IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[Keefer]

Again, according to LE (Filenko) the pepper spray was later found and accounted for.

Well, it could have been used by the perps and then left there. Why take the spray, it could only connect them to the crime if they were caught carrying it.

 

[Keefer]

You mean people are already upset before even knowing what caused the LTs death?

Yeah, and I wonder if these folks are upset with all the money the federal government wastes too? Some folks are easily riled up, you just have to know what button to push.

 

[Cubby]

You mean people are already upset before even knowing what caused the LTs death?

Please note the use of the word IF in my post. I said, IF this turns out to be a suicide.

 

[vestigare]

Yeah, and I wonder if these folks are upset with all the money the federal government wastes too? Some folks are easily riled up, you just have to know what button to push.

You might want to revisit post #576 on the third thread.

This discussion isn't about what others feel about federal waste nor is it about personalizing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Please note the use of the word IF in my post. I said, IF this turns out to be a suicide.

I did see that Cubby but the first of your post says 'I think what people are upset about' Your post notates 'at the present time". That is why I asked you what I did. I was confused how anyone could be upset now when we don't even know who caused the LTs death. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.

I think what people are upset about is the cost of the manhunt if this does turn out to be suicide.

BTW, can you tell me who these people are?

Why would they be upset with law enforcement for the manhunt? The LT told the dispatcher that he was following three males. If it turns out to be suicide, which I highly doubt, then there is no one to blame but the dead man.

All police agencies budget for things like this so I don't see a reason for anyone to be upset about it. Did LE say the taxpayers were going to have to pay above and beyond what is already allocated in budgets every year to cover things like this should they arise?

IMO

 

[cady]

JMO Most of the massive manhunts that I have heard of were assembled to look for specific people. Usually, they are escapees, or have been identified by witnesses to a crime. In this case, the only witness is deceased after having reported no particular crime in progress, just suspicion that two white males and one black male were who he was pursuing toward the "swamp". So, a massive manhunt took to the whole town, the skies, the FEDS (??) to locate any white guy or any black guy, but preferred that they would find 2white guys and a black guy still together, somewhere. As I said, if the community isn't bothered by that, OK. But if I lived there, I would be outraged. Glad that I do not. JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

JMO Most of the massive manhunts that I have heard of were assembled to look for specific people. Usually, they are escapees, or have been identified by witnesses to a crime. In this case, the only witness is deceased after having reported no particular crime in progress, just suspicion that two white males and one black male were who he was pursuing toward the "swamp". So, a massive manhunt took to the whole town, the skies, the FEDS (??) to locate any white guy or any black guy, but preferred that they would find 2white guys and a black guy still together, somewhere. As I said, if the community isn't bothered by that, OK. But if I lived there, I would be outraged. Glad that I do not. JMO

Exactly, cady. And it's more than only money. IF this really was a suicide, then innocent people who matched that vague description were put at risk who might have been in the area. Fellow officers caught up in the high adrenaline initial search could have over-reacted to almost any situation in a way that could have resulted in injuries or death. etc.

 

[Chuz Life]

Nope, just the news a month after the fact that investigators have "evidence" of a struggle at the crime scene. Details, not forthcoming......JMO

"Evidence" that the LT could very well have caused, staged or faked himself, if this really was a suicide being staged to look like an assault / murder.

 

[Cubby]

I did see that Cubby but the first of your post says 'I think what people are upset about' Your post notates 'at the present time". That is why I asked you what I did. I was confused how anyone could be upset now when we don't even know who caused the LTs death. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.

I think what people are upset about is the cost of the manhunt if this does turn out to be suicide.

BTW, can you tell me who these people are?

Why would they be upset with law enforcement for the manhunt? The LT told the dispatcher that he was following three males. If it turns out to be suicide, which I highly doubt, then there is no one to blame but the dead man.

All police agencies budget for things like this so I don't see a reason for anyone to be upset about it. Did LE say the taxpayers were going to have to pay above and beyond what is already allocated in budgets every year to cover things like this should they arise?

IMO

Sorry I wasn't more clear. The citizens of Lake County and IL who will end up paying for this if it does turn out to be suicide. I do not blame anyone but the victim IF he lied. And honestly, thus far, I do not see any evidence this is not a suicide. People I know IRL are upset that someone would lie about a potential crime and then take their life........ IF it turns out to be a suicide, then that is a purposeful way to not only waste money but commit fraud with regards to the benefits for his family. Survivor benefits for those killed in the line of duty are just for that. Legitimate deaths in the line of duty. Faking it or trying to cover up a suicide is completely disrespectful to those who legitimately died in the line of duty. It's a slap in the face of every family member who has ever lost a love one in the line of duty.

I just happen to see the more evidence released, the more it confirms this will eventually be ruled a suicide.

 

[bluesneakers]

Sorry I wasn't more clear. The citizens of Lake County and IL who will end up paying for this if it does turn out to be suicide. I do not blame anyone but the victim IF he lied. And honestly, thus far, I do not see any evidence this is not a suicide. People I know IRL are upset that someone would lie about a potential crime and then take their life........ IF it turns out to be a suicide, then that is a purposeful way to not only waste money but commit fraud with regards to the benefits for his family. Survivor benefits for those killed in the line of duty are just for that. Legitimate deaths in the line of duty. Faking it or trying to cover up a suicide is completely disrespectful to those who legitimately died in the line of duty. It's a slap in the face of every family member who has ever lost a love one in the line of duty.

I just happen to see the more evidence released, the more it confirms this will eventually be ruled a suicide.

Oh, the irony if this was a suicide covered up as an ambush just so he could go out as a hero and make his family rich.

JMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

JMO Most of the massive manhunts that I have heard of were assembled to look for specific people. Usually, they are escapees, or have been identified by witnesses to a crime. In this case, the only witness is deceased after having reported no particular crime in progress, just suspicion that two white males and one black male were who he was pursuing toward the "swamp". So, a massive manhunt took to the whole town, the skies, the FEDS (??) to locate any white guy or any black guy, but preferred that they would find 2white guys and a black guy still together, somewhere. As I said, if the community isn't bothered by that, OK. But if I lived there, I would be outraged. Glad that I do not. JMO

When someone has been killed the profile of the suspect/s at the time often aren't specific and are even unknown completely. Not every murder that happens has a living eye witness. In fact most don't. They do their evil deed when they know no one is around to see it happen.

What they usually do is bring the scent dogs in to see if they can trail the unknown suspect/s even if the gender/race is unknown. Didn't they follow their scent for awhile? Its easy to lose a scent though if the suspect/s get into a vehicle with someone or their own they may have had parked a far ways away.

I remember when the Greone family were brutally murdered and the two children kidnapped. LE had no clue what the suspect looked like. They had one of the bloodiest crime scenes since he bludgeoned three people to death with a hammer yet week after week the suspect remained unknown to LE. Even seven weeks later they still did not know it was the serial pedophile murderer Joseph E. Duncan and only knew it was him once he brought Shasta back to her own hometown after murdering her little brother, Dylan.

Many agencies don't even have as much information to go on as the LT gave them in this case. And him saying he saw three suspicious males is quite common terminology for LE when asking for backup assistance. There was need for him to carry on a long conversation with the dispatcher when he fully expected police backup to be there at the scene as quickly as they could arrive to assist him.

I wonder if drug dealings were going on in those woods?

Oh, for some reason I thought you personally lived in this community. Thank for clearing that up Cady.

I still don't understand why this community is suppose to be upset because of the manhunt.

 

[vestigare]

Regardless of whether this is suicide, homicide, aliens, whatever...people were outraged and continue to be over the blatantly hypocritical and entitlement mentality that was displayed by this over the top manhunt that would never in a million years have been afforded to the death of just an ordinary town folk.

It was and continues to be a complete misappropriation of funds by those who have the ability to manipulate budgets and demand taxes.

And it is most likely the huge manhunt did nothing but hurt the investigation if this was homicide so they not only used huge amounts of money they should not have but they screwed an investigation because of it.

 

[vestigare]

Nope, just the news a month after the fact that investigators have "evidence" of a struggle at the crime scene. Details, not forthcoming......JMO

Same old nothing while they hope we aren't smart enough to notice.

 

[vestigare]

Just think of all the other cases involving not only Fox Lake but also Lake County and various Federal agencies that will now be moved further down the line because they will not have the time, money or manpower to do ballistics, CODIS, swabbing, dna matching, blood splattering tests, K9 tracking, air searches, house to house searches, video collection, etc because they used so much of it on one death of one man.

There are cases that have been waiting years for dna matching or ballistic testing.

