IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[Tillicum]

DUNNO. How did he lose control of his weapon in the first place? If he had been there, suspicious for 20 minutes, he probably had his gun drawn, so why didn't he shoot whoever was coming at him? This is just so convoluted! LOL JMO

Remember what I said about tree stands?

 

[tcer114]

Go back Japple

Based on the local news airing right now it looks like they are there live to report on the presser this morning.

 

[cady]

Remember what I said about tree stands?

LOL yeah, I remember. But whoever may have leapt out of a tree had to get to the ground first, in order to snatch the gun. Nobody jumped ON him, because there is no physical evidence of that. (I imagine THAT would hurt, ALOT!) JMO

 

[Japple]

Based on the local news airing right now it looks like they are there live to report on the presser this morning.

Yes. I talked to guy from wgn and thats what he said. Only 3 vans there now. WGN, ABC, and a third van was there. I didn't see the CNN truck. unless they were on the other side of the building.

 

[Tillicum]

I feel that if this is a homicide, then CG knew one or more of the three and trusted them until it was too late. In that case he might've been reluctant to give a full description in the beginning JMO.

 

[i.b.nora]

Washington Post reporting what Fox reporter, reported.

From September 16

“Gliniewicz’s body was found face down in a remote area, his service weapon next to him,” reported Fox News’s Matt Finn, citing the unnamed Task Force member. “Two shell casings were found: one came from a shot that hit Gliniewicz’s Kevlar vest; roughly 100 feet away, another casing was found from the fatal shot that struck Gliniewicz underneath his bulletproof vest in a downward trajectory, hitting him near the heart.”

“Sources say one hand was found underneath his chest in what’s described as a gun-holding position,” Finn continued. “Two separate sources say Gliniewicz had no defensive wounds and there was no sign of a struggle, especially one to save his own life.”

It’s still too early to say who killed Lt. Joe Gliniewicz, let alone why.

Like the broader debate over policing in America, the case of the beloved cop found dead in the dirt is proving more complicated than first meets the eye.​

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ked-outrage-and-a-tears-but-was-it-a-suicide/

By Michael E. Miller September 16, 2015

 

[longlonglake]

Was the first shot that hit the vest absolutely from his gun, also?

 

[Cubby]

Geeze....was it not reported that he was found FACE DOWN? These conflicting reports are driving me nuts. If he was incapacitated by the vest shot and fell forward, how was he then shot in the chest? If he fell backward, he had to get up from being incapacitated to be shot in the chest, underneath the vest, in order to fall forward and be found that way. JMO

That's what I am trying to work out here too. If he was on his knees after the first shot, I can only envision someone standing over him and shooting downward for the second bullet to go under the vest. But why was his hand in a shooting position and why would a perp leave the gun there?

Regarding signs of a struggle it appears there were signs of a struggle to the landscape area of the crime scene but no signs of struggle on his body. Which I think someone would have to come upon him quickly. Quick enough for him to be taken by surprise.

The only way I can make this work is Lt. CG really did see the three suspects who were later cleared and while on foot pursuit a fourth unrelated person came from from an area he wasn't watching. I think it's possible both hands could have been on the gun and while they were trying to twist it away from each other it could have gone off-in close range.

 

[cady]

Was the first shot that hit the vest absolutely from his gun, also?

YUP. According to presser today, of course, that could change, pending popular opinion.JMO

 

[cady]

Cubby....maybe try to recreate the acrobatics and then take some ibuprofen to rest and think about it. I would, but it would be too painful to try.! JK JMO

 

[Cubby]

I feel that if this is a homicide, then CG knew one or more of the three and trusted them until it was too late. In that case he might've been reluctant to give a full description in the beginning JMO.

I thought that at first too, but i think in this case a 4th person could have come out from an area he wasn't watching. I think if it were someone he trusted he would have been found in the open rather than the tall overgrown area.

In the linked article Filenko describes the swampy area like quicksand and the area filling up right away from foot prints. There would still be ground distutbances though......and they would somewhat resemble human walking. Running should leave more ground disturbance.......

 

[TheDuchess]

Just went past and only saw the guys from WGN doing a report and both trucks were them. Very quiet over there now other than a youth baseball game or practice going on.

