IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #1

[cady]

:needdrink: just reading :needdrink:

LOL Having one, myself! Yours looks like rootbeer , tho. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/cops-bash-coroner-speaking-slain-fox-lake-police-lieutenant


FTA:

"Filenko claimed the coroner may have undone all his investigators have accomplished since the lieutenant was found shot to death nine days ago.

“All of the progress made since this tragic incident is potentially in jeopardy,” said Filenko."

What progress? It seems to me LE are the ones jeopardizing this investigation by not giving Rudd what he needs to make his report. Add to that this public mud-slinging which gives one the impression that they're trying to force the ME to come to a certain conclusion, and it seems clear to me it is not Rudd anyone needs to worry about!

It almost seems like the ME is being set up to take the fall so LE won't have to solve this case.

I do think they are making progress behind the scene. They have their suspicions about someone or more than one and I think they have been aggressively pursuing a lot of information they haven't made public. Most LEOs do not openly talk about what is happening in an investigation nor the evidence they have amassed. Imo, they are making progress but they just don't want the public to know what that progress entails. I think once this is solved its going to be a huge story in that area and maybe even nationally. A lot of cases take quite awhile to accumulate the evidence needed for an arrest. Its better to get it right rather than rushing and making mistakes.

I don't think I remember a case where LE had to give the ME the trajectory of the bullet.

In fact in the cases/trials I have seen it is always the ME in a case who usually gets up to testify in front of the jury, using a human dummy, and shows them the trajectory of the fatal wound/s by using straws or wooden dowels. He/she should already know the trajectory based on the bullet wound. I am sure once entering the body it traveled in a certain direction making a path through the internal torso area. So I am puzzled why the ME needs the ballistic experts to tell him this when Joe's body showed that already. He/she should already know if it was close range, mid range. or further away.

I still do not believe it was a suicide, but if it was, it was a crazy suicide for an experience 30 year LEO to do. If he was trying to fake a murder then why would he shoot his weapon underneath his body vest? He has been a police officer and military man long enough to know the best place to commit suicide is a shot to the head. Was he shot once or twice? And wasn't his firearm 100 feet away from his body? If he shot himself in once place and then fell dead in another location a 100 feet away there would be a blood trail from the first location to the second.

Is someone wanting others to think he committed suicide?

What I believe is either someone is hoping LE believes this is a very bizarre suicide or this has to do with the internal affairs ongoing investigation. It was said the officer involved has also been removed from duty during the investigation. So was Joe a whistleblower and he is the one who went to IA? Was someone very upset that Joe had crossed that blue line and blamed him for the IA investigation? Just things I wonder about.

Is Rudd a ME or a Coroner? From what I have read a ME has a degree in forensic pathology and is a medical doctor but a Coroner can be anyone without experience. Some of them were funeral directors before being elected Coroner by the voters in a county.

There is a Coroner in the surrounding county from where I live. All people who are found to have died a suspicious death their body is examined by the GBIs medical examiners office. The coroner doesn't do autopsies. So why wasn't Joe's body sent to a medical examiner to be autopsied instead of a Coroner? I am sure the Illinois state police agency has a full ME staff. Why wasn't his body sent to Chicago and examined by a ME?

Maybe I am not quite understanding why a Coroner did it and not a forensic pathologist (ME) who is very knowledgeable in bullet wounds and trajectories. If anyone would be kind enough to answer this for me I would appreciate it very much.

IMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Is Rudd a ME or a Coroner? From what I have read a ME has a degree in forensic pathology and is a medical doctor but a Coroner can be anyone without experience. Some of them were funeral directors before being elected Coroner by the voters in a county.

[snip for focus]

THOMAS A. RUDD, M.S., M.D., FCAP, FACNP

http://www.lakecountyil.gov/coroner/Pages/default.aspx

 

[hockeymom4]

i am officially lost with all this undercover "rumor."

