inclusion of the number three ie is threefold, that are distinguishable and reminiscent of an exercise in creative writing. The rn can be seen as an expansion of a 'standard' text.



The rn is brimming with french thoughts (a group of individuals/un groupe d'individus, represent) and french rooted words, perhaps that patterning reflects a speaker of any romantic language. Brevity in sentence structure and repetition are patterns of ESL.

If ESL, your vocabulary is limited; you use simplistic terms. the words you know, within your limited vocabulary.

Now you're talking!

 

[MurriFlower]

Well, the layman might think so, but forensic specialists that have analyzed this report feel it was because she didn't live long enough for the swelling to become more severs. Actually, had she lived longer, her whole head and face would have been visibly swollen too, and that was not reported.

Hmm, I thought someone posted (SD perhaps?) that there was quite a large frame of time between the head bash and the strangling (that is an estimate presumably by the ME). I'm thinking it was estimated between 1-2 hours.

This still troubles me, the lack of external bruising, the lack of visible swelling, the lack of blood from either the wound or ear/nose. I'm really thinking now that the reason was that there was probably less than minutes from the bash to the strangle. In other words they followed as quickly as could be. That the strangle was not to finish her off, but rather that this was just a part of the killing and maybe even occurred at the same time.

 

[BBB167893]

Hmm, I thought someone posted (SD perhaps?) that there was quite a large frame of time between the head bash and the strangling (that is an estimate presumably by the ME). I'm thinking it was estimated between 1-2 hours.

Yes, the estimate is 20-60 minutes.

This still troubles me, the lack of external bruising, the lack of visible swelling, the lack of blood from either the wound or ear/nose. I'm really thinking now that the reason was that there was probably less than minutes from the bash to the strangle. In other words they followed as quickly as could be. That the strangle was not to finish her off, but rather that this was just a part of the killing and maybe even occurred at the same time.

I don't know, MurriFlower. The docs were pretty sure.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, the estimate is 20-60 minutes.



I don't know, MurriFlower. The docs were pretty sure.

Which docs (not witch docs)?

The story probably depends on which docs are selected.

I would tend to agree with Murriflower's opinion:

that the strangle was not to finish her off, but rather that this was just a part of the killing and maybe even occurred at the same time.

 

[BBB167893]

Which docs (not witch docs)?

Specifically, Henry Lee, Tom Henry, Ronald Wright, Kerry Brega and Werner Spitz.

I would tend to agree with Murriflower's opinion

Why doesn't that surprise me?

 

[DeeDee249]

Specifically, Henry Lee, Tom Henry, Ronald Wright, Kerry Brega and Werner Spitz.



Why doesn't that surprise me?

I thought Cyril Wecht, too. Actually, Coroner Mayer would have thought they occurred close together, too, which is why he likely put them in association as causes of death.

 

[MurriFlower]

Yes, the estimate is 20-60 minutes.

I don't know, MurriFlower. The docs were pretty sure.

So you are saying they didn't think the two were simultaneous? Was there a reason for this? Didn't they think it odd that there was virtually no external sign of the skull fracture? No bruising, no swelling, no bleeding?? I know you believe it was due to 'shock', but I'm thinking there would be no less shock in any other major head injury, (fall, car accident, etc ) but it would be very unusual for there not be any obvious external signs.

Can you post source of 'the docs were pretty sure'? Is there a report on this?

 

[BBB167893]

So you are saying they didn't think the two were simultaneous?

That's right.

Was there a reason for this?

Yes, there was. Just about all noted the extensive intra-cranial bleeding and brain swelling. Henry Lee described the head wound as "fully-developed" and Tom Henry said, "basically a blood clot in her brain."

Didn't they think it odd that there was virtually no external sign of the skull fracture? No bruising, no swelling, no bleeding??

Apparently not.

I know you believe it was due to 'shock', but I'm thinking there would be no less shock in any other major head injury, (fall, car accident, etc ) but it would be very unusual for there not be any obvious external signs.

Unfortunately, MurriFlower, head wounds are the quirkiest injuries there are. From what I can gather, it's not that unusual. And as for shock, not all head wounds are alike. This one was concentrated, whereas a fall or car accident may or may not distribute force over a larger area. Think about the massive shockwave this injury would have sent across the brain.

Can you post source of 'the docs were pretty sure'? Is there a report on this?

Here you go: Henry Lee's comments on the head wound can be found in his book "Cracking More Cases."

Tom Henry made his statement on May 23, 2001 to FOXNews:

Carol McKinley: Boulder police believe this fracture on JonBenet's skull was caused by an accident and the strangulation came second to fool them into believing an intruder's elaborate plot. Autopsy consultant Tom Henry said JonBenet may have even survived unconscious for 15 min before she was strangled.

Tom Henry: The fact that she's got this extensive of described of a blood, essentially blood clot in the scalp, to me indicates a little longer period of time that she had to survive a little more blood pumping under pressure for a longer period of time.

Kerry Brega made her statements in the Daily Camera newspaper:

Kerry Brega, chief neurologist at Denver Health Medical Center, said it is not uncommon for people with skull fractures to not have any bleeding.
"We see a lot of people with skull fractures without bleeds in the brain, and they didn't all get strangled on the way in," she said

Ronald Wright and Robert Kirschner commented in the Rocky Mountain News:

"She was whopped on the head a long time before she was strangled,'' said Wright. "That might or might not have rendered her unconscious. But this is not anything that kills her right away.''
He said 20 to 60 minutes elapsed between the skull fracture and the strangulation.
The reason he's so sure, said Wright, is that details revealed about the brain injury, "the swelling, the bleeding here and there, they take a while to happen.''
And that wouldn't have happened, he said, if she was already dead.

