IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[Chuz Life]

"Suspects" To "Persons of Interest" has been brought up more than once and although I may not agree with the poster, I do agree that this designation may be important. After going over the proper use of these words by definition. I came to realize the change may be due to LE being very careful with the language they use, especially during a press conference. Both to be clear and to avoid legalities down the road.

If they had found 3 men hiding in the swamp that day, they could be called suspects. Because they were in the immediate area of a crime and fit the witnesses description, although vague.

Since they were not found that day in the swamp, and there is no living witness to confirm that they were at the scene, they would have to be downgraded to POI. Because now they are not directly linked to the crime scene. Then If they do end up questioning a POI, and that POI gets linked to the scene through evidence or witness, they could be named as suspects.

I know the change in title didn't happen simultaneously with the release of the search area, but I think they are choosing their words more carefully as the days go on.

That's all completely understandable pretty much common sense.

It still shows Le does not have any significant evidence to show the three individuals were ever actually there as radioed in by the Lt.

The question becomes "how long can they justify a search for persons of interest - based only on some foreign dna and the radio traffic of an individual who just may have been making the whole thing up?"

 

[vestigare]

I think that the only way we may hear details about it, is if the FEDS wind up investigating the PD for corruption. I am not privy to any corruption with the PD, but comments from locals and Chicagoans that I have read on MSM articles indicate suspicion. If a suicide, I think that it would have to do with departmental issues, only because all else in his life SEEMED to be ok. I doubt that an affair would cause him to kill himself, and if he was terminally ill, someone would at least suspect that he was ill, even if he did not tell anyone about it. Something IMO, was a real threat to his reputation. I have no idea what that may be. JMO

I really hope the feds take this. I have been told the department is being investigated. I think this is pretty well known now among people in le in that area.

I think there might have been some reputation problem with him combined perhaps with illness or just getting old and not taking it well. Some people get really depressed, lowered testosterone with age. Maybe some financial insecurities as well. He was retiring with no job on the horizon....

 

[Chuz Life]

To me the recent information about Lt CG being at the location and walking around for 20 minutes before calling in his first report is very important, for any of the scenarios being discussed.

Looking at the possibility that it was a suicide I’m wondering if it could have gone down something like this:

He has a plan in his head about how it should/could be done to allow his family to gain insurance etc. if it looks like an attack vs a suicide. He knows that it is best that he radio’s in like it’s no big deal he sees the three males and then shortly after that it is escalating and to send backup. He walks around a little thinking about the scene he wants to create and talks himself into doing it.

He goes to a little off the road (so they can find him somewhat quick) and makes the first call, waits a couple minutes and makes the second call. Now he shoots himself trying to shoot up under his vest. But because it is such a difficult angle (hold your hand in that possible position to see what I mean), it jerks slightly and hits his vest. (Also, maybe he tried to pull the trigger with his thumb, because of the angle, and his thumb print is on the gun in an odd spot and that is causing confusion for investigators)?

Now he is stunned and knows that backup is coming up quick so he heads further down the gravel road and further into the woods/swamp so that backup can’t see him shooting himself this second time. Now he shoots down from the top. This could explain the 100’ distance between the shell casings, the possible angles and trajectories.

Your version is very close to the one I've been trying to present myself. I should have written it out like you did.

 

[vestigare]

The Facebook page has him saying in April (in 2014 or 2015), that he "dropped another 2 lbs., dropped total of 23 lbs. in 1.5 months." Then he comments, "Ughhhh".

If he was applying for other jobs he might have been required to submit to a medical and/or drug tests. Perhaps he was taking some sort of performance enhancing drugs that he went off of four these tests and when he did he lost muscle quickly and thus a rapid weight loss. Or he might have been sick....

Also men lose testosterone as they age and you need testosterone to build muscles....

This is something the victimology should answer and there is no reason for them to be withholding that.

