IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

[Woe.be.gone]

Clarification from yesterday's Casciaro case update - Johnsburg is not located in Lake County. It is in McHenry county.

Oh, I beg everyone's pardon.

Don't know how or why I posted the county incorrectly.
Several months ago, I happened upon a show about the case so was a bit familiar with the evidence, or lack thereof.
The circumstances surrounding the case really bothered me.

Thanks for the correction.

McHenry County apparently has (or had) problems too.
http://www.nwherald.com/2014/10/02/...ion-in-johnsburg-teens-murder/azee5q9/?page=1

In case anybody is interested, the article above, from October 2014, gives a basic idea of what happened within the powers that be.
The case stems all the way back to 2002.

Geesh, I thought this meant MC would be released.
Now, McHenry County Prosecutor wants to challenge the reversal.
Michael Combs, I disagree with you. Don't people like you ever admit when you've made a mistake?

http://www.nwherald.com/2015/09/18/...y-after-murder-conviction-overturned/a4ppmgq/

Sorry for going off topic. Just I feel so strongly about this case and the case of the daycare worker - both were falsely convicted.

 

[vestigare]

Whether anyone thinks gliniewicz had a political motivation for the races he chose (IF he concocted the trio) the fact is people have been speculating on it since the first thought of them not existing, which dates back to within days of sept 1st. That is just something people are going to have to deal with in the community and among police.

I have not seen his Facebook but have been told of things he posted and I had wondered about this angle BEFORE I even heard he had postings regarding BLM , simply because he is LE.

I Know first hand many in law enforcement are jumpy about BLM regardless of whether they are racist.

I think people are assuming if you dislike BLM is makes you racist. Not necessarily.
It makes you anti that particular movement.

And the fact is many police unions, groups and departments are very very wary of this group and they have been in the news a great deal and some news stories even pointed automatically to a possible connection to BLM when this first happened. As they did when Goforth was killed.

 

[vestigare]

Just a few notes based on some of the recent comments, that I would like to make.

First of all, for those of you who have NOT read his FB comments, I would like to clarify that I personally do NOT see anything he has ever stated as racist. All I was trying to state was that SOME may feel that SOME may think it could be considered racist. In other words, Antioch may have not thought it was racist, but may have been concerned that OTHERS may have thought it was racist. Simply because he was against the BLM movement, the riots in Ferguson, Obama, etc...does NOT mean he is a racist, although there are some who would suggest that. So I only pointed out what I thought MAY have been one reason that Antioch passed on him. I do not want anyone to falsely think there is any indication that he is racist in any way, shape or form.

Sure, Chantix can make you suicidal, but generally there would be other symptoms as well, such as vast changes in behavior that may well have been noticed by those close to him. There is no indication of that at all. If this was a suicide, it wasn't because he was depressed. It would have been a calculated choice based upon what he felt was in the best interest of his family. I truly believe this. I don't agree with it, but I believe that is what he would have believed. He lived a life spent serving others. That may be how he wanted to go out.

I have not seen his Twitter account though that someone mentioned. Is someone able to link to it?

TIA

I completely agree. Being anti BLM does not mean he is racist.

I believe the likely explanation for why he chose the race (if concocted trio) was because it would garner a political reaction.

BLM is huge among LE right now and not race so much as it is them against us sort of mentality.

 

[Chuz Life]

The point is if he in fact did concoct these three out of thin air then why did he choose the racial makeup he chose? This is what people are discussing inlight of his apparent discussions on social media. As I pointed out days ago he didn't even need to describe them at all.

I don't see why (some) people are putting so much thought into that. It could have been that he noticed the three men (also caught on video) and just decided to go with that without giving it any more thought than that.

 

[vestigare]

I don't see why (some) people are putting so much thought into that. It could have been that he noticed the three caught on video and just decided to go with that without giving it any more thought than that.

My thought is because I doubt he didn't pass a single other group of people that morning. So why that group? And if he actually saw a real group and described them then that imo is even worse because they existed to be potentially arrested, shot, jailed, imprisoned.

That doesn't make his choice somehow better. To me his description at all was irresponsible and I doubt he didn't have some thought to what he was saying.

As for others you will to ask them. I have heard many reasons.

 

[Chuz Life]

My thought is because I doubt he didn't pass a single other group of people that morning. So why that group? And if he actually saw a real group and described them then that imo is even worse because they existed to be potentially arrested, shot, jailed, imprisoned.

That doesn't make his choice somehow better. To me his description at all was irresponsible and I doubt he didn't have some thought to what he was saying.

