IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[TheDuchess]

Right.

There is no solid/ clear evidence of a struggle.

If there was, there would be no serious consideration of this being a suicide at all.

Well apparently there were signs a struggle, leading investigators to believe there was one, but likely not clear enough to completely exclude it from being staged, thus still keeping suicide on the table.

I believe what Filenko says about this being complex. We all want it to be cut and dried, but it just simply isn't.

 

[katydid23]

Right.

There is no solid/ clear evidence of a struggle.

If there was, there would be no serious consideration of this being a suicide at all.

I disagree. I think there is 'clear' evidence that there might have been a struggle. But it could have been staged, therefore it is not definitive. That is why suicide is still on the table, imo.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If there was a struggle for the gun. Then his hand should have bruises or scratches or a perps touch dna. A officer will fight to make sure that you don't get his gun. So his hands would have been trying to hold on to the gun. Which means a perp would have to wrestle with LT hand to let go of the gun. Which means that LT hand should have scratches or bruises or a persons dna on it. Jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

Thanks.



This does not answer the question of why 'suicide' is still on the table if the investigators reasonably believe there actually was a struggle and the three suspects were actually real and involved.

If the investigators TRULY believed that there is evidence of a struggle and the suspects were actually there, there would be no talk of a possible suicide at all.

Would there?



See above.

Also, one source I read said that of the five samples of dna tested, only one of them were male. That made me contemplate the possibility that the Lt. may have had one or more lady friends. And that lead to even further speculations about other possible motives for suicide. After all his family has already been through, I would very much hate for that to be the case.

bbm

Homicide Investigation Ongoing Into Death of Fox Lake Police Officer After Evidence Shows Signs of Struggle

http://www.newsweek.com/homicide-in...olice-officer-after-evidence-378649?piano_d=1

Illinois cop was killed with own gun amid 'indications' of a struggle, investigators say

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/02/unidentified-dna-samples-found-where-illinois-officer-died/

The Illinois police officer whose fatal shooting last month set off a massive manhunt was shot twice with his own weapon, and there were signs of a struggle at the scene, the lead investigator said Thursday in releasing what he called carefully vetted details.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/30162993/commander-signs-of-struggle-in-illinois-officer-shooting

Fox Lake Investigators: Signs of struggle in shooting of Lt. Gliniewicz

http://www.wrex.com/story/30163037/...igns-of-struggle-in-shooting-of-lt-gliniewicz

Lake County Major Crimes Task Force Commander George Filenko also says there was evidence of a struggle at the scene.
http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Officer-Shot-in-Fox-Lake-Manhunt-Underway-Police-323669621.html

bbm

 

[katydid23]

If there was a struggle for the gun. Then his hand should have bruises or scratches or a perps touch dna. A officer will fight to make sure that you don't get his gun. So his hands would have been trying to hold on to the gun. Which means a perp would have to wrestle with LT hand to let go of the gun. Which means that LT hand should have scratches or bruises or a persons dna on it. Jmo

UNLESS the perp put a gun to the back of the cops head and demanded he hand over the service weapon ?

 

[cady]

I disagree. I think there is 'clear' evidence that there might have been a struggle. But it could have been staged, therefore it is not definitive. That is why suicide is still on the table, imo.

Maybe. But why did we hear this a month after the fact? Rudd found no physical evidence from the autopsy report of struggle, but he was not at the crime scene to witness the ground evidence. He also had no communication with the task force until over a week ago, so it's doubtful that he was aware of struggle evidence before that meeting. Whatever he learned at the meeting apparently is not enough for him to rule out suicide. JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

Well..think of the LT as a witness to this crime who is speaking to us after the fact. What has he told us? What has his body told us?

He tells us that he saw 3 men, 2 white 1 black. Just because we can't find the 3 men, does that disprove his statement?

Given the immediate response and the extent of the manhunt. . . the report of the three suspects is very dubious.

Could there be a logical explanation why we haven't found the 3? Answer: They got away somehow.

