IL IL - Debbie Fijan, 10, DuPage County, 11 Feb 1966 - #2

[Cubby]

I'm sure LE will consider all aspects of the case, including the comparison of Debbies case to Sally's.

Roger, Any media you find on Debbies case would be great. We have numerous articles linked throughout the two threads, however most of the Chicago Tribune and Daily Herald articles or all pay-to-view or PTV as we abbreviated.

In your initial post you menton some connection to DuPage County Law enforcement community. LS's father John S was the Wayne Township Highway Commissioner, an elected official, until his drowing death appx a year after Debbies murder. The specific dates are posted earlier in the threads.

There is lots and lots to read in the two threads. Please let us know if you have any questions. I think in the next week or so I am going to try and read the threads again from the beginning just as a refresher.

 

[Cubby]

Yes this is a really sad and frustrating case. Everything I remember about this was reported in the newspapers. I will have to research and see what papers were around in 1966. I do remember that it was reported that Debbie did call AV her "boyfriend". You must remember that the journalists in 1966 wrote in a more "sensational" manner. They had a lot of competition and were fighting for pieces of the story. I have copies of the Tribune reports over the first few days. They are probably the least sensational reporters. I will try to find sources for the other papers and put together a more comprehesive sample of what the press reported. Some of the chicago area libraries have a collection of old newspapers on film strips. It also never made sense to me that if LS committed this crime why he would dispose of the body so close to his parents house. But I do agree that the in the desk is a very powerful lead. Not that he had it, but that he tried to destroy it. I have not written down a time line but could he have known that Debbie was dead at that time? Wasn't she just missing? I have not had a chance to review every post on the board but will do so over the weekend.

Lots of bodies are dumped close to the perps area of comfort. If LS commited this crime, his time was limited and he would need to get rid of the body in a hurry. The area was so rural, I don't know exactly on Lies where Debbie was found, but this area would have likely not been in view of other homes aside from the farm.

I drove by the area a few weeks ago, because I am only 10-12 minutes or so from there. It is a bit of a way from the still standing brick ranch home on the west side of Fair Oaks - which is currently a forest preserve- and the location of the old Schofield family farm. It is also hilly enough it is likely the farm could be seen from the intersection, but someone inside the family home could not see the intersection from any window.

I really need to borrrow my sisters or my mothers digital camera and take pics of the area and upload them. I will try and do that once I can arrange to do so.

 

[Cubby]

The boyfriend thing doesn't strike me as too odd. Maybe typical school girl crush type thing. In 4th I had a neighbor across the street who was 16 and her bf was 19. I had a huge crush on him, but it was all innocent... I also think, or wonder, if the search for Debbie had started from her home the search would have headed south towards the school. Perhaps AV decided to go north since others were searching south.

I'm also sure LE would have verified what time AV arrived home that weekend and whether he was home from school by the time Debbie would have left school. That is info LE won't give us, but I am sure that was all verified if AV was cleared as a suspect.

I have to go back and review the 3 white cars. One was LS's, one was the school janitors IIRC (if I recall correctly-a commonly used abbv here) and I forget who the third belonged to, of if LE released that info to the media.

Roger, I don't know if you recall Sally Kandel's murder ( Sept 72) which happened at Kuhn and Lies, less than 2 miles from where Debbie was found on Lies, but we did find some very interesting similiarities between both Debbie and Sally's murder. That is detailed in the threads.

I'll be awaiting your thoughts once you have a chance to read the threads.

 

[Cubby]

Now I am wondering.... was it verified LS's parents were home? What if they were not, and LS brought Debbie to his parents home and the fibers found on her boots were from the inside of LS's parents home? Makes me wonder if the neighbor who stated she saw a car in the driveway saw LS's car but not either of his parents car, or his dads car. I don't recall people having more than one family car back in the mid 60's.