As for others you will to ask them. I have heard many reasons.

Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't expect a rational line of reasoning from someone who was acting as irrationally as the Lt seems to have been acting that day.

 

[cassandval]

Here is the appellate court's ruling on the Casciaro case. http://www.illinoiscourts.gov/Opinions/AppellateCourt/2015/2ndDistrict/2131291.pdf

 

[vestigare]

Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't expect a rational line of reasoning from someone who was acting as irrationally as the Lt seems to have been acting that day.

We will have to wait to see if there is any evidence to suggest he planned this out. I have to think he didn't just get up that morning and suddenly decide while on his way to work to kill himself without much thought going into it.

I also prescribe to the thought that suicide can be a rational thing to do and I don't automatically excuse all a person's actions leading up to it as irrational just because they committed suicide.

 

[cady]

Looks like tests still have not been completed which are critical, so I wonder what those in the meeting will discuss? Any ideas? JMO

 

[cady]

IDK if police in IL get social security. I think it's a state pension only. They don't pay into social security.

UGH. I hope they do get SS.... Several friends who have state pensions from MI get social security as well. One worked for the MI Dept of corrections (administrative) another was a county Probation Agent. So, not police officers. JMO

 

[stg]

UGH. I hope they do get SS.... Several friends who have state pensions from MI get social security as well. One worked for the MI Dept of corrections (administrative) another was a county Probation Agent. So, not police officers. JMO

They typically don't. Almost all Illinois state employees (myself included, though I am not in LE), including policemen, pay into the state pension system and receive that rather than SS upon retiring. It is a very nice pension, though, way above what SS pays.

 

[Cubby]

UGH. I hope they do get SS.... Several friends who have state pensions from MI get social security as well. One worked for the MI Dept of corrections (administrative) another was a county Probation Agent. So, not police officers. JMO

Cook county and Chicago LE do not get SS. IDK about Lake County.

 

[Cubby]

Just a friendly reminder. There is a thread to discuss Brian Carrick's case, this thread is for Lt. Gliniewicz's case.

Here is a link to the thread discussing Brian Carrick's case

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ohnsburg-20-December-2002-M-Casciaro-*guilty*

 

[cady]

I just read 113 comments based on the John Kass article in the CHI. Tribune from a few days ago. I was glad to see that some of us with suspicions are not alone. The far greater percentage of people commenting there were in alignment with the same questions and speculation that we have. Interesting civil reading. JMO

 

[i.b.nora]

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/21619159-story

Updated:Sep 18 2015 07:29PM CDT

I copied and pasted the following from the two posts that first brought this article here.

CHICAGO (FOX 32 News) - "A critical meeting between investigators and the coroner in the case involving the shooting death of Fox Lake Police Lt. Joe Gliniewicz is finally about to happen. It could mean the task force is a step closer to determining how he was killed.

But FOX 32 News has learned that there have been unforeseen complications in critical ballistics tests that have delayed the investigation. Lake County Sheriff’s Detective Chris Covelli confirms that the Northeastern Illinois Crime lab was unable to do all the necessary ballistics test, requiring that some highly sophisticated camera equipment be brought in from another lab to conduct additional tests to make sure nothing is missed.

Those tests are focused on reconstructing the trajectory of the bullet that killed Gliniewicz, as well as the distance from which it was likely fired. Tests are still also being done on the bullet that killed the officer."​

Am I the only one that finds this somewhat concerning? For me, it kind of puts in question ALL the other work that has been or is currently being done at that Northeastern Illinois crime lab.

 

[Cubby]

I copied and pasted the following from the two posts that first brought this article here.

CHICAGO (FOX 32 News) - "A critical meeting between investigators and the coroner in the case involving the shooting death of Fox Lake Police Lt. Joe Gliniewicz is finally about to happen. It could mean the task force is a step closer to determining how he was killed.

But FOX 32 News has learned that there have been unforeseen complications in critical ballistics tests that have delayed the investigation. Lake County Sheriff’s Detective Chris Covelli confirms that the Northeastern Illinois Crime lab was unable to do all the necessary ballistics test, requiring that some highly sophisticated camera equipment be brought in from another lab to conduct additional tests to make sure nothing is missed.

Those tests are focused on reconstructing the trajectory of the bullet that killed Gliniewicz, as well as the distance from which it was likely fired. Tests are still also being done on the bullet that killed the officer."​

Am I the only one that finds this somewhat concerning? For me, it kind of puts in question ALL the other work that has been or is currently being done at that Northeastern Illinois crime lab.