 

[Cubby]

When someone has been killed the profile of the suspect/s at the time often aren't specific and are even unknown completely. Not every murder that happens has a living eye witness. In fact most don't. They do their evil deed when they know no one is around to see it happen.

What they usually do is bring the scent dogs in to see if they can trail the unknown suspect/s even if the gender/race is unknown. Didn't they follow their scent for awhile? Its easy to lose a scent though if the suspect/s get into a vehicle with someone or their own they may have had parked a far ways away.

I remember when the Greone family were brutally murdered and the two children kidnapped. LE had no clue what the suspect looked like. They had one of the bloodiest crime scenes since he bludgeoned three people to death with a hammer yet week after week the suspect remained unknown to LE. Even seven weeks later they still did not know it was the serial pedophile murderer Joseph E. Duncan and only knew it was him once he brought Shasta back to her own hometown after murdering her little brother, Dylan.

Many agencies don't even have as much information to go on as the LT gave them in this case. And him saying he saw three suspicious males is quite common terminology for LE when asking for backup assistance. There was need for him to carry on a long conversation with the dispatcher when he fully expected police backup to be there at the scene as quickly as they could arrive to assist him.

I wonder if drug dealings were going on in those woods?

Oh, for some reason I thought you personally lived in this community. Thank for clearing that up Cady.

I still don't understand why this community is suppose to be upset because of the manhunt.

In the Groene family case there was clear evidence of a murder immediately. More than a month later the authorities are still struggling to find anything to indicate this is a murder other than the radio call. Not one iota of evidence has been found to point away from this being a potential suicide. In so many words, Rudd was saying give me something, anything, to consider this a murder.

 

[Chuz Life]

I don't think they would have radioed stating the pepper spray was deployed. And again, maybe it was.....maybe that is part of the evidence they have to support a struggle.

Again, according to LE (Filenko) the pepper spray was later found and accounted for.

Well, it could have been used by the perps and then left there. Why take the spray, it could only connect them to the crime if they were caught carrying it.

If the pepper spray was taken and then used by one or more of the alleged perps, the arriving officers probably wouldn't even need a K9 to follow their trail. It's that strong an odor.

More importantly, I can't imagine Le investigators keeping suicide on their list of considerations and prolonging or depriving the Lt's family of his benefits. . . if they have that kind of evidence to show that there was not only a struggle but also the use of his pepper spray to aid their escape.

Also, wouldn't their finger prints and dna be found on the canister?

 

[vestigare]

Google it. There are many instances where 400 leo didn't show up after a cop was killed.

And assuming every single case of a cop's death resulted in 400 leo turning out that imo is not acceptable because we do not have unlimited resources and they do not get to decide where those resources are spent.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In the Groene family case there was clear evidence of a murder immediately. More than a month later the authorities are still struggling to find anything to indicate this is a murder other than the radio call. Not one iota of evidence has been found to point away from this being a potential suicide. In so many words, Rudd was saying give me something, anything, to consider this a murder.

I am not sure that is true. I believe LE did say they met with Rudd and the meeting went well.

It takes time to get forensic evidence back.

LE said there was a struggle at the scene. I believe them.

LE said the trackers tracked the scent of the suspect/s 1/4 mile away from the scene iirc.

LE said there is unknown DNA found at the scene. I believe them.

Sometimes justice doesn't move lightening fast but it does come just like it will come for the LT in due time.

And we don't know all the evidence they have which is common.

IMO

 

[cady]

JMO The nationwide manhunt in the Greone (sp?) case was for the missing children.
In this
case, there are pages upon pages of discussion about the scent trail, the dog, (out of around 50 dogs) the handler, and the reason for aborting the mission. (Thread 3, not sure).
CG did not wait for back-up assistance.
I don't personally care if the community is upset or not, that is their prerogative....I simply said that I WOULD BE.
Also, having been on foot at the scene for 20 minutes prior to his dispatch call, there didn't seem to be an immediate threat, so he could have waited another 2 minutes for back-up to arrive. JMO

 

[Cubby]

Google it. There are many instances where 400 leo didn't show up after a cop was killed.

And assuming every single case of a cop's death resulted in 400 leo turning out that imo is not acceptable because we do not have unlimited resources and they do not get to decide where those resources are spent.

I didn't follow it closely, but were there even 400 LEO involved involved in the manhunt for the two NY prison escapee's?