IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[longlonglake]

Thanks.



This does not answer the question of why 'suicide' is still on the table if the investigators reasonably believe there actually was a struggle and the three suspects were actually real and involved.

If the investigators TRULY believed that there is evidence of a struggle and the suspects were actually there, there would be no talk of a possible suicide at all.

Would there?



See above.

Also, one source I read said that of the five samples of dna tested, only one of them were male. That made me contemplate the possibility that the Lt. may have had one or more lady friends. And that lead to even further speculations about other possible motives for suicide. After all his family has already been through, I would very much hate for that to be the case.

I was thinking about the lady friend idea. What if he was meeting one there; she asked to "see" his gun? Maybe she was mad about something and shot him? (Keep in mind I'm an amateur, and probably sound like Randy Disher at times. Remember the TV show MONK?) Who else could get so close to him and catch him off guard but someone he knew and didn't fear? Maybe he made the radio call after the vest shot, which would account for why his voice sounded so hoarse. Maybe he made up the 3 suspects to deflect any suspicion of a woman being there? Maybe she was still pointing the gun at him, so he realized he might be killed and didn't wish to scandalize his family?

 

[liz b.]

Not out of the realm of possibilities, but by whom? Not the Mayor....they were buddies. If it was an inside job, the personal sighting by CG of the 3 perps was false. JMO

Set up by whom ? IDK, but when I first heard the news of this shooting, some instinct made me think it was not at all what it seemed to be. And I also thought right away that it would become a well followed case here on WS...

I wonder if this LEO had a friend in the area that he might have decided to meet that morning ? And things went sideways from there ?

 

[katydid23]

Agree. But if a perp has a gun at his head already? Then why take his (LT ) gun; To kill him with it. Plus leave it behind? Why not just shoot him with the gun you have to his head?

Also. Most criminals who assassinate cops; Usually shoot them in the head while they are up close and personal. They tend to make sure the cop is dead. They rarely will be happy with a chest shot from the side of the vest. They would have secured one more close up just to make sure. Jmo

Maybe his own gun was a toy gun/unloaded/jammed/ or something. Maybe he did not want to use his own gun but preferred to use the cop's gun so it could not be tied back to him?

Maybe they began scuffling and a shot to the vest was all he could manage?

 

[cady]

As long as LE believes that they have evidence of a homicide, I understand their pursuit of it. But the operative word is BELIEVE. If their only goal is to get to the truth, so be it. But if they are operating with an additional agenda, they need to be called out on it, and exposed. JMO

 

[cady]

Set up by whom ? IDK, but when I first heard the news of this shooting, some instinct made me think it was not at all what it seemed to be. And I also thought right away that it would become a well followed case here on WS...

I wonder if this LEO had a friend in the area that he might have decided to meet that morning ? And things went sideways from there ?

I've given some thought to that, but not that it was a friend, rather, someone who threatened to expose him about something, and actually forced him to commit suicide. But that sounds like it's right out of a work of fiction..... JMO

 

[longlonglake]

A friend, male or female.

 

[liz b.]

A friend, male or female.

Yes. A friend of some type...

 

[liz b.]

I've given some thought to that, but not that it was a friend, rather, someone who threatened to expose him about something, and actually forced him to commit suicide. But that sounds like it's right out of a work of fiction..... JMO

I didn't think of this angle. Leaning towards it being a homicide. And a probable cover up.

 

[TheDuchess]

I disagree. I think there is 'clear' evidence that there might have been a struggle. But it could have been staged, therefore it is not definitive. That is why suicide is still on the table, imo.

Great minds think alike! LOL!

 

[TheDuchess]

Given the immediate response and the extent of the manhunt. . . the report of the three suspects is very dubious.



That is what investigations are for and I think those investigations are all coming up empty.



Not entirely. You see, especially in a marshy area the soil has differing consistencies. Some areas are more solid than others some more muddy than others. For your theory to be correct, all three suspects had to escape using ONLY the areas that their footprints (and scents) would / could "disappear" before they could be found.



That's one answer (assuming the suspects were there and escaped as you said above.)

Another explanation is that the Lt. shot himself twice - while trying to FAKE an assault on himself. The shots are much more tolerable and maybe even more believable if he decidedly chose odd angles so as to not take the full impact. And it is just as possible that the 2nd shot missed the vest and killed the officer unintentionally.



Persons who escaped by taking a way out that completely made their footprints 'disappear.'

Thanks for all the great answers and I wish I knew how to quote like you do. But anyway, I still am seeing all of your arguments, while all well and good, simply giving conjecture and speculation against the evidence that we do have. The only evidence we do have points to a homicide. The only thing that points away from a homicide is the lack of other evidence, suspects, etc... I need to be pretty darned sure this is a suicide before they call it. JMO.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Well there could be a million reasons why he could have been there for 20 minutes, one of which was explained by Filenko. There had been complaints of vandalism, vagrancy, drug use, etc...and he took it upon himself to patrol the area. Perhaps he was walking around the area to check things out. He wore his radio on his vest (I'm glad he confirmed that) and could have actually been anywhere in that area when he saw the 3 men. He also could have been there to walk the trail for exercise, decided to have his breakfast in peace, meditate, etc... I'd be interested to know if he called anyone during that time. I'd also like to know what his regular routine was, etc...i.e. victomology type of stuff.

The fact that info about his routine, especially during the early morning of September 1, has not been revealed continues to bother me.

I've wondered if something or someone else cluttered his life at some point. Not many people are 100 percent perfect in every area of their life even when their public life appears to be near perfect. Several famous people come to mind.

If evidence of an affair or something peculiar was discovered, I doubt the investigation would reveal the info at this point in the investigation, just because it may or may not have anything to do with his death. If there is anything to tell, I hope it isn't earth shattering.