 

[katydid23]

I just think that a well-known local PD officer who blends so well with his community would be a perfect candidate for a military or federal agency to have as an undercover agent. Who would ever suspect? If his cover was blown, any number of people would like to see him eliminated. JMO

But what agencies? FBI? Homeland Security? And who is he trying to fool by being undercover?

When I think 'undercover' I think of officers that wear plain clothes and unmarked cars and try and blend in with drug dealers and burglary rings in order to buy stolen goods/drugs.

What and who would Gi Joe be infiltrating while working as a uniformed cop. Other than Internal Affairs and trying to bust his co-workers, I can't think of any other targets for him.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

[snip for focus]

THOMAS A. RUDD, M.S., M.D., FCAP, FACNP

http://www.lakecountyil.gov/coroner/Pages/default.aspx

Thank you so much, blue: )

I am still confused. It seems a Coroner is over a death investigation.

I see that it says he is the one who sees to it that these proper scientific studies are preformed. So does he just oversee to make sure these things are done?

What are the Responsibilities of the Coroner?

The responsibilities of the Coroner are to ensure that the proper scientific studies are performed:

•Autopsy
•Toxicology tests
•Microscopic examinations
•Bacteriology
•X-rays
•Fingerprinting
•Taking and gathering reports
•Notification of death to families
•On-scene investigation
•Photographing
•Transportation of victims assuring chain of evidence security
•Evidence collecting
•Dental examination and identification
•Meeting with survivors
•Presiding at inquests
•Issuance of Death Certificates and Cremation Permits
Cooperating with:

•Medical agencies
•Funeral Directors
•Law enforcement agencies
•Fire & Rescue Departments

But if he is like a ME in most states then I more puzzled than ever that he is wanting to know the trajectory of the wound when he has examined the body himself.

Its still confusing because its the ME that testifies to the bullet path (trajectory) since he is the one who closely examined the body of the victim with the gunshot wound/s.

IMO

 

[i.b.nora]

The Lake County Coroner

FAQ

snip

What Authority Does the Coroner Have in Regard to the Dead Body?

Section 5/3-3019: No dead body…or the personal property of such a deceased person, shall be handled, moved, disturbed, embalmed or removed from the place of death by any person, except with the permission of the Coroner. Any person knowingly violating the provisions of this Section is guilty of Class A misdemeanor.

Section 5/3-3015: Where a death has occurred and the circumstances concerning the death are suspicious, obscure, mysterious and the cause of death cannot be established definitely except by autopsy, it shall be the duty of the Coroner to cause an autopsy to be performed.

Section 5/3-3021: The Coroner shall release the body of the decedent to the next-of-kin or to the funeral director selected by such persons. Authorization of appropriate next-of-kin is required by the Lake County Coroner's Office.

What is an Autopsy?

An autopsy is a surgical procedure (internal and external examination of the body) used to aid the Coroner in establishing a cause of death in those cases where the cause cannot be established with a reasonable degree of certainty without an autopsy or mandated by State Statute. An autopsy is performed by a licensed forensic pathologist who has been certified by the State of Illinois.​

Much more information for anyone interested in such things.

http://www.lakecountyil.gov/Coroner/Pages/FAQ.aspx

 

[cady]

i am officially lost with all this undercover "rumor."

NO ONE has said that "under cover" is a FACT. It is not a rumor (as the famous neck shot was) It is speculation, with no apparent evidence. Rumormongers purport what they say as the truth. "Undercover", is pure speculation. JMO

 

[khaki]

Thank you so much, blue: )

I am still confused. It seems a Coroner is over a death investigation.

I see that it says he is the one who sees to it that these proper scientific studies are preformed. So does he just oversee to make sure these things are done?

What are the Responsibilities of the Coroner?

