IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

[Cubby]

FWIW, I don't think this case will end up as undetermined. I don't believe for a second that an elected official is going to allow Filenko to strong arm him into not making a ruling on the MOD.

I'm more than happy to patiently wait for Rudd's decision once he has all the evidence he needs to determine the manner of death.

 

[Japple]

for those interested in the topography of the area, try Bing maps. the arial is older than google maps, and the birdseye is even older. but the birdseye gives a good representation of the land at what I believe to be this time of year. the different angles are interesting.

 

[Chuz Life]

I haven't discounted the possibility that he may have had a medical diagnosis of lung cancer which was discussed a few days ago. In his mind, if this was a suicide, he was taking care of his financial obligations to his family, and preserving his legacy of heroism. I understand that. But if any of that is true, it was certainly a big risk that he wouldn't be found out. Now it looks like he may have caused more pain for everyone, which I really don't believe was his intention. JMO

I really appreciate your thinking and your sensitivity, Cady. You have a beautiful mind and heart.

 

[Cubby]

Many posts are reading as if suicide has been confirmed.
Did I miss something?

Not confirmed by the coroner, but the following pretty much spells it out.

Sources tell Fox News two shell casings were found about 100 feet apart from each other near Gliniewicz’s body, which was discovered face down. His hand was in a gun position, the firearm “dropped at his body.”

One bullet hit Gliniewicz in his bulletproof vest. The second and fatal shot struck him underneath his vest, fired in a downward trajectory, near the heart. There was no sign of a struggle or defensive wounds—especially one to save his own life.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/1...ibility-suicide-in-shooting-death-ill-police/

 

[TheDuchess]

I still stick with my original theory that high school kids did it. That explains the quietness of the investigation. If they are minors, I think the police are waiting them out. I don't know whether or not the two boys who disappeared that day have gone home yet. I think one of them did go home. I think the PD knows exactly who they are looking for, so they don't need the feds anymore.

JMO

I would like to learn more about this angle, because I have heard about these "missing" high school students from several different people.

 

[Cubby]

Not confirmed by the coroner, but the following pretty much spells it out.

Sources tell Fox News two shell casings were found about 100 feet apart from each other near Gliniewicz’s body, which was discovered face down. His hand was in a gun position, the firearm “dropped at his body.”

One bullet hit Gliniewicz in his bulletproof vest. The second and fatal shot struck him underneath his vest, fired in a downward trajectory, near the heart. There was no sign of a struggle or defensive wounds—especially one to save his own life.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/1...ibility-suicide-in-shooting-death-ill-police/

Sorry to quote myself but for those who are angry or may be angry at Lt. CG for calling in the report about three subjects, which at this point seems almost impossible as there was no evidence found to date to confirm those three subjects exist, consider this.

The above description is how authorities found Lt. CG within 30 minutes of his radio call. Everything that came after that, staging the police presence, the 400 plus experts, the schools on lock down, etc. etc. came from the task force run by Filenko.

 

[Chuz Life]

With all the talk about suicide, I would like to remind everyone that there remains a possibility that it was not an intentional suicide.

The Lt was obviously obsessed with all things "police" related. With all the stories in the news about "black lives matter" and even stories of cops being targeted and murdered, etc. The Lt may have got caught up in the hype.

I for one still do lean towards believing it was an intentional suicide. However, I can't rule out the possibility that it might have been a stunt for recognition and publicity (to gain more sympathy for officers). . . and maybe it just went horribly wrong.

I base this on some of the Lt's training videos where you can see how animated he was and how intensely invested he was in his skills and image.

 

[TheDuchess]

Couple of thoughts before nighty night.

Although many of us are talking seriously about the suicide possibility, it has NOT been confirmed. We are still just speculating, based upon what limited information is getting released about the case.

I asked a question a while ago and no one has answered it, that I know of, and have not heard anyone else ask it. But how sure are we that the voice we hear on the recording is in fact LTs voice? It sounds muffled, digitized, etc...to me and as we have seen from his videos, quite different than his normal speak. I would expect that on a call. But I just wonder if any actual analysis has been done in that respect. Where I am going with this would be a trusted person with him at the time who either overpowered him or threatened him, or incapacitated him in some way and murdered him back there. Then calmly radioed it in, pretending to me the LT. Just a thought.

