If someone gave Casey a dead Caylee

[InspectorGadget]

Everyone is assuming that Caylee was killed on the night of the 15th, or the 16th (Depending on whether you believe George saw them or not). If Casey was handed a dead Caylee.......say on the 17th, and it was by her lover AL.....and he told her that she was killed because of some sort of illegal activity that AL was involved in, Casey could in no way explain this to her parents, nor inform authorities, per AL instructions. This would explain why she wanted to talk to AL soooooooo Bad when she was first arrested. She may not know who specifically killed Caylee, because AL may not be willing to tell her, because it will put her and her family in danger. This is yet another scenario that the defense could use, putting AL under the bus for abuse of a corpse or whatever else they can dream up. This is a far fetched scenario that is not at all what I think happened, but, in someone's wildest imaginations it could be possible.

I think Tony's texts to Casey and his co-operation with OCSO rule him out as a suspect. But I don't think we have seen any proof that Caylee died on 16th June. Because she wasn't reported missing, Caylee could have been anywhere between June & August. They body was skeletonized so there is no way to determine time of death.

 

[cloud]

Interesting idea. However, I don't think they have a defense. Not even close to one. I just think they're going to try to get her LWOP and that's their focus.

FWIW, I agree. I think the defense is in mitigating mode.

JMHO

 

[cloud]

I think Tony's texts to Casey and his co-operation with OCSO rule him out as a suspect. But I don't think we have seen any proof that Caylee died on 16th June. Because she wasn't reported missing, Caylee could have been anywhere between June & August. They body was skeletonized so there is no way to determine time of death.

With respect, that's wrong. Forensics determined the time of death, with a very small margin either way. Certainly not weeks, not even days, as far as I know. You can always prove them wrong, if you have the training, experience or wherewithal to engage your own team of forensic scientists.

Meantime, I'll rely on the specialists' opinions.

JMHO

 

[cloud]

I didn't intend to make any other implication, it is not obvious to me. I am not asking anybody to believe my theory, I am just putting it out there as a possibility.

Of course. That's what we all do here, after all . I just don't think it's a possibility, at all. The defense might clutch at straws because they have to, but I don't see a reason for someone else to do it.

On the other hand, if you really believe Casey is innocent, any argument is better than none.

JMHO

 

[InspectorGadget]

With respect, that's wrong. Forensics determined the time of death, with a very small margin either way. Certainly not weeks, not even days, as far as I know. You can always prove them wrong, if you have the training, experience or wherewithal to engage your own team of forensic scientists.

Meantime, I'll rely on the specialists' opinions.

JMHO

I must have missed something in the documents, not difficult to do! I thought it was the root growth that was put forward as evidence here, and that 4-6 months window of time for the root growth?

 

[cloud]

I must have missed something in the documents, not difficult to do! I thought it was the root growth that was put forward as evidence here, and that 4-6 months window of time for the root growth?

I'm not familiar with that document, so I can't comment.

What I am familiar with is the forensic reports and the coroner's findings, and - ultimately - the state of Caylee's little body when it was discovered.

The coroner estimated the time of death at around the time she "disappeared", supported by forensic evidence and environmental factors. If you choose to argue with the findings, that's your prerogative.

I wouldn't. I'm a microbiologist and could tell you that when an expert gives a qualified and informed assessment, I tend to listen to it.

JMHO

 

[InspectorGadget]

After reading your reply I guess I did underplay what someone's reaction would be, but when I was typing up my post I was kind of thinking of George's reaction at the tow yard and then still driving the car home. Yes, I would be absolutely horrified while at the same time unable to figure out how someone was able to get her body in that trunk. I wouldn't be worried so much about myself being implicated but wanting to know how something so horrendous had happened and who did it. MOO

Hi Panthera

Well, that was exactly what I was trying to say! Horrified initially, then it would take some time to calm down & think "I am going to find out whoever did this". I will go straight to the police. But wait a minute....if I go to the police I will implicate myself because the body is in my car and that is probably what the killer intends. Then I will never find out who did it. My life is ruined, I have nothing to lose, I will do whatever it takes....

The police did think she did it and they didn't have a body.

 

[InspectorGadget]

I just wanted you to know, it being Sunday and all, I totally am able to clear my mind and just feel like at least TRYING to understand a different scenario....

1) IMO, duct tape DOES NOT scream "sex offender"....stuffing a sock in someones mouth or tying a piece of material, etc would/has worked on many a person...but in the spirit of accepting the "duct tape" theory....what are the odds of the offender having the EXACT same "RARE" tape as found to be used by the A's....piece on gas can, rolls given to helpers to attach posters....the same RARE tape which a TV video had a picture of as helpers were in fact putting up posters with...would the offender just come "unprepared" and rifle through the A's drawers to find some?? IMO, a sexual predator would have been much more "prepared", so to speak, maybe have their own little "tool kit".

Well I'm suggesting the tape could be found in the garage, he wouldn't want to bring his own because it could implicate him later.

2) IMO, the MOST important fact....the A's have 2 dogs....they were, according to the A's, Caylee's dogs. Now....I have 2 Yorkies...as you can see. They ARE "yappers"....I don't care HOW well behaved. Dogs are dogs....they can't help but bark....especially at a stranger. AND, they are pretty "possessive", so to speak. My Winston is an angel...he'll let me do ANYTHING to him....goofy garland around his neck and all...LOL
BUT....if ANYONE comes into the house, he'll bark like nobody's business until I tell him it's OK....even if my sister talks to me in a mean voice, he'll get PO'd at her....LOL

Not sure where the Anthony's keep the dogs at night, or whether their barking would wake them up at 4.00-5.00 in the morning. You may have ruined my theory here! If they were in the back room, the intruder might just have been able to slip through the house into the garage.

3) The A's seem pretty diligent, IMO, about their security...hmm, GA's LE/security guard jobs sort of attest to that. There were no signs of a "break in"....cut screen, jimmied door, etc.

Possibly a window left open? They did keep the keys to the sheds in the garage. Maybe they kept spare car keys in there too. Maybe hypothetical sex offender is adept at housebreaking.

4) As you know....the majority of us went thru threads and threads of possibilities....a great deal of posters truly believed she was innocent. NO ONE wanted to believe a mother could do a horrific thing such as this.....even the fact of waiting the "31 days"....AND, KC even swore out an affidavit a few months back that SHE, in fact, DID NOT call authorities to report this.

Truthfully I would rather believe that Casey did it than a sex offender did it. But we need to be sure Casey did do it, otherwise another sex offender remains on the loose. ETA Well, this one that I am talking about isn't actually on the loose any more, but IMO he or some other offender could be responsible.

5) IMO, LE MUST have thought out EVERY possibility...as crazy as it seemed, even checking sex offenders in and around the area....they DID NOT want to be accused of a "rush to judgement".

I haven't seen any checking of sex offenders in the documents so far.

6) Yet another point....IF anything such as this happened....the defense would have DEFINITELY gone here FIRST....no doubt in my mind....NONE. Yet, the defense stuck with Zanny...moved on to Ricardo....Amy (even researching and emailing betw CA and DC such personal derogatory info about her dug up by DC)....stuck on the Grund's for quite a while....I'm sure others in between....NOW, we got them trying to ruin yet ANOTHER person's life who had the misfortune of getting involved with this circus. EVEN KC didn't say ANYTHING after RK's pic was plastered across national media and newspapers to the effect of "OMG, thats the man I saw lurking around the house...I always saw him reading our meter...

I think the defense usually formulates a strategy & most likely would play their best cards last, I will have to wait and see.

In my theory, nobody, not even Casey, realises that there was a sex offender.

I am not aware that the defense has said anything about Ricardo or Amy. The texts from Amy I am quite sure came from the prosecution and were released in the discovery.

I did not mean in any way to imply that Kronk had anything whatsoever to do with Caylee's death. I am comparing the case of a sex offender who was charged in May 2009 for entering a house in 2007, taking a little girl from her bed with the bedding, placing her on the floor in the garage, going back to the bedroom to pick out a pair of shorts and dressing her in them, then gagging her, in the garage. The parents woke up when the child got the gag off but were unable to catch him. This offender lived very close to Hopespring, just a couple of streets away.

7) IMO...since Mort is STILL visiting KC in jail...I can almost guarantee they are trying to find a new scape goat to use as "evidence" by their deadline at the end of the month.

It is the defense's job to put forward other possibilies that fit the known facts. I am sorry for the innocent people who are having to go through this. Maybe Casey is a scapegoat. She would make a pretty good one given her propensity for lying and stealing.

8) I CAN'T go thru all the mountains of evidence released that will be used at trial to "connect the dots", so to speak, in a "logical" manner for the jury.
I think we forget...yet it has been said in post after post here on WS....the jury MUST come to a decision based upon FACTS as presented at trial.
Our legal folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but the jury isn't supposed to creat new scenarios, IMO.

Nobody in this case has a lot of facts other than the a) cell phone records, b) that everyboy says that Casey was a good mother, c) that she stole from her family, friends and stores, and d) that she often lied. So it will come down to which witnesses the jury find most credible. It's going to be interesting.

9) If I'm correct....this above mentioned sex predator had a different "modus operandi", so to speak.

The similarity struck me when I read about it - Bedclothes, shorts, gag...offender lives close to Hopespring. Where are Caylee's shoes?

10) Gettin tired ovah here....LOL
This is as far as I'll go...is anyone STILL reading...LOL

I am for sure, but you're wearing me out too! LOL

KC didn't back into the garage...except on the 17th or 18th as reported by the neighbor, BB. Chances are...since she was in and out of the house so much, her car was probably "last in line" or on the street.....IF the whole scenario of Caylee dying at the hands of said sex offender...she would most likely been put into one of the other vehicles in the garage. Also....most trunks need a key to open....didn't the tow yard need to unlock the trunk, IIRC....how could the predator get the body in HER trunk without the key to unlock the trunk.....

Maybe not. She would not bother to back in if she had Caylee in the car and wasn't collecting anything. She could have driven straight into the space because George had his car at work. She's lazy & selfish, I wouldn't put it past her to pinch her dad's space so she didn't have to carry her things so far. Casey was pretty slack. She may have taken her stuff out of the trunk & left it open because she was carrying something. No need to worry about it because someone else would see the garage was locked that night.

I COULD keep going....but, I'm done for now....***and the thread draws a collective sigh of relief***

I wonder if anybody got to the end of this post?

 

[InspectorGadget]

bbm~

lol, taking a *sicky* from what?...doing nothing? Seriously though Inspector Gadget, for this theory to even begin to work you would have to believe Cindy has repeatedly lied about hearing KC and Caylee breathing through the door and George as well with his detailed description of how the morning went and what they were wearing. Do you believe them to be lying if I may ask? and if so..for what purpose? To cover for KC or as some have suggested in the past that actually one or the other of them were actually the last person to see Caylee alive. Personally I don't believe they had anything whatsoever to do with Caylee's murder (cover up after the fact, by way of obstruction or omission etc...well, that's a whole 'nother story for another thread. :steamed: Anyway, I'm just curious as to how you would reconcile that..TIA!

Taking a sicky from Gentiva where she had a full time job as a nurse/manager. I don't think they lied, I am just not sure they remember correctly and they definitely had their dates confused initially.

btw~although as I said I don't believe they had anything to do with Caylee's murder myself, many people believe that JB and KC will throw them under the bus before all is said and done..we'll see.

Nobody is going to go under any bus unless there is some evidence to charge them. The defense will try to prove that someone else could have done it.

[I believe that was KC and KC alone..who knew exactly what she was doing, no lala land, no mental illness that blocked out only her memory of what happened to Caylee and nothing else, no mafia or drug lords, no meter reader, no acquaintance/stranger while KC wasn't supervising her properly... IMHO she also knew that Cindy would catch up with her at some point although it appears KC lived her life 10 minutes at a time. As most of us here know now, (although I speak only for myself) that Cindy (as she always had) would eventually buy ANY story that she was fed as long as KC had just a little time with her. THANK GOD Cindy was already on the phone calling 911 before KC asked her for 1 more day or I firmly believe we wouldn't be talking about this today.

You may be right but Casey is innocent until proven guilty, freedom of the press & freedom of speech do not alter that.