The responsibilities of the Coroner are to ensure that the proper scientific studies are performed:

•Autopsy
•Toxicology tests
•Microscopic examinations
•Bacteriology
•X-rays
•Fingerprinting•Taking and gathering reports
•Notification of death to families
•On-scene investigation
•Photographing
•Transportation of victims assuring chain of evidence security
•Evidence collecting
•Dental examination and identification
•Meeting with survivors
•Presiding at inquests
•Issuance of Death Certificates and Cremation Permits
Cooperating with:

•Medical agencies
•Funeral Directors
•Law enforcement agencies
•Fire & Rescue Departments

But if he is like a ME in most states then I more puzzled than ever that he is wanting to know the trajectory of the wound when he has examined the body himself.

Its still confusing because its the ME that testifies to the bullet path (trajectory) since he is the one who closely examined the body of the victim with the gunshot wound/s.

IMO

I saw this and was very confused too. So far, what Dr. Rudd has said to media, and what's been reported he's said, have given me the impression he doesn't have what he needs, and the stuff I bolded above from oceanblueeyes' post jumps out at me. Did those things not occur?

 

[hockeymom4]

NO ONE has said that "under cover" is a FACT. It is not a rumor (as the famous neck shot was) It is speculation, with no apparent evidence. Rumormongers purport what they say as the truth. "Undercover", is pure speculation. JMO

That is why I said, rumor.

 

[cady]

But what agencies? FBI? Homeland Security? And who is he trying to fool by being undercover?

When I think 'undercover' I think of officers that wear plain clothes and unmarked cars and try and blend in with drug dealers and burglary rings in order to buy stolen goods/drugs.

What and who would Gi Joe be infiltrating while working as a uniformed cop. Other than Internal Affairs and trying to bust his co-workers, I can't think of any other targets for him.

Pure speculation.....he may have been investigating the local ones and/or PD department that he served as well as others in the area. Probably not, because it seems unimportant, but obviously the PD he was working for was troubled. Why? We do not know. JMO

 

[Solitaryone]

I do think they are making progress behind the scene. They have their suspicions about someone or more than one and I think they have been aggressively pursuing a lot of information they haven't made public. Most LEOs do not openly talk about what is happening in an investigation nor the evidence they have amassed. Imo, they are making progress but they just don't want the public to know what that progress entails. I think once this is solved its going to be a huge story in that area and maybe even nationally. A lot of cases take quite awhile to accumulate the evidence needed for an arrest. Its better to get it right rather than rushing and making mistakes.

I don't think I remember a case where LE had to give the ME the trajectory of the bullet.

In fact in the cases/trials I have seen it is always the ME in a case who usually gets up to testify in front of the jury, using a human dummy, and shows them the trajectory of the fatal wound/s by using straws or wooden dowels. He/she should already know the trajectory based on the bullet wound. I am sure once entering the body it traveled in a certain direction making a path through the internal torso area. So I am puzzled why the ME needs the ballistic experts to tell him this when Joe's body showed that already. He/she should already know if it was close range, mid range. or further away.

I still do not believe it was a suicide, but if it was, it was a crazy suicide for an experience 30 year LEO to do. If he was trying to fake a murder then why would he shoot his weapon underneath his body vest? He has been a police officer and military man long enough to know the best place to commit suicide is a shot to the head. Was he shot once or twice? And wasn't his firearm 100 feet away from his body? If he shot himself in once place and then fell dead in another location a 100 feet away there would be a blood trail from the first location to the second.

Is someone wanting others to think he committed suicide?

What I believe is either someone is hoping LE believes this is a very bizarre suicide or this has to do with the internal affairs ongoing investigation. It was said the officer involved has also been removed from duty during the investigation. So was Joe a whistleblower and he is the one who went to IA? Was someone very upset that Joe had crossed that blue line and blamed him for the IA investigation? Just things I wonder about.

Is Rudd a ME or a Coroner? From what I have read a ME has a degree in forensic pathology and is a medical doctor but a Coroner can be anyone without experience. Some of them were funeral directors before being elected Coroner by the voters in a county.