Also, I would like to point out the fact that NO evidence, isn't necessarily "evidence." I keep hearing that because we haven't found the suspects, that they don't exist. Yes, I understand there was a massive manhunt and search dogs and helicopters and perimeters, etc...however...it would not be the first time someone was able to get away without being seen or even ever being caught. There are plenty of unsolved murders out there. To convince me of suicide, I would need evidence OF a suicide, not just a lack of evidence of a murder, such as ballistics, shot trajectory analysis, blood spatter analysis, gunpower residue, etc... I would also want corroborating evidence to support a motive. Sure, being shot in the line of duty pays a hefty sum to the family, but if that were truly a motive, we'd have LEOs offing themselves all the time. I know it isn't completely unheard of, but this takes the cake. Was he having serious money issues, so much so that an able bodied, experienced, intelligent, physically fit man would feel that the only way out would be suicide? I would need more. Was he sick and no one knew? Was his marriage in trouble? Was there an affair? I mean, there has to be something more for me to be convinced, at least at this point.
Finally, I will say this, and it could point to one theory or the other. But reviewing his FB page, the LT was very socially active in the counter-BLM movement. Lots of posts about standing up for LE. Lots of posts anti Obama and Holder. Lots of posts that went against the recent anti-police narratives that have been going around the past couple of years. Maybe this made him a target? Or maybe he felt that going out this way would actually help push the call for supporting LE? It initially did have a huge impact on turning the tables the other way. Suddenly, people were turning on blue porch lights, and posting stuff all over facebook, and going to vigils and going to the funeral procession. Did he think that would happen, he would be hero, his family would be taken care of, and his death would have meant something? If so, did he think he was smarter than all of the investigators involved in the case? He doesn't come across as dumb. He must have been aware that any plan could never be perfectly foolproof.

So while I am starting to veer in the direction of accepting that suicide is a very viable possibility, I am not quite there yet. Peace out all. I hope this case is resolved soon for the peace of his family, his fellow officers and the community.

 

[TheDuchess]

With all the talk about suicide, I would like to remind everyone that there remains a possibility that it was not an intentional suicide.

The Lt was obviously obsessed with all things "police" related. With all the stories in the news about "black lives matter" and even stories of cops being targeted and murdered, etc. The Lt may have got caught up in the hype.

I for one still do lean towards believing it was an intentional suicide. However, I can't rule out the possibility that it might have been a stunt for recognition and publicity (to gain more sympathy for officers). . . and maybe it just went horribly wrong.

I base this on some of the Lt's training videos where you can see how animated he was and how intensely invested he was in his skills and image.

Amazing how closely our posts are considering we were both posting at the same time!

 

[Montjoy]

I base this on some of the Lt's training videos where you can see how animated he was and how intensely invested he was in his skills and image.

I don't think we have enough information to say definitively that this was or was not a suicide -- but let's just be fair...the way he acted in some training videos is not enough to say that he wouldn't have killed himself. I'm not saying that he did, though I think it is highly probable. But just the same, I think it's silly to say that because he was animated in a training video, he would not kill himself later.

 

[Chuz Life]

I asked a question a while ago and no one has answered it, that I know of, and have not heard anyone else ask it. But how sure are we that the voice we hear on the recording is in fact LTs voice?

The dispatcher and everyone else on that police channel would have recognized someone trying to imitate the Lt's voice. Wouldn't they?

It sounds muffled, digitized, etc...to me and as we have seen from his videos, quite different than his normal speak.

That's because the Police Dept.s (likely Motorola turbo) radio repeater / system is clearly "digital." While the video's record in analogue or much higher quality digital than the radio systems utilize.

 

[Tillicum]

I couldn't agree with you more Duchess.

 

[Chuz Life]

I don't think we have enough information to say definitively that this was or was not a suicide -- but let's just be fair...the way he acted in some training videos is not enough to say that he wouldn't have killed himself.

Agreed. And I don't see why you thought that was my claim.

I referred to the training videos only to support how invested in his profession and image he was.

I'm not saying that he did, though I think it is highly probable. But just the same, I think it's silly to say that because he was animated in a training video, he would not kill himself later.

Again, you seem to have misinterpreted my post.

I was only trying to present a basis for how and why the Lt. may have been compelled to stage an incident and how that attempt could have went wrong.

 

[TheDuchess]

The dispatcher and everyone else on that police channel would have recognized someone trying to imitate the Lt's voice. Wouldn't they?



That's because the Police Dept.s (likely Motorola turbo) radio repeater / system is clearly "digital." While the video's record in analogue or much higher quality digital than the radio systems utilize.

First of all, you are really good with the clipping technique! But as far as would the others have noticed it wasn't him, I don't know. That is why I'm asking the question. If his voice and tenor is well known, it could be easy for someone to mimic him in the very limited communication that was given. I really don't know, as it's just a theory.

 

[Montjoy]

Agreed. And I don't see why you thought that was my claim.

I referred to the training videos only to support how invested in his profession and image he was.



Again, you seem to have misinterpreted my post.

I was only trying to present a basis for how and why the Lt. may have been compelled to stage an incident and how that attempt could have went wrong.

For what it's worth, my quoting you was not to suggest that I disagreed with you.

 

[Chuz Life]

First of all, you are really good with the clipping technique! But as far as would the others have noticed it wasn't him, I don't know. That is why I'm asking the question. If his voice and tenor is well known, it could be easy for someone to mimic him in the very limited communication that was given. I really don't know, as it's just a theory.

It's a fair question, TD.

With all the scrutiny and the number of times it's been reviewed, I think it would have detected before now. That's all.

 

[Chuz Life]

For what it's worth, my quoting you was not to suggest that I disagreed with you.

Thank you.

I'm curious as to how investigators will be able to discern between an accidental and an intentional suicide at this point. What investigative techniques will be used, etc.

Personally, I can see how the Lt. would have had motives for both an intentional suicide and for the staging of a fake "assault" on himself that might have gone bad and resulted in his (unintended) death.

 

[Thora_Jay]

Memorial in front of Police Station
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...57778250037.1073741828.100009974479088&type=1

News crews in Police Station parking lot
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...54518250363.1073741827.100009974479088&type=1

Corner of Precision Tool and the cement plant
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...54518250363.1073741827.100009974479088&type=1

Barricade to the entrance of the cement plant
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...54518250363.1073741827.100009974479088&type=1

 

[vestigare]

Couple of thoughts before nighty night.

Although many of us are talking seriously about the suicide possibility, it has NOT been confirmed. We are still just speculating, based upon what limited information is getting released about the case.

I asked a question a while ago and no one has answered it, that I know of, and have not heard anyone else ask it. But how sure are we that the voice we hear on the recording is in fact LTs voice? It sounds muffled, digitized, etc...to me and as we have seen from his videos, quite different than his normal speak. I would expect that on a call. But I just wonder if any actual analysis has been done in that respect. Where I am going with this would be a trusted person with him at the time who either overpowered him or threatened him, or incapacitated him in some way and murdered him back there. Then calmly radioed it in, pretending to me the LT. Just a thought.

Also, I would like to point out the fact that NO evidence, isn't necessarily "evidence." I keep hearing that because we haven't found the suspects, that they don't exist. Yes, I understand there was a massive manhunt and search dogs and helicopters and perimeters, etc...however...it would not be the first time someone was able to get away without being seen or even ever being caught. There are plenty of unsolved murders out there. To convince me of suicide, I would need evidence OF a suicide, not just a lack of evidence of a murder, such as ballistics, shot trajectory analysis, blood spatter analysis, gunpower residue, etc... I would also want corroborating evidence to support a motive. Sure, being shot in the line of duty pays a hefty sum to the family, but if that were truly a motive, we'd have LEOs offing themselves all the time. I know it isn't completely unheard of, but this takes the cake. Was he having serious money issues, so much so that an able bodied, experienced, intelligent, physically fit man would feel that the only way out would be suicide? I would need more. Was he sick and no one knew? Was his marriage in trouble? Was there an affair? I mean, there has to be something more for me to be convinced, at least at this point.
Finally, I will say this, and it could point to one theory or the other. But reviewing his FB page, the LT was very socially active in the counter-BLM movement. Lots of posts about standing up for LE. Lots of posts anti Obama and Holder. Lots of posts that went against the recent anti-police narratives that have been going around the past couple of years. Maybe this made him a target? Or maybe he felt that going out this way would actually help push the call for supporting LE? It initially did have a huge impact on turning the tables the other way. Suddenly, people were turning on blue porch lights, and posting stuff all over facebook, and going to vigils and going to the funeral procession. Did he think that would happen, he would be hero, his family would be taken care of, and his death would have meant something? If so, did he think he was smarter than all of the investigators involved in the case? He doesn't come across as dumb. He must have been aware that any plan could never be perfectly foolproof.

So while I am starting to veer in the direction of accepting that suicide is a very viable possibility, I am not quite there yet. Peace out all. I hope this case is resolved soon for the peace of his family, his fellow officers and the community.

I know very little about gliniwiczz personally; I haven't read his tweets or facebook or watched his videos or anything else not discussed secondhand. If he was huge in the anti-BLM and considering he is LEO in a town with so few blacks it makes me believe even more strongly he purposely inserted a black man into his trio just to illicit a reaction he thought the local LE would be more likely to respond to.

I am not automatically inclined to think the best here. He was a thirty year veteran of LE and spent his entire life in this particular area. He knew what that description meant. He also want some Lt. In some backward department that knows little about anything. This county is so well known for the numerous cases involving corrupt LE and forced confessions that it currently stands today as still holding the largest fakse conviction payout to a single person in the USA.

We may never know his motive for suicide. If he was sick like I suspect, the family is not required to ever release his medical or tell us. Most suicides have no motive and are left to the person who decided to commit them. But if he killed himself there is ballistic proof he was holding the gun or at least that gun was held close enough to him to make that shot.

I am just speculating this is suicide based on what we know because right now it makes more sense to me than anything else does.

 

[vestigare]

I really appreciate your thinking and your sensitivity, Cady. You have a beautiful mind and heart.

I was the one with the packs of marlboro picture and lung cancer speculation and I still wonder if he was sick or suspected he was very sick and too scared to get checked out and figured this was the better way to go.

With talk about his BLM stance etc I do wonder now if his trio was so innocent afterall or if was making some political ppint hoping for more attention which is even more awful especially in an area where no blacks live and the police are quick to force confessions.