That said I remember someone mentioning the reward and noticed this sign right next door to the FLPD.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[longlonglake]

Cubby....maybe try to recreate the acrobatics and then take some ibuprofen to rest and think about it. I would, but it would be too painful to try.! JK JMO

I wonder if someone with artist's wooden models could take a picture of how this could be done. Or someone with digital photo/video skills? Are you able to do that? That would be great.

 

[al66pine]

.... But why was his hand in a shooting position and why would a perp leave the gun there?....

^sbm & bbm^. Agreeing, seems some perps would think to selves -
I better take this gun w me, to avoid leaving DNA or fingerprints on it, which could easily LE cd use to (more easily) ID me.

OTOH, some perps would think -
I'll not take this gun w me, because if LE stops me w this gun, now or months from now, it links me to fatal shooting of LEO.

Of course, this^ assumes - someone other than Lt G shot the gun. Also azz-umes perp was thinking.
Just possibilities, IDK.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/lt-gliniewicz-struck-two-bullets-fox-lake-shooting-official

According to this older article, dated September 13th, forensic testing was being done on scrapings from under Lt. Gliniewicz's fingernails.
Those tests results may have revealed foreign DNA suggesting a possible struggle over the gun took place.
Maybe the Lt. scratched the perp's hand leaving suspect DNA behind under his nails or on his fingers/hands.
The first shot, the sledgehammer shot, may have left gun residue on Lt. G's hands as they struggled over the gun.
After the first shot, Lt. G. lost control.
Upon losing control of his gun, the second, more precise shot was fired.

Question - where were the individual casings found in relation to the others?
What is the usual distance an unobstructed casing would fling/travel?

 

[Keefer]

I think it was reported that one shell casing was found some distance from the other.
Distance a shell casing will travel is particular to that firearm. Most likely 3 to 12 feet though.
All kinds of scenarios are possible based on what " we" know. If this was not suicide, He could have encountered one or several people. It's possible that if one or more of them got close enough he could have been disarmed. He might have slipped or tripped or been tricked, we don't know. He might have been shot and ran only to be caught and shot again.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Trajectory was the term I was looking for - lots of studies have been conducted on the subject.
The experts are probably still working on this type of tests.

I've seen other posts on this subject and I read them. My brain only works at its own pace so I'm just catching up with this concept.

Considering the shooter didn't go far prior to getting the second shot off (but he may have stood up and/or changed position), there may be little difference in the results from the casings. But the results may be different enough to suggest Lt. G didn't fire the gun himself especially the second time it was fired.

The second shot may have been from a standing position, allowing an unobstructed casing to end up a greater distance away.
Because, if the second shot was fired by the Lt.'s own hand, he'd be low to the ground at that time thus his hands would be too.

Am I correct that one casing was found a (much) greater distance away than the other?

 

[Japple]

Trajectory was the term I was looking for - lots of studies have been conducted on the subject.
The experts are probably still working on this type of tests.

I've seen other posts on this subject and I read them. My brain only works at its own pace so I'm just catching up with this concept.

Considering the shooter didn't go far prior to getting the second shot off (but he may have stood up and/or changed position), there may be little difference in the results from the casings. But the results may be different enough to suggest Lt. G didn't fire the gun himself especially the second time it was fired.

The second shot may have been from a standing position, allowing an unobstructed casing to end up a greater distance away.
Because, if the second shot was fired by the Lt.'s own hand, he'd be low to the ground at that time thus his hands would be too.

Am I correct that one casing was found a (much) greater distance away than the other?

according to a source close to the investigation, one casing was found apox 100 feet from his body. I myself am not putting any merit to unnamed sources.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

My husband told me military members are swabbed (he thinks since 1990 for sure) upon entry. He remembers being swabbed a bunch of times which I wonder why wasn't once enough?
The Mr. thinks police would be swabbed, for various reasons, upon application and/or acceptance.
We were contemplating why every individual LE did not or does not have DNA on file already (maybe not tested but available if need be).

Anyway, I worked for an Embassy at one time and was fingerprinted along with my application or shortly thereafter but definitely prior to my first day on the job.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

according to a source close to the investigation, one casing was found apox 100 feet from his body. I myself am not putting any merit to unnamed sources.

Yes, the 100 feet away casing has been stated many times.
I don't recall the location of the other casing or if ever mentioned.
Comparing those two casing locations could possibly provide some answers.