There is a Coroner in the surrounding county from where I live. All people who are found to have died a suspicious death their body is examined by the GBIs medical examiners office. The coroner doesn't do autopsies. So why wasn't Joe's body sent to a medical examiner to be autopsied instead of a Coroner? I am sure the Illinois state police agency has a full ME staff. Why wasn't his body sent to Chicago and examined by a ME?

Maybe I am not quite understanding why a Coroner did it and not a forensic pathologist (ME) who is very knowledgeable in bullet wounds and trajectories. If anyone would be kind enough to answer this for me I would appreciate it very much.

IMO

I think Rudd is the Coroner rather than the ME.

Here's a couple links about Rudd I found. More at links.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...coroner-accreditation-republican-steve-newton

"Rudd has also proposed switching the coroner's office to a medical examiner's office, which is generally run by an appointed rather than elected forensic pathologist. He has said such a change could take some convincing of county officials and voters, since it would ultimately have to be put to referendum."

Of interest from link below:

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20120131/submitted/301319694/

Key Issue 2

Right now the office is operating as an extension of law enforcement. This can prove to be a flaw that may present conflicts of interest. I promise that all death investigations will be nonpolitical and neutral without any hint of conflicts of interest. As Coroner I will affirm a cordial and collegial, but impartial relationship with other death investigation organizations of the county.

=========


As far as I know it hasn't been released as to how far the gun was found from Lt.Gliniewicz's body, though I have heard it reported that it was nearby. Someone posted an article that revealed no GSR tests on Lt.Gliniewicz's clothing had been done yet. Here, post #845.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-Fox-Lake-1-Sep-2015&p=12052378#post12052378


Also, I read somewhere it wasn't until yesterday until LE interviewed the Wife. As of Sept.9, they had not done so.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investiga...fficers-Shooting-326100651.html#ixzz3lI1g7pGJ


In the meantime, Filenko confirmed Wednesday that officers have yet to interview Gliniewicz’s family, a meeting they hope to set up within the next few days.

“We’re giving the family time to grieve,” he said. “Obviously we’ve got to respect the widow’s privacy.”

It seems to me LE investigative protocol have not been followed in this case. Wouldn't these things have been done already as a matter of procedure? What else hasn't been done or shared with the Coroner? One has to ask why what seem to be routine procedures in an investigation of an LE officer's shooting death have seemingly not been followed. Not only that, but LE identified AND cleared the three men who matched the description of the suspects. I don't for a second believe there were two groups of men matching the description that morning, with one group being at the cement company at the time of the shooting, while the other group is seen on surveilliance video at the same time, and one of the group of three being located and cleared.

I can't give you answers to your other questions because LE has not been forthcoming. Hopefully the media will start asking these questions. I think the LE thought this was a murder at first, then as they investigated further they saw it may not have been as cut-and-dried as they thought and are in panic mode now. I think they are going to blame the Coroner for the lack of resolution in this case so they don't have to come out and say they were wrong. All JMO.

 

[cady]

That is why I said, rumor.

What do you think happened to Lt. Gliniewicz? Why? What is the evidence that you have to reach a conclusion? JMO

 

[al66pine]

Has this agenda for Fox Lake Village Board Meeting already bn posted & discussed? Any possible relevance?

"SPECIAL VILLAGE BOARD MEETING
66 Thillen Drive, Fox Lake Board Room August 19, 2015, 6:00 p.m. AGENDA
I. Call to Order
II. Pledge of Allegiance
III. Roll Call
IV. Executive Session – Personnel and Threatened Litigation...."
http://www.foxlake.org/Archive.aspx


ETA: And then the minutes from ^ meeting, same link.

"STATE OF ILLINOIS,
Lake and McHenry Counties,
Village of Fox Lake
}
.... Roll Call Present Mayor Schmit; Clerk Warden; Village Attorney Howard Teegen; Trustees: Murrey, Jensen, Stochl and Marr, Koske and Trustee Konwent.
Also in attendance was Anne Marrin, Village Administrator, Carol Ward, Deputy Clerk, and Yvette Heinzelman, Labor Attorney...."

