IL IL - Debbie Fijan, 10, DuPage County, 11 Feb 1966 - #2

[rpipergirl]

I have started a new thread for Macek. I found a couple of links to start us off. Richard Otto Macek serial killer - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Cubby]

Recopying Abbey5's post # 90 from thread #1:

I ran across a few more interesting articles. This first one is from the Anderson Herald (Indiana) Feb. 20, 1966. The headline said "Woman may have had Slaying Role".

Stab wounds on the outer edges of the girl's eyes raised the speculation that a woman may have been involved. Samuel Lewis, DuPage County Coroner and his deputy James Clark said eye wounds were part of a pattern in murders by women. Clark said reported stabbings were also part of an accepted pattern in murders by women. Persons who commit such murders do not recoginize death as such and continue to strike after a person is dead.

The above sounds like ROM's MO. BBM, IIRC, almost the same terminology used by Dr. Morrison discussing Macek in her book.

pulling another of Abbey5's posts from thread #1 - post # 127

Cubby, I do not believe Bellecomo had anything directly to do with this murder. The fact that he said it was the Fijan's neighbor that showed him the murder weapon is what leaves me wondering. He did live quite a distance from the area but he could have known the neighbor through work, family members, friends, etc (such as being paid for doing this)... Or like you said earlier he could have been in trouble himself and looking for a lighter sentence, but it was not mentioned in the article that he was incarcinated at the time. It only stated that he came forward offering information. Either way, why was it that it was a neighbor of the Fijan's that showed him the supposed murder weapon? That's what bothers me. The article I read clearly stated the the LE was quite upset that they had wasted so much time following the leads for so many months. I really think this was to pull the attention off of LS but why pull attention close to the Fijan's?

The following is pure speculation, but is it possible Bellecomo knew Macek? Elmhurst is not that far from Elmwood Park. It could be far fetched, but it could also be possible. It's hard to figure out why Bellecomo would have given this misleading info to LE. Either he made it up, or could he have known Macek?

ETA: I have to go back and find the posts about babysitting for the neighbors brothers..... Is it possible either the neighbor who found Debbie or Bellecomo knew Macek- even as an acquantaince- and especially in their mid to late teens having parties? Again, it is pure speculation, but it would be interesting if we could find a connection.

 

[Cubby]

We hadn't run across any media articles regarding 14 year old Sally Kandels murder in 72 which referenced Debbies murder. I just found one.... though either the snippet from google archives in wrong or the article itself is wrong as it states Debbie was found in 1950 - at least according to the snippet.




Girl, 14, Slain in Suburb
[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver[SIZE=-1] - Sep 14, 1972[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A teacher at the school was arrested and charged with the murder but he ... a few hundred feet from where the body of Debbie Fijan was discov ered in 1950 ... [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Related web pages[/SIZE]


same article below with a slight change of search words.

Girl, 14, Slain in Suburb
[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver[SIZE=-1] - Sep 14, 1972[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Sally Kandel's body was found only a few hundred feet from where the body of Debbie Fijan was discov ered in 1950. Patrolman Edward Kopman of Carol Stream ... [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Related web pages[/SIZE]




Remember, the first person convicted of murdering Sally was not the real perp and his conviction was overturned 20 or so years later (1994 IIRC) even though DuPage had info on Macek in 76 or so. Because DuPage stood by the first wrongful conviction, it is very unlikely any serious comparison of Debbies and Sally's case were ever made. At least were Macek is concerned.

 

[Luckymanuh]

Unfortunately back then no one barely every questioned what LEA said. With Sally's murder there was such an outcry to solve this murder DPC just sent on the word of a some trying to get a better deal. If I am not mistaken it was an election year to boot. There is nothing worse for a Sherriff running for office then to leave such a media frenzy murder to be hanging in the wind.

What I find totally scary is the fact that who ever it was killed Debbie and Sally did it in broad day light. Now that is really gutzy putting it mildly. This is someone who thought he was invincible, full of himself, could not control his impulses had to kill right then and there, and a confidence level that is off the charts he would never get caught, in my opinion.

 

[Cubby]

It would have still been light out when Sally was murdered. I'm sure it was Macek who killed Sally, based on the bite mark info.... however, forensic dentistry was in it's infancy then. Some of the stuff I have read about Macek in Morrisons book Macek sounds like he really thought he could get away with it, very brazen, etc.......

Debbies murder was in February, after 5:15pm so likely dark out or almost dark out then.

 

[Cubby]

Hmmmm..... on another note. It is likely that DuPage still has evidence from Sally's case. Perhaps they could get a DNA profile on Macek from that evidence.

 

[rpipergirl]

We hadn't run across any media articles regarding 14 year old Sally Kandels murder in 72 which referenced Debbies murder. I just found one.... though either the snippet from google archives in wrong or the article itself is wrong as it states Debbie was found in 1950 - at least according to the snippet.




