IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[Walker007]

It was reported by LE that the Lt.s glasses were found "intact" and on the scene. I think that for as much as they want this to be anything other than a suicide - if the glasses were found in any condition that might have indicated that there was a struggle? They would have been eager to report it as such.

I too would like to know the details about where they were actually found but it doesn't look (to me) like the location and condition of the Lt's glasses has shed any new light on the case.

I am jumping ahead on my notes I am compiling. But let's talk about falling forward. If he was shot in close range in the vest after having his weapon somehow seized from him,if he had fallen and tripped or was fending off, it would be a natural progression to move forward to either get up or defend rather than backward in which a person could have been at this point standing over him, to shoot pointed downward, if the LT was in already crouched position or on his hands and knees, it would make sense to fall forward flat, if he was on an angle to move upwards and forward. If self inflicting, the force to me would send the trajectory backwards where he likely would not have been on his stomach. I am no expert on this but relying on some basic physics.

Whether the glasses are in tact are besides the point that I am trying to bring into question. The question is: how much could the LT see without his glasses? Could this have also played a part in his demise if he tripped or was stripped of his glasses in a struggle?

What I find interesting through the course of the discussion here is that many project that LE is not forthcoming enough with every single detail, yet on the other hand assume they would be broadcasting all info if it was relevant. It just doesn't always work that way and it can't always be both. It is unknown still. And I have found after the outcome of other cases, that sometimes it is the items that are not brought to the forefront that are the compelling missing piece to the puzzle.

Say what you want but I have been involved on cases that were classified as suicide that were not that but of homicide. The suffering a family goes through in these circumstances is a nightmare, totally irresponsible and lazy investigative work. If there are varying factors that could point in either direction, the fact that it is being closely looked at, evaluated and investigated is the responsible and just thing to do. I do believe if it were cut and dry that this would be over by now. We live in a society that has so much technological advantages that we did not have in the past, cell phone pings, video surveillance, gps and more. Just because these advances might not have provided us suspects, does not mean they do not exist, IMO.

I am not ruling out suicide but I am also not ruling out homicide.

Few screen shots about the pepper spray. Thoughts?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm playing devil's advocate here but "would it be?"

What if the dna was from an encounter that was prior to the shooting that morning? Maybe from something or someone he had contact with at the gym or a diner?

I tried to express this point earlier. Just because there is a presence of dna, that doesn't automatically prove that someone was there with the LT when he was shot.

Now, if the Lt had someone else's blood and skin cells on his knuckles and clothing? And there were clear footprints in the mud that doesn't match the Lt's shoes? Then, we would have something much more of an indicator.

As it is, anyone whose dna is found on that scene could easily claim it is totally unrelated to the shooting.

I agree, if foreign DNA was collected from under the fingernails, the reason for the DNA would require an investigation too.
Since no one will say what routine Lt. G followed prior to 7:50 a.m. on September 1st, we can only imagine.

Hearsay - a neighbor saw him leaving his house around 6:30 a.m.
The drive time is less than 30 minutes (20 mins?).
What was the Lt. doing for approximately an hour in between those two times?
Info made public recently is that he was nearby the scene for 20 minutes before he contacted dispatch.

Other than that, we don't know anything about his activities.
We learned he loved coffee and never went without but no mention if he stopped someplace for coffee.
If he did stop, he's probably a regular there.
Or, maybe he fills a thermos at home eliminating the need for a coffee shop stop.
We learned (one can tell by looking at him) he was a disciplined body builder. Did he do his routine every morning? No one has said if he worked out or not yet that day.

So, if he showered, dressed, made his own coffee at home, there'd be less of a chance he'd pick up DNA under his fingernails prior to 8:00 a.m.

If he stopped for coffee, drank from a ceramic mug he used and left behind in the shop, went to work out using weights, etc. - the odds increase he could have picked up DNA via those activities.
Still, if he worked out, he probably took a shower afterward.
Since we're not privy to any of these details, we can only ponder the possibilities.

 

[longlonglake]

I found out 2 interesting things while looking at CG's Facebook page. It is still there; I was mistaken that it had been scrubbed.


Several months ago, CG commented on a weight loss of 23 pounds, and a BMI down to 17.


