IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[katydid23]

Because the truth matters.

But if it is not totally provable then who knows it is the truth?

 

[vestigare]

I think Rudd is far more likely to list the death as Accidental than Undetermined if he truly thinks it is suicide.

The reason being is Accidental leaves room for error, it also doesn't have the social or political stigma attached to it. He also will not have to do viciously defend himself against those who might not understand the burden of proof.

 

[bluesneakers]

But if it is not totally provable then who knows it is the truth?

We don't, but he might, or maybe he could if he had all the information he needs.

 

[cady]

But if it is not totally provable then who knows it is the truth?

Nothing is totally provable in this crazy world. Science is our best bet, not blind faith. JMO

 

[vestigare]

It still sounds like reasonable doubt exists. Why saddle his 4 sons with a suicide if it is not 100% certain. Why not just call it 'undetermined' and move on?

Because a coroner doesn't operate on reasonable doubt. He operates on evidence and logic. If it quacks like a duck.... and you haven't provided him evidence it is a monkey then he will list it a duck.

 

[bluesneakers]

Nothing is totally provable in this crazy world. Science is our best bet, not blind faith. JMO

But he's obligated, imo, to get as close to the truth as he can.

 

[katydid23]

Nothing is totally provable in this crazy world. Science is our best bet, not blind faith. JMO

True. But even with science, sometimes it is 'undetermined' what actually happened. Sometimes all they can determine is it could have been X or it could have been Y. If so, you have to accept that and move on.

 

[bluesneakers]

Three pieces of evidence point to suicide and one to who-knows what does not equal undeteremined. The undetermined would come from several DNA samples from the same person being oj him. A partial print that might have gotten on the gun another way but can't be excluded.

A scent trail not connected to anything and a call from the person who is killed is not persuasive evidence of homicide. Not in light of everything else pointing to suicide.I

What pieces do we not have that you would consider also pointing to suicide? Anything that might be out there, just not discovered yet? I don't mean anything obvious like a note.

 

[katydid23]

Because a coroner doesn't operate on reasonable doubt. He operates on evidence and logic. If it quacks like a duck.... and you haven't provided him evidence it is a monkey then he will list it a duck.

Which is why so many of them have to resort to the label 'undetermined' if they have a lack of evidence to rely upon.

 

[cady]

But he's obligated, imo, to get as close to the truth as he can.

YES!! PALEEZE no politics, Dr. Rudd, just call it as you see it. New evidence can always undo it, but it had better be good. JMO

 

[vestigare]

They should have completed his victimology by now.
Did he have unusual searches on his computer?
Were they having financial problems?
Did he have a recent medical?
What did his GPS show?
Cell records?
What did he discuss with the mayor?

 

[Tillicum]

They should have completed his victimology by now.
Did he have unusual searches on his computer?
Were they having financial problems?
Did he have a recent medical?
What did his GPS show?
Cell records?
What did he discuss with the mayor?

Did he have any enemies?

Investigators are following standard practice, working up a "victimology" on Lieutenant Gliniwicz. They're constructing a detailed timeline of his life. They've interviewed his wife and kids. They're also reviewing his online history and tracking down any known enemies.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/sons-tattoo-honors-fox-lake-police-lt-joe-gliniewicz/987870/

 

[vestigare]

What pieces do we not have that you would consider also pointing to suicide? Anything that might be out there, just not discovered yet? I don't mean anything obvious like a note.

Sometimes a cornoer doesn't feel comfortable rimg suicide without some proof of intent or motive. I think there are even a few jurisdictions that require it which is crazy imo.

In that case without a note you need computer searches, medical proof of illness or psych treatment. I think in this case there might have been some of that to find. Interesting Joe's social media.was scrubbed about two weeks ago....

 

[cady]

Which is why so many of them have to resort to the label 'undetermined' if they have a lack of evidence to rely upon.

well, maybe Jodi Arias really was insane...just not found to be. Why should we kill (anyone,really) but why on earth would anyone support and cheer a State on to give a possibly insane person the death penalty? I observed that . JMO

 

[Cubby]

I think Rudd is far more likely to list the death as Accidental than Undetermined if he truly thinks it is suicide.

The reason being is Accidental leaves room for error, it also doesn't have the social or political stigma attached to it. He also will not have to do viciously defend himself against those who might not understand the burden of proof.

How does someone with the police and military experience CG had accidently shoot themselves twice?

 

[bluesneakers]

How does someone with the police and military experience CG had accidently shoot themselves twice?

So he intentionally shot him self twice without intending to kill himself, so the death was accidental? Could he have screwed up that badly if he was alone?

 

[vestigare]

How does someone with the police and military experience CG had accidently shoot themselves twice?

I think he could claim that he doesn't know.enough to conclude the shots were done on purpose but they don't appear to be done by someone else. So that would lead to accidental.

It would be a stretch imo but a lot of coroners really hate to determine suicide.

I just hope if Rudd really thinks suicide and clearly thought it was viable from the start he won't play around and will just call it.

 

[vestigare]

How does someone with the police and military experience CG had accidently shoot themselves twice?

I think that is a question his wife should really think about too. How did someone come to shoot themselves twice. She thinks a person committing suicide wouldn't. But unless another person pulled the trigger he did shoot himself twice. So why?

I have my theory.

 

[looking4OPH]

“.... The one that performed the autopsy came and stood on my deck and told me everything.”

Rudd gets lambasted for listing all the potential CODs in MSM and endangering the case (and not actually saying it was suicide), yet it's ok for Montez to discuss the autopsy with the family? :gaah:

 

[vestigare]

Rudd gets lambasted for listing all the potential CODs in MSM and endangering the case (and not actually saying it was suicide), yet it's ok for Montez to discuss the autopsy with the family? :gaah:

And Rudd had the authority to say what he said and much more.
It is highly unorthodox for someone to go to the person's house and discuss the autopsy. Especially a person who is only on contract with coroner's office and when the coroner and no deputy corner appears to have been involved. If they wanted an independent autopsy they had that right but this was very unorthodox.