Bd went into exec session to "Discuss Personnel and Pending Litigation."

 

[night train]

I am just a few short minutes away from where Lt. Glimiewicz expired. There are so many frustrated people that I encounter daily speaking about this case. Here are just a few conversions that I have encountered being local.

In late 2013, a motion was made for the mayor sign a contract for acquisition of 128 Honing road in Fox Lake. Apparently it it is believed that 128 Honing is one of the patrol areas that he was assigned to.

Questions here pertaining to the time of the incident. The ones I spoke to here stated that it was a time for students, not drug dealers/users to be in the area.

Hi Thora_Jay from one local to another.

I wasn't aware of the 2013 motion,thankyou...

My understanding is that in Lake County,Fox Lake is the number one location to score heroin and the area is a waypoint for the Chicago to Wisconsin connection.Unfortunately students are definitely consuming,no reason a low level dealer wouldn't be available on a warm sunny morning.

With regard to many other posts here today,I'm sticking with the heroin theme,and the enormous amount of money that represents.

 

[katydid23]

I think Rudd is the Coroner rather than the ME.

Here's a couple links about Rudd I found. More at links.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...coroner-accreditation-republican-steve-newton

"Rudd has also proposed switching the coroner's office to a medical examiner's office, which is generally run by an appointed rather than elected forensic pathologist. He has said such a change could take some convincing of county officials and voters, since it would ultimately have to be put to referendum."

Of interest from link below:

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20120131/submitted/301319694/

Key Issue 2

Right now the office is operating as an extension of law enforcement. This can prove to be a flaw that may present conflicts of interest. I promise that all death investigations will be nonpolitical and neutral without any hint of conflicts of interest. As Coroner I will affirm a cordial and collegial, but impartial relationship with other death investigation organizations of the county.

=========


As far as I know it hasn't been released as to how far the gun was found from Lt.Gliniewicz's body, though I have heard it reported that it was nearby. Someone posted an article that revealed no GSR tests on Lt.Gliniewicz's clothing had been done yet. Here, post #845.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-Fox-Lake-1-Sep-2015&p=12052378#post12052378


Also, I read somewhere it wasn't until yesterday until LE interviewed the Wife. As of Sept.9, they had not done so.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investiga...fficers-Shooting-326100651.html#ixzz3lI1g7pGJ


In the meantime, Filenko confirmed Wednesday that officers have yet to interview Gliniewicz’s family, a meeting they hope to set up within the next few days.

“We’re giving the family time to grieve,” he said. “Obviously we’ve got to respect the widow’s privacy.”

It seems to me LE investigative protocol have not been followed in this case. Wouldn't these things have been done already as a matter of procedure? What else hasn't been done or shared with the Coroner? One has to ask why what seem to be routine procedures in an investigation of an LE officer's shooting death have seemingly not been followed. Not only that, but LE identified AND cleared the three men who matched the description of the suspects. I don't for a second believe there were two groups of men matching the description that morning, with one group being at the cement company at the time of the shooting, while the other group is seen on surveilliance video at the same time, and one of the group of three being located and cleared.

I can't give you answers to your other questions because LE has not been forthcoming. Hopefully the media will start asking these questions. I think the LE thought this was a murder at first, then as they investigated further they saw it may not have been as cut-and-dried as they thought and are in panic mode now. I think they are going to blame the Coroner for the lack of resolution in this case so they don't have to come out and say they were wrong. All JMO.

Great questions.

But as for the BBM< and the interview with the widow and sons, I don't think it is protocol to quickly bring them in for questioning when an officer dies on duty. If he was shot in his front yard then I suppose the family would have been brought in quickly.