 

[cady]

Skel....Shouldn't there be evidence on his body from the vest shot? Maybe there is, and we just don't know. JMO

 

[Cubby]

Does anyone from illinois know if this will go to a jury or panel if not ruled soon?

http://www.coronersillinois.org/index-for-coroner-laws-of-illinois


http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=005500050K3-3013

In all counties, in cases of apparent suicide, homicide, or accidental death or in other cases, within the discretion of the coroner, the coroner may summon 8 persons of lawful age from those persons drawn for petit jurors in the county. The summons shall command these persons to present themselves personally at such a place and time as the coroner shall determine, and may be in any form which the coroner shall determine and may incorporate any reasonable form of request for acknowledgement which the coroner deems practical and provides a reliable proof of service. The summons may be served by first class mail. From the 8 persons so summoned, the coroner shall select 6 to serve as the jury for the inquest. Inquests may be continued from time to time, as the coroner may deem necessary. The 6 jurors selected in a given case may view the body of the deceased. If at any continuation of an inquest one or more of the original jurors shall be unable to continue to serve, the coroner shall fill the vacancy or vacancies. A juror serving pursuant to this paragraph shall receive compensation from the county at the same rate as the rate of compensation that is paid to petit or grand jurors in the county. The coroner shall furnish to each juror without fee at the time of his discharge a certificate of the number of days in attendance at an inquest, and, upon being presented with such certificate, the county treasurer shall pay to the juror the sum provided for his services.
In counties which have a jury commission, in cases of apparent suicide or homicide or of accidental death, the coroner may conduct an inquest. The jury commission shall provide at least 8 jurors to the coroner, from whom the coroner shall select any 6 to serve as the jury for the inquest. Inquests may be continued from time to time as the coroner may deem necessary. The 6 jurors originally chosen in a given case may view the body of the deceased. If at any continuation of an inquest one or more of the 6 jurors originally chosen shall be unable to continue to serve, the coroner shall fill the vacancy or vacancies. At the coroner's discretion, additional jurors to fill such vacancies shall be supplied by the jury commission. A juror serving pursuant to this paragraph in such county shall receive compensation from the county at the same rate as the rate of compensation that is paid to petit or grand jurors in the county.


I see nothing in here that mentions a specific time in which the coroner should make the decision to on an inquest.

 

[Chuz Life]

Skel....Shouldn't there be evidence on his body from the vest shot? Maybe there is, and we just don't know. JMO

It would depend on the trajectory, Cady. If it was straight on, there might have been some bruising (busted blood vessels) but if it was a glancing shot - there might not be any bruising at all.

 

[vestigare]

Questions the task force should answer and would not compromise a homicide investigation.
Please add.

-Where did he go that morning before he asked on scene?
-Toxicology
-Huge loss of money or expenditures?
-Was his Cell phone on?
-Did he receive any calls that morning?
-Was CPR performed?
-Chain of custody of his clothing and other items
-How were the Feds Alerted what was the exact call terminology?
-How much has been spent thus far on this investigation?
-Did The FBI refuse a reward request?
-Did the FBI refuse CODIS samples based on insufficient evidence they were connected to a crime?
-How many search warrants were executed for dna?
-What was the probable cause for those search warrants?
-Did his cell phone have gps?
-Was he ever under internal investigation?
-Was he ever disciplined regarding the Explorers?
-Could he have continued with the program in retirement?
-Why wasn't he considered for the Fox Lake Chief position?
-Did his compete show any searches regarding his benefits, suicide, death on duty?
-What was his supposed day of retirement
-Was he required to be at roll call
-How often did he take a cruiser home over night
-What date did his next step of retirement benefits kick in?
-When was his last PD medical exam

 

[Skel]

Skel....Shouldn't there be evidence on his body from the vest shot? Maybe there is, and we just don't know. JMO

I'm not sure what type of evidence you're suggesting. I will have to look back but I believe they indicated he was shot in the lower right side of his vest, that it had the impact of being hit by a sledge hammer, etc. If you are thinking bruising, etc. I would have thought that it would have been present, something that would have been consistent with a blow like a sledge hammer and that is why it was reported that way at the last presser.

 

[cady]

It would depend on the trajectory, Cady. If it was straight on, there might have been some bruising (busted blood vessels) but if it was a glancing shot - there might not be any bruising at all.