It was known, and proven LS's wife asked LS to lie.... or that was the impression given in the media when she admitted she initially turned over the wrong set of clothing of LS's to be tested. Given that, it is possible, she would also lie and say LS was at their home on old Gary in what was then Cloverdale,and is now Bloomingdale. Perhaps she called LS at his parents farm..... and he had Debbie at his parents home and knew people were out searching, so he had to get rid of her quickly. Just a thought.

 

[Abbey5]

AV was the third person with the white car.

 

[Cubby]

AV was the third person with the white car.

Thank you. That is what I thought but couldn't remember. Do you recall how and if he was officially cleared?

Eeeps, now I am wondering if LE ever took fiber samples from the carpet in AV's car. -OR- if the description of the car Debbie was seen near did not match AV's car.

and which neighbor reportedly told ?B (forgetting the first name) where the spoon/knife was?

So many questions. I really do need to make the time to go back and re-read the 1st thread.

 

[Abbey5]

Thank you. That is what I thought but couldn't remember. Do you recall how and if he was officially cleared?

Eeeps, now I am wondering if LE ever took fiber samples from the carpet in AV's car. -OR- if the description of the car Debbie was seen near did not match AV's car.

and which neighbor reportedly told ?B (forgetting the first name) where the spoon/knife was?

So many questions. I really do need to make the time to go back and re-read the 1st thread.

Bellecomo was the one who said a neighbor of the Fijans showed him a spoon and said that it was the murder weapon. No other information about the weapon was mentioned in the article. AV's name was never mentioned in this article. Bellecomo was 7 years older than AV.

AV was home from college that weekend and helped with the search with his girlfriend. I do remember reading an article that stated LS said Debbie's parents called to say she was missing and he went with a neighbor to help with the search. Was this a neighbor of his or a neighbor of the Fijans...AV?

The neighbor of LS's parents stated that she saw the Schofield car at the house.

It seems the Fijans must have been friends with the V's. Debbie had borrowed the mounted duck to bring to show and tell at school. The same mounted duck (along with her school books) found along side her body on the side of the road.

When LS was arrested LE released two others that they had in custody that they had been questioning. They did not name these two people. A 22 year old had already been questioned and released at this time. I think this was the janitor because the age matched but I cannot verify that. I don't ever remember reading a specific article where they questioned AV. I have been frustrated with reading these articles in the past and a few contridicted themselves.

 

[Cubby]

Thanks Abbey.

So 4 people total were questioned including LS? If I read that correctly, or was it three, LS, the janitor(unverified) and a 3rd unnamed person? It would make logical sense AV was questioned since he found Debbie. I thought Bellecomo and AV were friends despite the age difference.

I dont' recall reading LS joined the search with a neighbor of his... I thought he joined the search and the neighbors were the Fijans, not LS's neighbors who also participated.

I'd love to know:

1-Who was LS 'searching' with -or- did he search by himself? At what time did he leave the search party to go to the school. How long was he there?

I have more, but they are most likely a wish list with info LE would never give up during an open investigation or I should go back and re-read.

When School lets out and I can get grandma or grandpa to keep the little guy a full day and an overnight I will get to the library to read and take notes on some of those articles we couldn't access due to them being PPV. Hopefully I can accomodate that with the shortened summer library hours.

 

[Abbey5]

Thanks Abbey.

So 4 people total were questioned including LS? If I read that correctly, or was it three, LS, the janitor(unverified) and a 3rd unnamed person? It would make logical sense AV was questioned since he found Debbie. I thought Bellecomo and AV were friends despite the age difference.

I dont' recall reading LS joined the search with a neighbor of his... I thought he joined the search and the neighbors were the Fijans, not LS's neighbors who also participated.

I'd love to know:

1-Who was LS 'searching' with -or- did he search by himself? At what time did he leave the search party to go to the school. How long was he there?

I have more, but they are most likely a wish list with info LE would never give up during an open investigation or I should go back and re-read.

When School lets out and I can get grandma or grandpa to keep the little guy a full day and an overnight I will get to the library to read and take notes on some of those articles we couldn't access due to them being PPV. Hopefully I can accomodate that with the shortened summer library hours.

An article in the Anderson Herald dated 2/13/1966 stated that a 22 year old man who was known to drive a white car was questioned during the night and released. I am assuming this was the janitor because he was 22 years old and owned a white car and was at the school the day that Debbie went missing. In the Daily Herald (2/17/1966) it states that on Sunday afternoon LE interrogated and administered a lie detector test on an 18 year old dishwasher who told the FBI that he saw the murder. This same guy later admitted he lied because he wanted to be a hero. They stated his name and it was not ROM. So, I don't know who else they had in custody at that time besides LS. I have gone back and looked and no one else is mentioned anywhere. I'm sure they questioned AV since he did find Debbie but I don't think they held him. I could be wrong though.

I have not seen any mention that AV and Bellecomo were friends.

Edwardsville Intelligencer (2/16/1966) LS saw Debbie at 5:30 p.m. in the school playground. He told her to go home. He went home and got a call from Debbie's parents at 6:30 p.m. saying that she was missing. He began searching with a neighbor. During the search he stopped at the school and took some pictures of naked women from his desk and burned them in the incinerator. I have no idea what neighbor the article is referring to...it could have been his neighbor or the Fijans. It said "He began searching with a neighbor".

Daily Herald (2/17/1966) Capt. Mertes and Sgt. Rowe reasoned that LS went back to the school two hours before the discovery of Debbie's body being found. It did not mention how they came to this conclusion in the article but it might be by the time line that LS gave them and/or by what his wife told them.

While going back and re-reading some articles I came across one thing I don't think I mentioned before...cannot remember but anyway, in the Anderson Herald (2/20/1966) Sheriff Stanley Lynch said that authorities did not dismiss the possibility that there was more than one assailant. I really wish they would have elaborated a bit more on this but they didn't.

I have a few questions on my wish list also Cubby. I hope you get to go to the library and come back with lots of answers for us.

This case has been close to my heart since I first read about it. I truly hope that the cold case unit in Dupage County can solve this case. RPipergirl thank you for bringing this case to our attention.

 

[Roger LaRose]

I have confirmed that the Chicago American and the Chicago Daily News are available at the Harold Washington Library. I will try to make it there this week and gather as much info as I can. I talked to my sisters this weekend and they remember many of the same newspaper articles as I do so lets see what these paper have to say. One question I always had was who were the witnesses that saw the "white car" ? How many people were in the area that night around 5:30? Were they other children? Other parents? If there were adults hanging around it would have been very risky for someone that knew Debbie to get her in the car and then attack her. The chances of them getting caught would have been very high.

 

[Cubby]

TY Roger! I'm not close to the city, so your offer to go to the Harold Washington Library is much appreciated!

The only media article regarding a witness that I recall was the husband of a fellow teacher indicating he saw a girl resembling Debbie talking to a man in a white car just west of the school on St. Charles road - but east of Fair Oaks on his way to pick up his wife from the school. Times vary on this report being from 5-5:15pm depending on the article.

I'll see if I can find any other earlier media links.

hth

 

[Cubby]

Roger here are two links to individul posts from the 1st thread which might help with your timeline question.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IL, DuPage County: Debbie Fijan age 10 abducted and murdered Feb 1966



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IL, DuPage County: Debbie Fijan age 10 abducted and murdered Feb 1966


Media links indicating what time the teachers husband arrived to pick her up were conflicting. It is probably closer to 5:15-5:30 when he saw her versus 5-5:15. IIRC the 15 minute confusion was based on media links quoting the husband and media links quoting the teacher. I don't believe the teacher was named.

hth

eta: will try and find the info regarding the time LS said he last saw Debbie and what time the janitor left - as he stated he was the last one to leave and lock up.

 

[Abbey5]

I have confirmed that the Chicago American and the Chicago Daily News are available at the Harold Washington Library. I will try to make it there this week and gather as much info as I can. I talked to my sisters this weekend and they remember many of the same newspaper articles as I do so lets see what these paper have to say. One question I always had was who were the witnesses that saw the "white car" ? How many people were in the area that night around 5:30? Were they other children? Other parents? If there were adults hanging around it would have been very risky for someone that knew Debbie to get her in the car and then attack her. The chances of them getting caught would have been very high.

I agree with you, we need much more information. It would be great if you are able to make it to the Harold Washington Library. I don't know if you have had time yet to go through the first thread yet but there is lots of info. in that thread that will probably answer most of your questions. Another poster on this thread went to school with Debbie and she said she thought she was the last one to see her that day. All of her posts are on the first thread. She lived two houses away from Debbie. If you look at the bottom of one of Cubbies posts you will find a link to the first thread.

Welcome to the thread and WS and I'm really interested in what you find at the Library.

 

[Cubby]

bumping. Wondering if Roger had the opportunity to read thread 1. (which can be found in my signature line- just click on the words thread 1 in my siggy line) and if he had the opportunity to get the Harold Washington Library yet.

I need to wait to get the pics and to the library until I can get a sitter for a full day. Hoping next week.

 

[Luckymanuh]

I just got done skimming through thread #1 for Debbie. It amazes me that "common" folk like us see the connection between Macek and Debbie and Sally's cases. And believe you me there are more. BUT LE doesn't or won't!
I have been to the Harold Washington Library researching another murder. I love that library. I could spend DAYS there!! Their publication department is amazing. What is even better, at least when I went, they did not charge for copying pages of microfilm of old newspapers. I really want to get down there again. I spent 6 hours there and wasn't a fraction through the newspaper I wanted to search.

 

[Cubby]

I just got off the phone with the Coroners office in DuPage and the coroner had not ever heard about the child found in the box in April of 1966. He had no information or knowledge of that case at all, and considering it is 44 years old already, I think the child must have been id'd. Or God forbid he was simply forgotten and there is no longer any info on that case.

Per the coroners office, there are only two unidentified persons cases in DuPage as of right now. The unidentified child refered to as DuPage Johnny Doe found in October of 2005 and the skeletal remains found at Herrick lake in April of 2010.

I suppose we could look and see if there was ever any news articles indicating the infant found in the box in April of 1966 was identified but I don't know if the media put that info out back in the 60's.

 

[Cubby]

Since this unidentified child found by LS and his dad is technically a different OT topic not directly related to Debbies case, outside of the fact that the prime suspect found the child, I started a thread for this child in our Unidentified Forum to see if we can find any media articles letting us know the child was id's. We may or may not find that info, but anyone interested in sleuthing that part of this story, please do so at the thread I started for him here:

IL Infant boy April 1966, unicorported DuPage/Wayne Township - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[shadowangel]

It's just the way I interpreted it, but I had assumed that the remains (identified as "mummified" at some point, as I recall) were possibly the result of a still-birth. As barbaric as it sounds, remains of that type were often disposed of in a manner similar to this.
by the way, welcome to the discussion, Anthrograd. As you've seen from the info and articles posted... Whether he is responsible for the death of Debbie or not, LS was not what he appeared to be to the outside world. You knew LS shortly after the death of his daughter, do you have any information regarding her?

 

[Cubby]

Thank you ShadowAngel. I think you are probably right, could very well have been a still birth situation. I did a little looking and could not find any other media stories. Doenetwork has several unidentified newborn cases where an autopsy determined the child was alive at birth. Perhaps an autopsy on the child found by LS and his dad determined the child was still born and that was the end of that......

 

[Cubby]

LS's toddler daughter passed away at the appx age of 2 in 78.
I don't know if the following info is a typo or she actually passed away on her 2nd birthday. If Anthrograd met LS in 83 he may not have mentioned a child he and MAS lost about 5 years earlier. I am curious too.
http://dekalb.ilgenweb.net/Cemeteries/St_Catherine_files/St_Catherine_list.html#S

Oddly between the tragic passing of LS's father in 67 in the boating accident and then losing his daughter at such a young age, kind of unusual to have so much tragedy in his life after Debbies murder.

JMO