Girl, 14, Slain in Suburb
[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver[SIZE=-1] - Sep 14, 1972[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A teacher at the school was arrested and charged with the murder but he ... a few hundred feet from where the body of Debbie Fijan was discov ered in 1950 ... [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Related web pages[/SIZE]


same article below with a slight change of search words.

Girl, 14, Slain in Suburb
[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver[SIZE=-1] - Sep 14, 1972[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Sally Kandel's body was found only a few hundred feet from where the body of Debbie Fijan was discov ered in 1950. Patrolman Edward Kopman of Carol Stream ... [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Related web pages[/SIZE]




Remember, the first person convicted of murdering Sally was not the real perp and his conviction was overturned 20 or so years later (1994 IIRC) even though DuPage had info on Macek in 76 or so. Because DuPage stood by the first wrongful conviction, it is very unlikely any serious comparison of Debbies and Sally's case were ever made. At least were Macek is concerned.

1950!!! I've heard of having dates a little off ,but, 16 years is ridiculous. I am glad though that you found an article mentioning Debbie with Sally. I did not know they were found just feet from each other. HMMMM. That is interesting. I just wish they weren't PPV. I hate that.

 

[Cubby]

I'm glad I found it too. I think the 1950 is why we couldn't find it previously.

I don't know the exact locations where each girl was found, but the intersections mentioned in media articles are Kuhn and Lies which is a Carol Stream address and Fair Oaks and Lies which is right at the border of what is now Carol Stream and unincorporated West Chicago.

Both intersections marked at the map linked. Both were found on Lies Rd.

Also, the lake in the upper left corner of the map is the 'quarry' that Abbey5 mentioned early on in thread one. At the time it was a stone quarry, and is a lake now.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-google-dd&utm_medium=ha

 

[Cubby]

Bumping for Debbie. I'm still hoping to hear an update from Debbies brother once he has spoken with LE in DuPage again.

I left another message for the detective handling Debbies case last evening.

 

[Cubby]

Received a short email from the detective handling Debbies case to let me know things are moving forward. However due to this being an open investigation they are keeping everything confidential.

Very understandable. No reason to not keep everything close to the vest. No need to hamper the open investigation.

I am just ECSTATIC the cob webs and dust are off Debbies case file and it is actively and aggressively being pursued again.

This calls for some dancing banana's! :Banane44::Banane01: :Banane44::Banane01:

:woohoo:

Keeping those investigating this case in our prayers as well as Debbies family. Even when the thread gets slow you are still in our thoughts and prayers daily!

 

[TallCoolOne]

Received a short email from the detective handling Debbies case to let me know things are moving forward. However due to this being an open investigation they are keeping everything confidential.

Very understandable. No reason to not keep everything close to the vest. No need to hamper the open investigation.

I am just ECSTATIC the cob webs and dust are off Debbies case file and it is actively and aggressively being pursued again.

This calls for some dancing banana's! :Banane44::Banane01: :Banane44::Banane01:

:woohoo:

Keeping those investigating this case in our prayers as well as Debbies family. Even when the thread gets slow you are still in our thoughts and prayers daily!

Whoa, that's more than encouraging Cubby!

And yes, even if there is no activity on the thread, that doesn't mean we aren't keeping it close to our hearts.

I check here regularly to see if there is any news, and I'm super glad I checked today.

~TCO~ Keeping the faith, as always..........

 

[Cubby]

Thanks TCO. I can not state enough how ecstatic I am to know that the Fijan family and LE are back at it again to get this case solved. Would I sound neurotic if I said it would be better than the Cubs winning the World Series or better than winning the lotto to see an arrest and conviction in this case? Because that is how I feel, and that is how badly I want this case solved!

If I had the choice between having as much money as Bill Gates or seeing Debbies case solved, forget the money solve the case!

I'm awaiting the day I read arrest made in the news on this case!

and then once there is a conviction in this case, I will be eagerly awaiting hearing what Debbies mom has to say that she can't say now until there is a conviction.

I know that I am a mere stranger to the Fijan family, but they are in my heart just like they were my own family.

A conviction is gonna happen! It's just a matter of when.

 

[Cubby]

I was born in March of 1966.
when I think about Debbie and her case, this is for my BIG SIS Deb!

I am talking about my old friend Debbie..... I love you big sis!

Um, and I will say, I had no clue between the Wanderer and Run around Sue and the following Dion lyrics.....

Debbie is part of my heart and soul..... and I should have been born in the 30's....

I love you big sister!

My song for us...

XXOO -



Has anybody here seen my old friend Abraham?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people,
But it seems the good they die young.
You know, I just looked around and he's gone.

Anybody here seen my old friend John?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people,
But it seems the good they die young.
I just looked around and he's gone.

Anybody here seen my old friend Martin?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people,
But it seems the good they die young.
I just looked 'round and he's gone.

Didn't you love the things that they stood for?
Didn't they try to find some good for you and me?
And we'll be free
Some day soon, and it's a-gonna be one day ...

Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walk up over the hill,
With Abraham, Martin and John.