 

[Cubby]

Perhaps CG was set up ?

That would mean someone would have to know he would be on the east end of Honing prior to the shooting. Who knew he would be there?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm curious to know what information might be forthcoming regarding additional ballistics. We already know he was shot with his own gun at close range.....

I can't think of what else they are waiting on regarding ballistics.

The science evidence pertaining to casing trajectory evidence.
This, I read, isn't ballistics but goes beyond to help determine the distance from the target the shooter was when the shot was fired.

 

[Cubby]

Well..think of the LT as a witness to this crime who is speaking to us after the fact. What has he told us? What has his body told us?

He tells us that he saw 3 men, 2 white 1 black. Just because we can't find the 3 men, does that disprove his statement? Could there be a logical explanation why we haven't found the 3? Answer: They got away somehow.
He tells they went into the swamp. Just because there are no footprints, doesn't mean they weren't there. Answer: it's a marshy area and footprints disappear.
His body tells us it was shot twice. Logic would dictate that suicide would include only one shot. Answer: The first shot would have put him off balance and thus make the 2nd shot easier to accomplish by a killer.
The scene tells us there is unknown DNA. So their could have been several people there. Answer: possible unknown persons at scene of the crime.
This all goes along with Filenko's PC, in case I didn't make it obvious enough. But Filenko is trying to tell us the LT's story.
So in other words, given none of this other evidence, suicide theory would be a simple conclusion. No call, no DNA, no evidence of a struggle, only one shot, etc...but since we have all of those things lined up telling one story, in my opinion, it needs to be disproven that these things are as they would seem.

Now let's think about what all of that evidence may have meant if the LT was still alive when they reached him. Would you be inclined to believe what he is telling you? He is a 30 year veteran, a family man, a good cop, a US veteran, a pillar of the community, etc...would you even doubt his story for an instant, at first blush? Probably not. So it stands to reason that they are investigating this as a homicide based on the story that was presented to them by their trusted officer. The evidence will either match up to his story or not. So far, many of the things we know actually do match up to his story. Unknown DNA. Evidence of a struggle. 2 shots. The radio call. Etc... So in order to change the investigation to a suicide investigation, in my opinion, there needs to be specific evidence pointing back in that direction. At this time, there appears to be no direct evidence pointing back that way that isn't speculation. To me, the lack of evidence is not evidence. The lack of 3 suspects is not evidence.

So what is known at this time all points to homicide. So I ask, what evidence do we have at this time, that points directly to suicide?

I

I wasn't trying to be snarky when I asked, I was genuily interested in thinking maybe you could point out something I missed. I'm interpreting the evidence as discrediting the possibilty this is a homicide.

 

[Cubby]

Thanks.



This does not answer the question of why 'suicide' is still on the table if the investigators reasonably believe there actually was a struggle and the three suspects were actually real and involved.

If the investigators TRULY believed that there is evidence of a struggle and the suspects were actually there, there would be no talk of a possible suicide at all.

Would there?



See above.

Also, one source I read said that of the five samples of dna tested, only one of them were male. That made me contemplate the possibility that the Lt. may have had one or more lady friends. And that lead to even further speculations about other possible motives for suicide. After all his family has already been through, I would very much hate for that to be the case.

It has not been stated the other dna is female. We're seen so many gend er unknown in the unidentified area of ws I was under the impression gender was established for just one of the dna samples.

 

[Keefer]

If there was a struggle for the gun. Then his hand should have bruises or scratches or a perps touch dna. A officer will fight to make sure that you don't get his gun. So his hands would have been trying to hold on to the gun. Which means a perp would have to wrestle with LT hand to let go of the gun. Which means that LT hand should have scratches or bruises or a persons dna on it. Jmo

This is not necessarily true. The perp may have been wearing gloves, was it chilly that morning? As far as bruising and scratching it would depend. There are several ways to disarm someone holding a handgun, from what you see in films and TV to some very simple/ practical methods. If joe was partially incapacitated it would of course have made it easier for the perp. On the other hand joe was probably proficient at handgun retention methods commonly used by police.

 

[Cubby]

bbm, It's being said & reported that the signs of a struggle were at the scene, even if his uniform is torn /riped and stained with grass/dirt that would not always lead the any body trauma. And iirc Dr Rudd has not been able to view that part of the evidence, I think that was part of why he said what he said about not being able to say the mod with out his uniform to tell the rest of the story. Wonder why they (le) don't want him to have that? jmo idk

I don't recall Dr. Rudd saying he needed the uniform. Do you have a link for that?

 

[DexterMorgan]

This is not necessarily true. The perp may have been wearing gloves, was it chilly that morning? As far as bruising and scratching it would depend. There are several ways to disarm someone holding a handgun, from what you see in films and TV to some very simple/ practical methods. If joe was partially incapacitated it would of course have made it easier for the perp. On the other hand joe was probably proficient at handgun retention methods commonly used by police.

Sorry. A perp who is just hanging around is not wearing gloves on a summer morning.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Maybe someone's husband arrived on the scene and killed CJG because he found out he was fooling around with his wife.
Maybe CJG was confronted by someone who had some "goods" on him and threatened to reveal or out him for some reason.

Not my own original thought but one I read in comments somewhere else - why did Mrs. G make a public statement that her husband came home to her every night?
The more I thought about it, the comment sounded a little off under the circumstances.
Isn't that what we expect our husbands to do?

 

[Cubby]

Maybe someone's husband arrived on the scene and killed CJG because he found out he was fooling around with his wife.
Maybe CJG was confronted by someone who had some "goods" on him and threatened to reveal or out him for some reason.

RSBM. With either of the two scenarios you mention how does a radio call about 3 suspects fit in?