Thank you for bringing this forward. When I read this last night my first thought was they already said they had sent evidence to a multiple labs. On full rest seeing this again it is odd that they sent evidence to other labs but rather than send the bullet that killed Gliniewicz to a lab that had the equipment to analyze it properly they want that equipment sent to them. Yes, that's odd. It certainly doesn't leave room for much confidence in the investigation.

IMO, for the public to have confidence the current task force should step aside and let an agency with no bias do the investigation. This is going to be one of those cases that regardless of the ruling on MOD the spin and lack of confidence in the investigation is always going to leave room for debate.......


I can't recall following another case here where the information being put out to the public from those in the know has been so nutty. I'm going to hope the nuttiness is based on lack of experience dealing with the public with this type of crime, not lack of properly investigating the case. raying:

 

[cady]

I copied and pasted the following from the two posts that first brought this article here.

CHICAGO (FOX 32 News) - "A critical meeting between investigators and the coroner in the case involving the shooting death of Fox Lake Police Lt. Joe Gliniewicz is finally about to happen. It could mean the task force is a step closer to determining how he was killed.

But FOX 32 News has learned that there have been unforeseen complications in critical ballistics tests that have delayed the investigation. Lake County Sheriff’s Detective Chris Covelli confirms that the Northeastern Illinois Crime lab was unable to do all the necessary ballistics test, requiring that some highly sophisticated camera equipment be brought in from another lab to conduct additional tests to make sure nothing is missed.

Those tests are focused on reconstructing the trajectory of the bullet that killed Gliniewicz, as well as the distance from which it was likely fired. Tests are still also being done on the bullet that killed the officer."​

Am I the only one that finds this somewhat concerning? For me, it kind of puts in question ALL the other work that has been or is currently being done at that Northeastern Illinois crime lab.

Makes one wonder if lack of hi-tech equipment has resulted in improper convictions.........wow......JMO

 

[vestigare]

I copied and pasted the following from the two posts that first brought this article here.

CHICAGO (FOX 32 News) - "A critical meeting between investigators and the coroner in the case involving the shooting death of Fox Lake Police Lt. Joe Gliniewicz is finally about to happen. It could mean the task force is a step closer to determining how he was killed.

But FOX 32 News has learned that there have been unforeseen complications in critical ballistics tests that have delayed the investigation. Lake County Sheriff’s Detective Chris Covelli confirms that the Northeastern Illinois Crime lab was unable to do all the necessary ballistics test, requiring that some highly sophisticated camera equipment be brought in from another lab to conduct additional tests to make sure nothing is missed.

Those tests are focused on reconstructing the trajectory of the bullet that killed Gliniewicz, as well as the distance from which it was likely fired. Tests are still also being done on the bullet that killed the officer."​

Am I the only one that finds this somewhat concerning? For me, it kind of puts in question ALL the other work that has been or is currently being done at that Northeastern Illinois crime lab.

I have been thinking on this and trying to figure out what ballistics test would require a special camera and why it might pertain to this case.

High speed camera.

Now why would they need this for this particular case?
It is possible they want to test the mushrooming of the bullet at penetration at various distances.

I also wonder if they are testing some trajectory in conjunction to this mushrooming.

Stippling, tattooing and gun powder should be able to prove distance but perhaps because he fired several times this was complicated and they want to try to show a bullet could be shot from a distance and would reach enough of a downward fall that it would arch into the top of a vest and still have the energy to penetrate and mushroom in such a fashion as it did in this case. Or maybe they think his gun had a strange riffling action?

I really don't know what other evidence they have that they require this sort of testing and sure hope this isn't a case of hanging an entire case on some massive improbability when there is evidence otherwise?

I am very curious to see what this test will be.

 

[cady]

I'm probably just not able to visualize it, but if the shot arched and fell to where the entry wound is, wouldn't it have to have been shot from a great distance, and not good aim.? I'm just clueless about weapons and capacity, but I think that I understand trajectory enough for a luddite...lol. JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

We will have to wait to see if there is any evidence to suggest he planned this out. I have to think he didn't just get up that morning and suddenly decide while on his way to work to kill himself without much thought going into it.

I also prescribe to the thought that suicide can be a rational thing to do and I don't automatically excuse all a person's actions leading up to it as irrational just because they committed suicide.

You raise some interesting points but I doubt it's as black and white (pardon the pun) as it seems. It's very possible he had the majority of the encounter already planned. But that wouldn't mean that every detail was planned or has a political or nefarious reason. That also would not prevent him from spontaneously deviating for his original plans.