 

[Luckymanuh]

This is wonderful news!!!

 

[shadowangel]

I don't get the chance to check in much anymore, but Debbie's case is one of the three I hold nearest and dearest to me. It's good to know local law enforcement are really taking an interest in the case.

 

[Roger LaRose]

I was in 8th grade and living in Channahon when Debbie's picture was on the front page of every Chicago Newspaper. She looked just like my younger sister and our family was shocked by the circumstances of the case. A teacher was suspected and this was the event that forced me and my three sisters to grow up and see the world through different eyes. Our family discussed the details of the case for several weeks. My father always brought three or four newspapers home. That was the era of morning and afternoon editions and morning and evening papers. So the news could change from the morning to the evening papers. I have several memories about the case and they are very old but our family came to believe that it took two people to stab Debbie so many times. One to hold her and one to stab her. We also felt uneasy about the stab wounds in the face. That seemed very personal and very angry. We wanted to know a lot more about AV and his girlfriend. This is just a memory from 44 years ago but I recall that he was somehow connected to the Dupage County Law Enforcement community. Again, that is just a memory. I also have a memory that he was questioned and may have taken a polygraph. I also remember that Debbie used to call him her boyfriend. It was a time when you could kid around about stuff like that and everybody understood that it was a joke. Today we would react differently if a fifth grader called a college student her boyfriend, even in jest. Also we could never get over how AV was so lucky to find Debbie' body that night. It would make sense if his tire tracks were at the scene. In addition it was reported that Debbie may have lived for some time after she was abandoned in that frozen field. Her killer must have known that Debbie was still alive when he left her to freeze to death. AV was the first person to see the crime scene when he found her. It would make sense if his footprints were at the scene. If this crime took place today it would have been solved in a very short time with forensics. Multiple stab wounds with a very short object. Less that 3 inches? Something like a small pocket knife or a fingernail file? No molestation? No killing blow? Three white cars? Stab wounds in the face. I believe whoever killed Debbie must have known her. As you can see this has been bothering me for a long time. Every crime show I have ever watched makes me think of Debbie. When Cold Cases started to be solved I figured this one would be a slam dunk. I started checking the internet about 5 years ago and found this board when it started. Its time for someone to be asked the hard questions. I hope the Dupage Detectives are up to it. It is strange how a girl that I never knew has such a strong place in my heart. I am another voice who wants justice for Debbie. She could be any of us just waiting to go home.

 

[Cubby]

Hi Roger - Welcome to WS!


I'm glad you found us. It is perplexing this case still sits among the unsolved. Especially with todays forensics.

I noticed you mentioned you thought two perps were involved. One to hold Debbie, the other to stab her. I'd love to hear more about your theory.

I don't recall anything about Debbie calling someone her boyfriend. It does stick out in this day and age.

Looking forward to reading your theories.

:Welcome-12-june:

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Thanks TCO. I can not state enough how ecstatic I am to know that the Fijan family and LE are back at it again to get this case solved. Would I sound neurotic if I said it would be better than the Cubs winning the World Series or better than winning the lotto to see an arrest and conviction in this case? Because that is how I feel, and that is how badly I want this case solved!

If I had the choice between having as much money as Bill Gates or seeing Debbies case solved, forget the money solve the case!

I'm awaiting the day I read arrest made in the news on this case!

and then once there is a conviction in this case, I will be eagerly awaiting hearing what Debbies mom has to say that she can't say now until there is a conviction.

I know that I am a mere stranger to the Fijan family, but they are in my heart just like they were my own family.

A conviction is gonna happen! It's just a matter of when.

No you don't sound neurotic at all. This is GREAT news. I so hope we see justice for Debbie soon.

Congrats Cubby on your hard work on getting the attention on this case.

 

[Roger LaRose]

Yes this is a really sad and frustrating case. Everything I remember about this was reported in the newspapers. I will have to research and see what papers were around in 1966. I do remember that it was reported that Debbie did call AV her "boyfriend". You must remember that the journalists in 1966 wrote in a more "sensational" manner. They had a lot of competition and were fighting for pieces of the story. I have copies of the Tribune reports over the first few days. They are probably the least sensational reporters. I will try to find sources for the other papers and put together a more comprehesive sample of what the press reported. Some of the chicago area libraries have a collection of old newspapers on film strips. It also never made sense to me that if LS committed this crime why he would dispose of the body so close to his parents house. But I do agree that the in the desk is a very powerful lead. Not that he had it, but that he tried to destroy it. I have not written down a time line but could he have known that Debbie was dead at that time? Wasn't she just missing? I have not had a chance to review every post on the board but will do so over the weekend.

 

[rpipergirl]

:cake: WELCOME,Roger. You make some very interesting and astute points. I agree if it happened today it would be solved. Maybe with Cubby's encouragement LE will compare Sally's evedience with Debbie's.
:woohoo: I am so excited that they have dusted off Debbie's files. Thank you,Cubby. :woohoo: