IL IL - Debbie Fijan, 10, DuPage County, 11 Feb 1966 - #2

[Cubby]

Relink of the last article regarding Debbies case where her brother was interviewed.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-301205/Hoping-justice-comes-for-sweet.html

My heart breaks... the memories Jack had to live with as a child...

I would trade a million and one Cubs world series to see Debbies case solved and one more.... I know I can not negotiate those things, but I am not going away from Debbies case, now or anytime before the Cubs win more world series than the Yankees.

I think about Debbie, wonder what she liked, what kind of dolls she liked, did she have a Mrs. Beasley Doll? I'm sure she was too old for a Mrs. Beasley doll. What kind of music did she like? What where her favorite songs? As a huge Dick Biondi fan myself, I know Debbie and I would have loved the same music. My favorites are mostly early to mid 60's, some 50's. ( and I am a decade younger than Debbie) Did Debbie like Elvis? Dion and the Belmonts? Leslie Gore?

I wish someone would set up a facebook, or heck, even utilize the WS photo album feature here to set up a page or make a photo album for Debbie. Janice Pocketts sister set up a beautiful facebook.... I would just love to see one just like it for Debbie.

I wish I had the chance to meet and get to know Debbie. I would like to learn more about her.

Cubby

 

[LisaWilliams]

Cubby,
In response to your queestion about homes near Benjamin School in the 60's. The building that is part of Benjamin now that looks like a house was, in fact, a home in the 60's. The school district purchased it sometime later because it needed more room. I do not know who was living there but seems to me that it may have been an older couple as I don't recall any kids at Benjamin that lived there. Old Wayne Rd was not there and there were no houses on the East side of Fair Oaks for quite some distance heading north. It was all woods on that side of the road.

 

[rpipergirl]

I just made a FB group for Debbie. Please join. We need some pics for the album also. TY for the idea,Cubby. Just tell who you are when you join and I'll make you an officer. You deserve it,Cubby. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=116359745043117

ETA: I just invited a bunch of WS'ers in my friends list.

 

[Cubby]

Cubby,
In response to your queestion about homes near Benjamin School in the 60's. The building that is part of Benjamin now that looks like a house was, in fact, a home in the 60's. The school district purchased it sometime later because it needed more room. I do not know who was living there but seems to me that it may have been an older couple as I don't recall any kids at Benjamin that lived there. Old Wayne Rd was not there and there were no houses on the East side of Fair Oaks for quite some distance heading north. It was all woods on that side of the road.

Thank you Lisa. I thought the homes at old Wayne looked like they may have been built in the 70's. wasn't sure. I didn't realize the homes on the east side of Fair Oaks closer to St. Charles were built later too. Hard to tell sometimes when they are not built in subdivisions.


Glad to see you joined Debbies facebook group. I am hoping we can get some pictures of her posted. She deserves more than just what appears to be the one newspaper photo. I pray for justice for Debbie daily.

 

[rpipergirl]

TY both for joining. I hope everyone likes it. I did it from my heart. Maybe Jack will join too.

 

[shadowangel]

The game Debbie was score-keeping for has been reported as an intramural game, which I've always taken to mean as being kids from the same school playing against each other (as opposed to kids from another school). That's just my understanding of the term "intramural".
As the game was after normal hours, I wonder if parents and friends were allowed to watch the game? If so, were the parents in attendance ever interviewed?

I'm just curious as to whether someone 'out of place' may have been spotted at the game or hanging around the school grounds at the time.

 

[Cubby]

Those are some good questions Shadow. Hopefully LisaW' will remember more about the game that afternoon.

I'm wondering if Debbies brother has had a chance to speak with LE since his first conversation with them regarding re-opening the case. Hopefully we will hear some news in that area soon.

I've had a busy week and was unable to send out any emails to media this week, so will make sure I get to that next week.

 

[shadowangel]

Very good point...LisaW said she was there that afternoon, I wonder if she recalls anyone who may have, at the time, given her a creepy feeling---Someone she didn't recognize.

 

[Abbey5]

I recently went back and started to re-read articles. The first one was from the Chicago Herald (2/17/66). Capt Mertes and Sgt Rowe came to the conclusion that LS had gone back to the school two hours before she was found. So, LS left school at around 5:30 p.m. or before and either went to his parents house or home. He was notified Debbie was missing by phone call at 6:30-6:45 p.m. LS helped with the search and according to LE went back to the school two hours before Debbie was found to destroy pictures of naked women in the school incinerator because he didn't want to be involved in an investigation. Dectectives had gone back to the school and found the charred remains of the pictures.

A witness stated he had seen a girl he believed to be Debbie talking with a man in a white car matching the description of LS's car.

LS was asked to bring in the clothes that he had wore on Friday and LE said they knew that his wife had switched the clothes.

Dectectives did a house to house survey of the neighborhood and interviewed hundreds of people.

The school that Debbie attended was described as a "country school".

No switch board operator was on duty Saturday or Sunday.

At the time eight people were awaiting murder trials in Dupage County. There was no increase in staff and deputies were expecting to endure long days and sleepless nights.

I am assuming that LE came to the conclusion that LS went back to the school two hours before Debbie was found was because the pictures were not totally burned? They could have had a witnesss that we do not know about.

As far as the clothes...LS probably wore one pair to teach in, one pair to coach and then changed when he got home. How LE knew or suspected that his wife switched the clothes? She could have turned in a pair that no one saw him in that day.

This whole page in this paper was all about Debbie's murder. It stressed how hard LE had worked twenty fours hours a day.

 

[Cubby]

First, LE most likely had a description of the clothing LS was wearing based on witness interviews. When his wife turned in the wrong clothing it most likely did not match what witnesses told LE LS was wearing. If he had changed clothing, witnesses likely indicated LS changed after school to more casual clothing if he did.

If LS knew he was innocent, WHY would his wife hand over clothing other than what LS was wearing that day? It doesn't make sense, unless LS confessed to his wife what he had done and they both were going to do what they could to throw LE off track with their investigation. Of course it is pure speculation that LS confessed to his wife. I don't know if he did or did not.

Since it was days later LS and or his wife turned over clothing to LE we don't even know if she washed them between the time Debbie was murdered and the time the clothing was turned over to LE.

 

[Cubby]

A car similiar to Richard Otto Maceks, when he murdered Sally Kandel in September of 1972.



I wish we had an actual description of LS's car and the description of the white car Debbie was seen near.

I imagine in 1966 Benjamin was a pretty small school. The area is still pretty rural, certainly more rural back in 1966.

I remember in 5th grade having a good idea of which car which teacher drove. Especially as a walker and having to walk past where the teachers parked on my way home from school.


LisaW' if you could, do you recall what kind of car LS drove back then? Was it a larger car like the car above? A smaller car? Do you happen to remember the make and model, or even the make? anything about LS's car that you may remember could be helpful.

LS still lived in the area after Debbies murder. Did anyone happen to notice him driving around town and noticed if he had new tires on his car or not?

LE should have known when they impounded the car to check for fibers if the tires were new or recently changed. It would have also made sense that LE took casts of LS's car tires when they had the car impounded. At least I would hope so. It makes me wonder.... they had fibers from LS's car, which did not match Debbies boots. Why would they have not presented evidence of casts of tire marks taken from LS's car compared to the tire casts they found near where Debbies body was found along with where they believe Debbie entered a car on St. Charles road a few hundred feet from the school? Wouldn't matching tire casts have tied LS to the murder back then? Maybe LE did take tire casts from LS's car and they were not a match. Maybe they did and that was just never printed in the media.

Did LE ever take tire casts of the car involved in Sally's murder? Does LE in any jurisdiction have tire casts from Maceks car? to compare with the tire marks found in Debbies case?

 

[rpipergirl]

I looked up intramural. Here is Wikipedia's definition. Today, "intramural" tournaments are still organized within a specific community or municipal area, between teams of equivalent age or athletic ability. I hope this helps. I think a question of WHO was there is excellent. I wonder if they video tapped games back then? HMMM
BTW: We now have 50 members in our Debbie Facebook group.

 

[Cubby]

Congrats on 50 members! IIRC, LisaW mentioned there were students from another school at the game, so the game was likely between Benjamin and another local school. I don't think video recorders of any kind existed in 1966 ( unsure ) but maybe someone took pictures of the game? Perhaps if someone had some and finds our thread they might let us know.