But when an officer dies out in the field on duty, the widow and children are not immediately ushered in and questioned as part of the investigation. If one of the family had any ideas about threats or weird calls or something, then they would probably go to the investigators themselves. But I don't think the investigators are breaking with procedure by waiting until after the funeral to question the family.JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Hi Thora_Jay from one local to another.

I wasn't aware of the 2013 motion,thankyou...

My understanding is that in Lake County,Fox Lake is the number one location to score heroin and the area is a waypoint for the Chicago to Wisconsin connection.Unfortunately students are definitely consuming,no reason a low level dealer wouldn't be available on a warm sunny morning.

With regard to many other posts here today,I'm sticking with the heroin theme,and the enormous amount of money that represents.

Is this a local rumour or have you read about it in the news... or something else?

 

[katydid23]

Hi Thora_Jay from one local to another.

I wasn't aware of the 2013 motion,thankyou...

My understanding is that in Lake County,Fox Lake is the number one location to score heroin and the area is a waypoint for the Chicago to Wisconsin connection.Unfortunately students are definitely consuming,no reason a low level dealer wouldn't be available on a warm sunny morning.

With regard to many other posts here today,I'm sticking with the heroin theme,and the enormous amount of money that represents.

Heroin is something I was leaning towards as well. My kids graduated from a middle class suburban high school 5 yrs ago and 10 years ago. Ten yrs ago when my son was there, heroin was unheard of on campus. Kids used pot and alcohol and some coke and pills. But when my daughter was graduating she became aware of a few heroin users in her senior class. And all of the kids were shocked to learn of it.

She has friends with younger siblings at the school and they say that Heroin is rampant now. It is very sad. There have been a few arrests after two students OD'd. But it is middle to upper middle class suburb and heroin has become 'accepted' as a way to replace Oxycontin it seems.

 

[cady]

The heroin angle is not out of the question, but then if a task force is on the case, where are the three people that Lt. Gliniewicz encountered? And given the opportunity, why not make SURE that he died by shooting him in the head? And why was CG so casual when initially reporting them as suspicious, such that he pursued them alone, on foot with no back-up? Perplexing.....JMO

 

[katydid23]

The heroin angle is not out of the question, but then if a task force is on the case, where are the three people that Lt. Gliniewicz encountered? And given the opportunity, why not make SURE that he died by shooting him in the head? And why was CG so casual when initially reporting them as suspicious, such that he pursued them alone, on foot with no back-up? Perplexing.....JMO

I thought he sounded casual too. And it didn't give me the feeling he was about to shoot himself.

I thought he was 'casual' because he worked so closely with high school kids. And he probably did not sense any real danger. He probably figured he could nab one of them and that is all he'd need to eventually get to the others. He probably just wanted to see if they were smoking pot or were actually scoring heroin, as either one could have been in play. But I don't think he perceived it would be a life and death encounter.

Also, this part might be hard to explain, but I will try. When my daughter was in school, we had a great Community Resource Officer who was on campus full time. he knew many of the kids very well because he had kids and they played sports together etc. Anyway, he went out of his way to give kids 'second and third' chances if he found a joint in the parking lot etc. He let kids walk from smaller things that could have gotten them permanently expelled, but he kind of 'negotiated' with them for future good behavior. My daughter, at 15, was busted with a group of kids at a beer pong party. It could have been horrible if he had charged them all with alcohol offenses. NONE of them were driving--it was a sleep over and none of them were super drunk. But anyway, he made it known to all of them that he could bring those charges up again at any time if they ever got caught again. And it kept our girl under better control. She did not want to be expelled and she appreciated him for giving her and her friends a second chance at staying in that school with friends they had since elementary.

So all that said, it made me think that he might have known who he was chasing but he didn't want to ID them on the radio because that would tie his hands in case they had a joint or something. He would not be able to look the other way and negotiate for better future behavior as some School Resource officers do. Many of them think the ZERO TOLERANCE rules are unfair and do not want to abide by them. JMO