That is what investigations are for and I think those investigations are all coming up empty.

He tells they went into the swamp. Just because there are no footprints, doesn't mean they weren't there. Answer: it's a marshy area and footprints disappear.

Not entirely. You see, especially in a marshy area the soil has differing consistencies. Some areas are more solid than others some more muddy than others. For your theory to be correct, all three suspects had to escape using ONLY the areas that their footprints (and scents) would / could "disappear" before they could be found.

His body tells us it was shot twice. Logic would dictate that suicide would include only one shot. Answer: The first shot would have put him off balance and thus make the 2nd shot easier to accomplish by a killer.

That's one answer (assuming the suspects were there and escaped as you said above.)

Another explanation is that the Lt. shot himself twice - while trying to FAKE an assault on himself. The shots are much more tolerable and maybe even more believable if he decidedly chose odd angles so as to not take the full impact. And it is just as possible that the 2nd shot missed the vest and killed the officer unintentionally.

The scene tells us there is unknown DNA. So there could have been several people there. Answer: possible unknown persons at scene of the crime.

Persons who escaped by taking a way out that completely made their footprints 'disappear.'

 

[DexterMorgan]

Was the vest used as a muzzle effect to block sound if this was a suicide. His partners were there 4 minutes after the okay for backup. But they seen nor heard nothing if I am not mistaken. So did LT make sure the shots were fired close to his vest to help eliminate sound from others in the area?

 

[Elley Mae]

Maybe. But why did we hear this a month after the fact? Rudd found no physical evidence from the autopsy report of struggle, but he was not at the crime scene to witness the ground evidence. He also had no communication with the task force until over a week ago, so it's doubtful that he was aware of struggle evidence before that meeting. Whatever he learned at the meeting apparently is not enough for him to rule out suicide. JMO

bbm, It's being said & reported that the signs of a struggle were at the scene, even if his uniform is torn /riped and stained with grass/dirt that would not always lead the any body trauma. And iirc Dr Rudd has not been able to view that part of the evidence, I think that was part of why he said what he said about not being able to say the mod with out his uniform to tell the rest of the story. Wonder why they (le) don't want him to have that? jmo idk

 

[Chuz Life]

If there was a struggle for the gun. Then his hand should have bruises or scratches or a perps touch dna. A officer will fight to make sure that you don't get his gun. So his hands would have been trying to hold on to the gun. Which means a perp would have to wrestle with LT hand to let go of the gun. Which means that LT hand should have scratches or bruises or a persons dna on it. Jmo

Exactly.

 

[Chuz Life]

bbm

Homicide Investigation Ongoing Into Death of Fox Lake Police Officer After Evidence Shows Signs of Struggle

http://www.newsweek.com/homicide-in...olice-officer-after-evidence-378649?piano_d=1

Illinois cop was killed with own gun amid 'indications' of a struggle, investigators say

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/02/unidentified-dna-samples-found-where-illinois-officer-died/

The Illinois police officer whose fatal shooting last month set off a massive manhunt was shot twice with his own weapon, and there were signs of a struggle at the scene, the lead investigator said Thursday in releasing what he called carefully vetted details.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/30162993/commander-signs-of-struggle-in-illinois-officer-shooting

Fox Lake Investigators: Signs of struggle in shooting of Lt. Gliniewicz

http://www.wrex.com/story/30163037/...igns-of-struggle-in-shooting-of-lt-gliniewicz

Lake County Major Crimes Task Force Commander George Filenko also says there was evidence of a struggle at the scene.
http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Officer-Shot-in-Fox-Lake-Manhunt-Underway-Police-323669621.html

bbm

Okay, so, investigators are still keeping 'suicide' on the table. . .

Because, why?

 

[DexterMorgan]

UNLESS the perp put a gun to the back of the cops head and demanded he hand over the service weapon ?

Agree. But if a perp has a gun at his head already? Then why take his (LT ) gun; To kill him with it. Plus leave it behind? Why not just shoot him with the gun you have to his head?