I'm thinking about calling the detective later this afternoon to see where things stand. He is on the afternoon shift so can't call now. If not today, I will definately do so before the end of the week.

 

[shadowangel]

I looked up intramural. Here is Wikipedia's definition. Today, "intramural" tournaments are still organized within a specific community or municipal area, between teams of equivalent age or athletic ability. I hope this helps. I think a question of WHO was there is excellent. I wonder if they video tapped games back then? HMMM
BTW: We now have 50 members in our Debbie Facebook group.

It didnt even register with me that this could have been a game between different schools, as in my experience "intramural" always meant competitions between students in the same school (grade vs grade, boys vs girls, whatever). I figured I would at least posit the question though--I'm glad I wasnt thinking too far out of the box.

If this murder had occurred more recently, I could almost consider this to be a case where an upset parent killed Debbie because she forgot to credit little Jimmy or Johnny or Janie with a point he or she scored.

 

[shadowangel]

<snipped>
Did LE ever take tire casts of the car involved in Sally's murder? Does LE in any jurisdiction have tire casts from Maceks car? to compare with the tire marks found in Debbies case?

That's a great question. I would think they had to have taken casts of tire prints (and shoe prints) at Sally's crime scene. I'm not sure, however, that they would have ever had the occasion to take casts or imprints of tires on a car Macek owned.

 

[Cubby]

That's a great question. I would think they had to have taken casts of tire prints (and shoe prints) at Sally's crime scene. I'm not sure, however, that they would have ever had the occasion to take casts or imprints of tires on a car Macek owned.

True. Macek's victims were either in motel rooms or apartments IIRC.
IIRC, Sally's murder was during good weather. If she had riden her bike to go pet the horses it is likely there was no need for tire imprints.

Which still leaves the question, did DuPage ever obtain casts or imprints of the tires on the car LS owned. That popped into my mind as one of the articles (can't recall which) stated something about 'no motive, no evidence' in Debbies case, ( and now I can't recall if that was before or after the case went to the grand jury).

 

[Cubby]

I left a message for the detective working Debbies case to ask if he had an opportunity to review Debbies case file as of yet. Haven't heard back from him. Hopefully I will this upcoming week or I will try the following week.

I would like to hold off on attempting to contact media until we at least know he has reviewed the case file. Otherwise, it is likely an media trying to contact the Sheriff's office will likely get the same reply I and most likely Jack receive about the file needing to be reviewed.

 

[rpipergirl]

"If this murder had occurred more recently, I could almost consider this to be a case where an upset parent killed Debbie because she forgot to credit little Jimmy or Johnny or Janie with a point he or she scored."

Yes, sadly I could see that happening today also.

 

[Cubby]

That's a great question. I would think they had to have taken casts of tire prints (and shoe prints) at Sally's crime scene. I'm not sure, however, that they would have ever had the occasion to take casts or imprints of tires on a car Macek owned.

Remember we don't know what evidence DuPage has. Perhaps they have shoe imprints but it was never reported in the media.

Plus the evidence collected was collected long before today's science.

Another thing..... DuPage County currently has their own crime lab, and a very good one at that. "We" have the benefit also that DuPage doesn't have to wait for the back log having to rely on the IL state crime lab.

So we shall see..........


I can't express how much I want to see this case solved and I'm encouraged it can be solved.

 

[Cubby]

Agreed...Very strange. Something kept him from attending, may have been his viewpoint on the marriage or he may have been previously...detained, for lack of a better word.

LS's wife's maiden name is Schlugen...Which in German is a past tense form of schlag, which means to hit, beat, or strike. Oh, the irony......

LS's wife was two years older than he, and taught parochial school in West Chicago and Carol Stream. I'm thinking its possible she may have taught ROM at some point.

Reviewing some old posts. I don't think we ever looked to see if LS may have graduated HS early. 16 would be awfully early, but perhaps he was attending school out of the area. On a retreat? We should dig through the HS annuals we can find online to see if we can find him listed with his graduating class.

I'm hoping the investigator noted what those things in his past life were in the file!

As far as Mrs. LS teaching ROM, IIRC he grew up in the Elmwood Park, IL area so that would be much too far east, Cook County, for her to possibly teach him at some point. though we may see if we can find any info on what years ROM lived in Elmwood Park, and what years his family moved to the NW area, McHenry County.....

food for thought.