 

[InspectorGadget]

Where was this "sexual predator" at? To know KC was texting and not just fallen asleep with the lights on...or even IF that's what she was doing....maybe the lights were off to begin with?? Perhaps he was hiding in her closet picking out a nice pair of flip flops to put besides Caylees body in the garage??

On WHICH day is this sexual predator supposed to have done this dastardly deed??
This way, we can work our way thru this particular theory....as a jury would, given the same info we have from the documents, as they will be presented at trial.
A good exercise to test different theories, as you say are possible.

He could have done it on the night of 15th June or early morning 16th. He could have watched Casey & Caylee over a couple of weeks. Could have seen them at the local Publix where he bought his beer. Could have followed her home, watching from through the window. He could have waited for everybody to go to sleep like he did in 2007. Nearly got caught then. Might have decided to give it another try and make sure child doesn't get gag off this time.

 

[InspectorGadget]

Are you serious!? Do you really believe any person who happened to find their dead child in the trunk of their car (I can't even believe that I just typed that) AND had nothing to do with the child being there would stop and say ..hmmm..this looks bad and might incriminate me...what should I do?! Let me just drive around awhile with my dead BABY in my trunk and do some investigating myself...AND you believe that is what any "intelligent person" would do? I have NO idea whether or not you have children and I'm not asking...but to say that I am stunned would be an understatement... No offense, really, we are all entitled to our opinions, but if that is the definition of intelligent, then I will be happy as a clam being the village idiot...:beamup:

What we think we would do & think of in any given situation is one thing. What we actually would do we cannot tell until we are in the situation ourselves and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Maybe Casey was too distraught to think about any action & asked someone for advice. They might have told her that she could implicate herself if she went to the police.

 

[InspectorGadget]

no way.... IF she knew that someone took caylee and killed her, she would've thrown them under the bus the second the cuffs were slapped on her. casey wouldnt cover for anyone and will do whatever it takes to get out of the murder charges... even blame innocent ppl like kronk

Maybe, but if she didn't know who it was she couldn't have "thrown them under the bus".

 

[cloud]

No matter which way anyone spins it, there are facts that cannot be dismissed.

1. significant traces of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car

2. searches for chloroform on Casey's PC

3. hair bearing the "death band" (a decomposition artifact) identified as belonging to Caylee, also in the trunk of Casey's car

4. Caylee missing for at least 30 days before her mother was forced to report her missing (otherwise, she might still be "looking" for her in various bars and shopping centres) - sorry - couldn't resist that one

5. Caylee's body found very near the home (as Casey said: "she's close"...) in a place where she and others used to bury their pets when they were school kids

6. the many versions about "the nanny" - who would leave their child without making sure that "the nanny" actually had a place, an appartment, where her daughter would be safe?? This "nanny"'s appartement had been vacant for months.

7. the inventions about "the nanny" taking Caylee to the beach, to theme parks, on vacation... all on the smell of an oily rag, because she wasn't earning anything - she was stealing from her grandmother and her closest friend to buy clothes (for herself) and groceries to make dinner for TL.

8. her obssession with skulls and bows... well, what do you know? It turned out that Caylee had tape around her mandibula, decorated with a nice heart sticker...

9. her insistance to adopt Caylee out, crushed by a mother who thought she would teach her a lesson by making her take care of child she wasn't ready for. She had to take care of that child if it killed her (my words). Well, it killed the child, instead.

10. going back to the shovel... if Casey was so determined to keep the bamboo shoots under control (even though she wasn't living there anymore) to the point that she borrowed a shovel from a neighbour, how come she didn't "break into" her parent's garage to get a shovel? After all, she had no compunction breaking into it to get gas cans...

When it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck..... it usually a pretty fair assumption that it is a duck.

JMHO

 

[InspectorGadget]

I tried to go with Casey waking up and no Caylee, and she couldn't get ahold of Cindy but assumed she had Caylee...okay, then it starts to fall apart because there does seem to be a dead little girl in the car at some point that Casey became aware of. Didn't she wonder who had Caylee the next day, or the next? Now, please, explain why she decided to bag her daughter she loved so much and dump her like trash to cover up her own innocense?