Also. Most criminals who assassinate cops; Usually shoot them in the head while they are up close and personal. They tend to make sure the cop is dead. They rarely will be happy with a chest shot from the side of the vest. They would have secured one more close up just to make sure. Jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

Okay, so, investigators are still keeping 'suicide' on the table. . .

Because, why?

Is it the investigators keeping it there or is that the coroners call? without the officers uniform and what was on his person the coroner can't say. jmo idk

 

[Tillicum]

Reportedly, part of his conversation with the Mayor, the day before,was about that area, and possible squatters and or drug dealing, vandalism, etc. which he volunteered to check out......presumably, on a regular basis. But I don't see where that would require him to go there, unbeknownst to his boss and colleagues, before checking in to work at roll call. The early hour seems way too early for druggies, but I suppose it could be seen as a good time to find squatters. I mean, really, instead of playing James Bond, how about a nice big sign that says something like "this area is patrolled, trespassers will be prosecuted". This secrecy is beyond weird!!!! JMO................better yet, how about surveillance cameras, surely they would show what activity was going on there at odd hours.

I'm posting this link with the vid of the Precision Chrome guy again. He said they patrol there at least once a day, for sure, always. Who patrolled there? CG? Another officer? Was this CG's first time patrolling there after the meeting with the mayor? I watched this several times because I always feel there's a clue in it somewhere, but IDK what it could be. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[cady]

It is true that we do not know what this evidence of struggle is. For a full month, every news agency was reporting that there were no signs of struggle. That changed yesterday. I find it hard to believe that if his uniform was scuffed up, dirty and torn, that LE would not mention something about that in their previous pressers. I think that what they are referring to is trampled ground. But the ground in the close vicinity of the body would have been trampled by any and all of the persons who inspected the body and those who removed it from the scene. So, are they talking about a struggle at a different area? JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

Okay, so, investigators are still keeping 'suicide' on the table. . .

Because, why?

Is it the investigators keeping it there or is that the coroners call? without the officers uniform and what was on his person the coroner can't say. jmo idk

"Filenko emphasized the investigation was "strictly" being conducted as a homicide probe, though he acknowledged detectives weren't ruling anything out, including the possibility of suicide."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fox-lak...s-joseph-gliniewicz-unidentified-dna-samples/

 

[DexterMorgan]

Once a criminal decides to kill a cop while up close and alone in a isolated area with no recording. They usually try to make sure 100% that the cop is dead before fleeing. Especially since the cop has seen them. So they usually will do a head shot or multiple up close shots before fleeing. So that casing 100 ft away; Would have been followed with 2 or 3 up and close personal shots.

So I doubt a criminal would chase him 100 ft just to only shoot him once. Especially since he knew that he wasn't hurt after the first hit. Jmo

 

[cady]

They will never have to prove anything until they have a suspect and ultimately, a defendant.... JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

I listen to a scanner most days in my small town. The way I hear it, lol the dispatchers are in control of the officer's, they are assigned to certain areas (jurisdictions) in their county/city/town. Depending on the size and the population like here there is alot< not a word, of area to cover for these officers, anyway, dispatch does not let alot of time go by in between communications with officers.Dispatch knew Joe was there and they know more then what we know. Dispatch is also in contact with them by cell phone, some stuff can't be repeated on air, ears like mine listening. Like I know that every time I hear a call out for officer 123 I know that I will first hear his partner fido in the back seat, barking his head off. Like all morning I hear dispatch sending officers to get a stray dog and every time its on a different street, I know it's the same dog. Folks around will shoot strays so we don't see many. So I think LE still knows more then will know and will probably release more in the days and weeks to come. jmo idk

 

[Elley Mae]

"Filenko emphasized the investigation was "strictly" being conducted as a homicide probe, though he acknowledged detectives weren't ruling anything out, including the possibility of suicide."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fox-lak...s-joseph-gliniewicz-unidentified-dna-samples/

Well I see he said it, but I think he is wrong about a detective calling cause of death. He should probably walk that back. jmo idk