He also commented on another page that he had driven for and hour and a half to a LE uniform supplier to have his "vest" altered from 3x to 29x. (I don't know what that means. An increase in bullet resistance?)

Just throwing these out there for comments.

I saved these to my computer so exact dates are available; don't know if they can be posted here.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Lt. G wasn't always as fit as he looked in recent pics?

From 3x to 29 waist? Don't know what 29x means.
That would mean he slimmed down drastically.

When he pointed out his weight loss, did he indicate a reason for it or state he'd been trying/successful at losing the weight?
Did he seem proud, as one usually is imo, if he accomplished weight loss through diet, discipline and exercise?

What do you think?

 

[tcer114]

I have been working on putting together some of the information from day one. Working backwards. In any case, as I continue to compile up my thoughts. I wanted to throw a few things out there that have jumped out in my mind in the process.

1) Filenko stated the area being marshy in which he was found. I have been thinking about the whole scenario outside of what is known and easy to know. It is quite possible the LT. could have tripped and fallen on his own accord. Think of areas that are not concrete and flat. Trekking through the woods and as simple as one's own backyard could have uneven ground, holes, dips, lumps etc... One of my boys is extremely athletic, beyond the norm... anyway, we had practice on a field that was lumpy and for him who is extremely well balanced, rolled his ankle.. which affected his knee. I think some envision this GI. Joe and how could someone overpower him because he was so physically fit and well trained? Tripping and falling could explain that perhaps given whatever unknown persons an advantage. Which could explain the trajectory of the shots.

2) Lt. G wore glasses. If his glasses were somehow knocked off, could this also lead credence in somehow affecting his ability in this unknown circumstance? Could this play into the struggle?

3) Work backwards. Pepper spray was reported missing. Was this used against the LT in some manner? Is this the struggle? Just because LE states this is incorrect, does not make it so, it just so happens this info was sent over the scanner and might for a good reason be information they don't want out there. Was there some evidence that some form of pepper spray was used upon discovery of the LT?

4) One officer was dispatched for backup. Where did the additional two officers come from? Go read over the scanner thread carefully and re-listen to the audio. It's interesting and not something I had done in this much detail prior. While some speculated Lt. G voice sounded strained, I actually interpreted quite the opposite in comparison to another.

3) I was wondering about the pepper spray, too. It was originally reported that his gun AND pepper spray were missing, but then clarified they were found at the scene. I also thought the same was said about his radio but cnt remember. If that's the case, it must mean his pepper spray was found on the ground. Was it used? Why did they initially thinkhis radio was missing? Where did they find that?

4) YES.....someone finally caught this
I wasn't positive so I didn't want to post anything. The one unit never responded he was going to the scne but was the first one there.

I also think there is something really wrong with the timing of the officer down transmission, especially when the task force said he was found at 8:09.

 

[longlonglake]

There were a few comments about the weight loss. He wasn't happy about it. Don't body builders want their weight (and muscle) to increase?

The "vest" he was talking about I took to mean the bulletproof vest. I have no idea what it means, but it did seem unusual that he would drive all the way to Chicago to have it altered.

Am I allowed to post the pictures I have researched online if they are of him, his family and Facebook? They are easily available on the Internet.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The subject of illness was tossed around earlier.

Men slim down when they're involved with a new woman - just say'n.

Men slim down sometimes when facing midlife crisis and thoughts surrounding that concept.

Men slim down if they stop drinking but were heavy drinkers before doing so.

What else? Men don't agonize as much as women do when or if they resemble Santa Clause - jimo!
In other words, vanity isn't usually the sole reason for weight loss imo.
Threats to health may be enough of a reason though if, for example, high blood pressure becomes an issue.

 

[tcer114]

Pepper spray would have been detectable on his skin or clothing. Glasses could have been knocked off with the kill shot. JMO When he fell forward.

And maybe it was but is part of the information they are withholding and is part of the information that is keeping homicide on the table.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The glasses being found on or off may be one of the details LE can use for proof if someone claiming inside info about the case should come forward.
LE can even put false info out and someone could say that there were no glasses and LE would know they were telling the truth.
Other than that, other than potential DNA, why tell half a story about the glasses?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

And maybe it was but is part of the information they are withholding and is part of the information that is keeping homicide on the table.

Good thinking!
Because I doubt very much the Lt. would spray himself down with pepper spray prior to shooting himself twice.
The use of pepper spray could have started the attack by throwing the Lt. off balance.

 

[Chuz Life]

I am jumping ahead on my notes I am compiling. But let's talk about falling forward.

Ok.

If he was shot in close range in the vest after having his weapon somehow seized from him, if he had fallen and tripped or was fending off, it would be a natural progression to move forward to either get up or defend rather than backward in which a person could have been at this point standing over him, to shoot pointed downward, if the LT was in already crouched position or on his hands and knees, it would make sense to fall forward flat, if he was on an angle to move upwards and forward.

Wow. And I thought that I was bad about run on sentences. Please correct me if I am wrong but it reads like you are trying to make the case for homicide / murder. You are taking what we have been told about the angle of the fatal shot and you are trying to imagine how such an angle would be possible. Maybe even likely.

Correct?

If self inflicting, the force to me would send the trajectory backwards where he likely would not have been on his stomach. I am no expert on this but relying on some basic physics.

I am no expert either, though I do have some experience with weapons. Including .40 cal handguns. I can tell you from experience that they don't deliver the kind of impact that you are imagining.

If you are interested, here is a good video that shows the impact and damage of various .40 cal rounds.

https://youtu.be/H2p7CKSjrjQ

Whether the glasses are in tact are besides the point that I am trying to bring into question. The question is: how much could the LT see without his glasses? Could this have also played a part in his demise if he tripped or was stripped of his glasses in a struggle?

That's worth some consideration, I suppose. But, given his level of expertise how clumsy and ill prepared for a foot chase are we expected to believe the Lt was that morning?

What I find interesting through the course of the discussion here is that many project that LE is not forthcoming enough with every single detail, yet on the other hand assume they would be broadcasting all info if it was relevant. It just doesn't always work that way and it can't always be both. It is unknown still. And I have found after the outcome of other cases, that sometimes it is the items that are not brought to the forefront that are the compelling missing piece to the puzzle.

I understand your sentiments but I don't see the contradictions that you are suggesting. The expectation is not for LE to come forward with every detail. . . many of us DO expect that they would be forthcoming with key evidence that (for example) might rule out the chance that this was a suicide.

Say what you want but I have been involved on cases that were classified as suicide that were not that but of homicide. The suffering a family goes through in these circumstances is a nightmare, totally irresponsible and lazy investigative work.

All the more reason to present the evidence that they have - to show this was a homicide and not a suicide - sooner rather than later. Right?

So, if LE has ANY evidence to support the conclusion that this was a homicide, then why is LE still keeping suicide on the table as a possibility?

If there are varying factors that could point in either direction, the fact that it is being closely looked at, evaluated and investigated is the responsible and just thing to do.

That's true but I never said anything that should have been taken otherwise.

I do believe if it were cut and dry that this would be over by now.

Right! So do we both agree that there is not sufficient evidence to show this was a homicide / murder? Else, suicide would no longer be in consideration?

We live in a society that has so much technological advantages that we did not have in the past, cell phone pings, video surveillance, gps and more. Just because these advances might not have provided us suspects, does not mean they do not exist, IMO.

The manhunt ended in just 14 Hours.

LE's actions and in-actions are telling me that there never were any suspects to be found in this case.

I am not ruling out suicide but I am also not ruling out homicide.

Neither am I.

But it's still worth noting that LE is keeping suicide on the table - when they have so much more access to all the facts and evidence than we do.

Few screen shots about the pepper spray. Thoughts?
View attachment 82540View attachment 82541

Not really. We already know that the gun and the pepper spray were later accounted for at the scene.

 

[Walker007]

Good thinking!
Because I doubt very much the Lt. would spray himself down with pepper spray prior to shooting himself twice.
The use of pepper spray could have started the attack by throwing the Lt. off balance.

Exactly!! Also, since you bring up the vest. Why wear one if going to commit suicide? I am sure the pro-suicide people can weigh in and easily explain that away. But speaking from a logical standpoint.

4) YES.....someone finally caught this
I wasn't positive so I didn't want to post anything. The one unit never responded he was going to the scne but was the first one there.

I also think there is something really wrong with the timing of the officer down transmission, especially when the task force said he was found at 8:09.

I think this is key. Did you listen to him speak? Not sure how much can be discussed up here but happy to continue in the scanner thread. His voice was very stressed, IMO. And just how the heck did he get there? He did radio in once prior, I can't understand it though. How was he there before the person dispatched? I purchased a membership to RR to listen to archives. Listening currently to the earlier morning and plan to listen to prior mornings. I will post any findings in scanner thread.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

There were a few comments about the weight loss. He wasn't happy about it. Don't body builders want their weight (and muscle) to increase?

The "vest" he was talking about I took to mean the bulletproof vest. I have no idea what it means, but it did seem unusual that he would drive all the way to Chicago to have it altered.

Am I allowed to post the pictures I have researched online if they are of him, his family and Facebook? They are easily available on the Internet.

3x is a size. Vests come in sizes probably as below.
A woman might wear a S, M, L, XL, 1X, 2X, 3X.
But I've noticed men's golf shirts, for instance, are sold by size using the same letters/numbers.
A men's 29 waist, guessing, is a M.
Mens jeans have waist sizes like 29, 30, 32, 38.

A weight loss of over 20 lbs. makes a big difference in the way a person looks. Men with muscles and abs have little fat. Their weight is all muscle mostly. This is usually considered a good thing and makes a person look physically fit. A big belly does not even when the arms are impressive - lol!

 

[TheDuchess]

Lt. G wasn't always as fit as he looked in recent pics?

From 3x to 29 waist? Don't know what 29x means.
That would mean he slimmed down drastically.

When he pointed out his weight loss, did he indicate a reason for it or state he'd been trying/successful at losing the weight?
Did he seem proud, as one usually is imo, if he accomplished weight loss through diet, discipline and exercise?

What do you think?

He was very physically fit throughout his life, it would seem. Wedding photos up till several years back.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I realize everyone reading here knows about sizing and such.
I'm just trying to figure out how 3X correlates with 29 - x or no x.
One makes me think of waist size while the other makes me think of upper body overall size (in other words, no waist).

 

[Chuz Life]

Pepper spray would have been detectable on his skin or clothing. Glasses could have been knocked off with the kill shot. JMO When he fell forward.

And maybe it was but is part of the information they are withholding and is part of the information that is keeping homicide on the table.

Doesn't it make sense that - had the arriving officers had smelled the pepper spray and realized that it had been deployed. . . they would have radioed that in? Rather than reporting that it was missing or taken?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I did notice a belly at one time but don't know the year the pic was taken. Other than that, it surprised me to read he lost over 20 lbs.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Once Lt. G was found down, I think the majority of communication went to private mode.

 

[Chuz Life]

Exactly!! Also, since you bring up the vest. Why wear one if going to commit suicide? I am sure the pro-suicide people can weigh in and easily explain that away. But speaking from a logical standpoint.

Do you really not think it is logical to conclude that an officer who is trying to fake an assault on him or herself (in an attempt to hide their suicide) would keep their vest on?

Also, I wish you wouldn't call anyone "pro-suicide." In as much as I am leaning towards that as a conclusion, I would much rather the evidence be leading me to something else. I am pro-truth and pro-facts and I have no agenda in this case beyond that.

 

[tcer114]

Exactly!! Also, since you bring up the vest. Why wear one if going to commit suicide? I am sure the pro-suicide people can weigh in and easily explain that away. But speaking from a logical standpoint.



I think this is key. Did you listen to him speak? Not sure how much can be discussed up here but happy to continue in the scanner thread. His voice was very stressed, IMO. And just how the heck did he get there? He did radio in once prior, I can't understand it though. How was he there before the person dispatched? I purchased a membership to RR to listen to archives. Listening currently to the earlier morning and plan to listen to prior mornings. I will post any findings in scanner thread.

I'll keep an eye on the scanner thread. Hope I didn't say too much on this thread, tried not to specify anything specific regarding transmissions. I think this needs to be picked apart just a bit.