Or are they going to now say somehow RK did it all, yeppers it was RK. He held on to the body and moved it around for months, despite how busy he was calling to report what he'd already found in the woods...bizarre stuff. Or the dingo took my baby. Casey's reactions are going to be studied by the jury, and the jury will not be able to grasp how a mother could react that way, no matter who or what. You can bet if someone else did that to my child they'll be thinking.... and decide an innocent mother would just not react that way. Normally, there aren't 31 days of reaction to study, but here we have the long, long 31 days. I know reactions aren't proof of anything, but I do believe the jury needs to rely on some form of normal reasoning when looking at people's behavior.

Looking forward to the trial though.

Hi Curious Me

After the 15th, Casey let all Cindy's calls go to voicemail. She obviously didn't want to talk to her mother. Maybe she was pissed off because she thought Cindy had taken Caylee. Maybe she went to her trunk days later & found a dead Caylee. She seems to keep Caylee's stuff in the trunk and her own pants, shoes etc in the back seat so it might have been quite a while before she found out. What a pity we don't have Casey's outgoing texts... or maybe they do.

 

[InspectorGadget]

I can't see this happening for several reasons, most obviously both the A's were home and Casey was up all night texting with her boyfriend, so I highly doubt any stranger SO was inside the house. Also, Casey's car was most likely outside the garage and where would the perp get the keys to the trunk? :waitasec:

Both parents were home when this offender took the child out of her bed, and I believe a couple of siblings too. Don't know if they had any dogs. He took a very great risk of being caught.

A couple in the next street to me recently caught an offender inside their home with a knife and a stocking on their head, interfering with a six year old boy.

I think the car could have been inside the garage because George was at work on the night of June 15th and his car wouldn't have been in there. Casey could driven in and left the car open. No need to lock it if it is in the garage.

 

[InspectorGadget]

Let me be a little more clear-if the scenario was the mysterious "they" presenting a dead Caylee to Casey...I think Casey would have run to LE in a minute with the child and explained to LE that "they" murdered her child.

Casey knew quite a few police cadets, used to visit them at the rifle range. Do you think the police would have believed her?

 

[cloud]

Hi Curious Me

After the 15th, Casey let all Cindy's calls go to voicemail. She obviously didn't want to talk to her mother. Maybe she was pissed off because she thought Cindy had taken Caylee. Maybe she went to her trunk days later & found a dead Caylee. She seems to keep Caylee's stuff in the trunk and her own pants, shoes etc in the back seat so it might have been quite a while before she found out. What a pity we don't have Casey's outgoing texts... or maybe they do.

O M G !!!!!

How often do you check your trunk for the body or your child, when you finally notice she's not around anymore?? Is this what the defense is going with??!!?? Surely not. It's way beyond daft.

JMHO

 

[InspectorGadget]

I'll add the risk of getting pulled over for a traffic stop and LE finding the dead body in the trunk. No one who wasn't involved in the death would knowingly be driving around with the body there. They'd immediately call LE and not even touch the car for fear of compromising evidence and implicating themselves. MOO

I am proposing that she could have driven around without knowing it until some later time when she opened her trunk. Casey had already touched the car more than anybody else. It's quite possible if Casey found the body in her trunk that she did dispose of the body but if that were the case, it seems unlikely that she would put it where it was found. And even if she did it does not necessarily follow that she killed her.

 

[cloud]

Casey knew quite a few police cadets, used to visit them at the rifle range. Do you think the police would have believed her?

If you were a mother presented with your dead child, would you CARE what the police might or might not think?????

Get a grip.

JMHO

 

[cloud]

I am proposing that she could have driven around without knowing it until some later time when she opened her trunk. Casey had already touched the car more than anybody else. It's quite possible if Casey found the body in her trunk that she did dispose of the body but if that were the case, it seems unlikely that she would put it where it was found. And even if she did it does not necessarily follow that she killed her.

I am proposing that if you're driving around with the body of your one and only child in the trunk, not knowing where she is, or maybe not caring, you wouldn't put the odour down to skunks, without checking it out first.

And if she did, she would have found the body of her own daughter, assuming she didn't know it was there in the first place, which is as likely as me getting a cup of tea made by aliens in case they just happen to drop by.

JMHO