"I think, probably, the head injury came first, because the strangulation resulted in petechial (pinpoint) hemorrhages'' in areas such as the eyelids, Kirschner said.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

So you are saying they didn't think the two were simultaneous? Was there a reason for this? Didn't they think it odd that there was virtually no external sign of the skull fracture? No bruising, no swelling, no bleeding?? I know you believe it was due to 'shock', but I'm thinking there would be no less shock in any other major head injury, (fall, car accident, etc ) but it would be very unusual for there not be any obvious external signs.

Can you post source of 'the docs were pretty sure'? Is there a report on this?

If someone is struck in the head, they are going to have a lot of swelling right then, unless there's no circulation. For this reason I agree with you that the headbash was nearly simultaneous with the strangulation.

My advise would be to read the autopsy report itself. The so-called 'docs' to which SD refers didn't actually attend JBR in life or death. Some were tabloid hires, tabs looking for a scoop.

 

[BBB167893]

If someone is struck in the head, they are going to have a lot of swelling right then, unless there's no circulation.

Tell it to the doctors.

My advise would be to read the autopsy report itself.

Damn good advice!

The so-called 'docs' to which SD refers didn't actually attend JBR in life or death.

I would think they know how to interpret autopsy findings, HOTYH. And there was and is nothing "so-called" about them.

Some were tabloid hires, tabs looking for a scoop.

That's wrong. NONE of the doctors I listed were tabloid hires. That's your answer for everything, isn't it?

 

[WHITEFANG]

Specifically, Henry Lee, Tom Henry, Ronald Wright, Kerry Brega and Werner Spitz.



Why doesn't that surprise me?

Why doesn't that surprise me that that doesn't surprise you?

 

[WHITEFANG]

If someone is struck in the head, they are going to have a lot of swelling right then, unless there's no circulation. For this reason I agree with you that the headbash was nearly simultaneous with the strangulation.

My advise would be to read the autopsy report itself. The so-called 'docs' to which SD refers didn't actually attend JBR in life or death. Some were tabloid hires, tabs looking for a scoop.

Super, have you had a chance to look for my statement regarding "no bruising?"

Bruising occurs immediately. That has been and is my belief. The moment blood vessels rupture they leak. The leaking forms the bruises we see from the blood discoloration.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Well, the layman might think so, but forensic specialists that have analyzed this report feel it was because she didn't live long enough for the swelling to become more severs. Actually, had she lived longer, her whole head and face would have been visibly swollen too, and that was not reported.

Maybe she died from strangulation and then they bashed her head in.

 

[OneLove]

If someone is struck in the head, they are going to have a lot of swelling right then, unless there's no circulation. For this reason I agree with you that the headbash was nearly simultaneous with the strangulation.

My advise would be to read the autopsy report itself. The so-called 'docs' to which SD refers didn't actually attend JBR in life or death. Some were tabloid hires, tabs looking for a scoop.

Ahem, this is something I really can address! A nurse witnessed my horrific car wreck, saw the devastating head injury up close (serious skull fracture from enormous force of impact and loss of soft tissue to the bare bone), checked for vital signs, and finding NONE, called for an ambulance for a DOA. Hospital ER prepared for a DOA. When I arrived in the ER yucking it up with paramedics, many physicians on the premises came to the ER to see the wound and the "talking dead woman". They told me they had NEVER seen anyone hit so hard in the head and suffer so serious a head wound and live. Not only did I live, I did NOT have significant swelling. They monitored extensively, waiting for "delayed" swelling. Nope, nada. An anomoly, yes. What I DID have was significant neurological impairment; took me about a year to remember who and what I was most of the time, and took about 18 months to learn to read again.

So you have to be careful with those kind of "leading" statements. :|)

 

[DeeDee249]

Maybe she died from strangulation and then they bashed her head in.

But the coroner should have noted that, too. There was no external swelling but there WAS swelling, mild flattening and narrowing in the sulci and gyri. She she was alive when that happened, too. That is what is so puzzling. She was alive for BOTH the strangulation and head bash.
And there are only a few theories where that could have been the case:

Sexual assault prompting the scream, head bash to silence her, staging the strangulation before she died. Head bash comes first.

Sexual asphyxiation as part of a sex game, frightened scream before it happened, head bash follows scream. Strangulation continues after she is unconscious (but not dead).

Scream comes from painful internal cleansing in an angry rage, she is slammed into something which caused the fracture. strangulation is staging.

Any others out there? Keep in mind these are not exclusively RDI or IDI. Just theories trying to explain how both occurred when she was alive.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ahem, this is something I really can address! A nurse witnessed my horrific car wreck, saw the devastating head injury up close (serious skull fracture from enormous force of impact and loss of soft tissue to the bare bone), checked for vital signs, and finding NONE, called for an ambulance for a DOA. Hospital ER prepared for a DOA. When I arrived in the ER yucking it up with paramedics, many physicians on the premises came to the ER to see the wound and the "talking dead woman". They told me they had NEVER seen anyone hit so hard in the head and suffer so serious a head wound and live. Not only did I live, I did NOT have significant swelling. They monitored extensively, waiting for "delayed" swelling. Nope, nada. An anomoly, yes. What I DID have was significant neurological impairment; took me about a year to remember who and what I was most of the time, and took about 18 months to learn to read again.

So you have to be careful with those kind of "leading" statements. :|)

That must have been horrible. So sorry you went through that.

 

[BBB167893]

Why doesn't that surprise me that that doesn't surprise you?

'cause I'm dependable!