So, does this mean that the first shot was intended to be the killing shot? Maybe. I am still stuck on the vest shot as part of the staging....JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

Questions the task force should answer and would not compromise a homicide investigation.
Please add.

-Where did he go that morning before he asked on scene?
-Toxicology
-Huge loss of money or expenditures?
-Was his Cell phone on?
-Did he receive any calls that morning?
-Was CPR performed?
-Chain of custody of his clothing and other items
-How were the Feds Alerted what was the exact call terminology?
-How much has been spent thus far on this investigation?
-Did The FBI refuse a reward request?
-Did the FBI refuse CODIS samples based on insufficient evidence they were connected to a crime?
-How many search warrants were executed for dna?
-What was the probable cause for those search warrants?
-Did his cell phone have gps?
-Was he ever under internal investigation?
-Was he ever disciplined regarding the Explorers?
-Could he have continued with the program in retirement?
-Why wasn't he considered for the Fox Lake Chief position?
-Did his compete show any searches regarding his benefits, suicide, death on duty?
-What was his supposed day of retirement
-Was he required to be at roll call
-How often did he take a cruiser home over night
-What date did his next step of retirement benefits kick in?
-When was his last PD medical exam

Good list. I might add some of my own to this.

 

[Cubby]

I really hope the feds take this. I have been told the department is being investigated. I think this is pretty well known now among people in le in that area.

I think there might have been some reputation problem with him combined perhaps with illness or just getting old and not taking it well. Some people get really depressed, lowered testosterone with age. Maybe some financial insecurities as well. He was retiring with no job on the horizon....

Based on the obituary placed by the funeral home, I honestly think he was the type to want to quit while at the top of his game. I don't see him as someone happy or comfortable with slowing down.

http://www.strangfh.com/home/index.cfm/obituaries/view/fh_id/10834/id/3297145


On another note, I always thought it was at age 55 a person qualifies for a state of IL pension. Is that different for LEO's than it is other state workers?

 

[cady]

I'm not sure what type of evidence you're suggesting. I will have to look back but I believe they indicated he was shot in the lower right side of his vest, that it had the impact of being hit by a sledge hammer, etc. If you are thinking bruising, etc. I would have thought that it would have been present, something that would have been consistent with a blow like a sledge hammer and that is why it was reported that way at the last presser.

All correct, IMO. Just that we have not been told IF there was evidence on his skin from the vest shot. As Chuz said, depending on trajectory, there may be no bruise or abrasion, but geeze! The impact of a sledgehammer? At that close range, I'd think he'd have been knocked on his arse.! JMO

 

[vestigare]

It would depend on the trajectory, Cady. If it was straight on, there might have been some bruising (busted blood vessels) but if it was a glancing shot - there might not be any bruising at all.

That is what bugged me about the "sledgehammer" quote because that was more propaganda based on nothing they have provided.

We have no reason to believe that shot was while he was wearing the vest not that it was a full impact and nor a glancing blow but the autopsy would without a doubt know.

 

[Cubby]

OK, I found it. After 30 years of service an IL LEO qualifies for 75% of the salary on their last day of service.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=004000050K3-111

According to his obit his 30 years of service was in August of this year qualifying him for the max percentage. There is as smaller percentage for leo who retire with less than 30 years of service.

 

[Chuz Life]

So, does this mean that the first shot was intended to be the killing shot? Maybe. I am still stuck on the vest shot as part of the staging....JMO

It all depends on what his intentions were, Cady.

If the Lt was simply staging the shooting to make it look like he was ambushed, had a scuffle and then survived? I think he would most likely choose to shoot his vest at odd - glancing angles. But not necessarily. It depends on how much he trusted his vest and how much of a struggle he was trying to mimic.

If he was trying to administer a "killing shot" to himself, I doubt he would have chose to shoot his vest at all.

 

[vestigare]

So, does this mean that the first shot was intended to be the killing shot? Maybe. I am still stuck on the vest shot as part of the staging....JMO

It is possible he didn't think the vest was as good as it was and he did intend for it to go through. It would have left a mark though and knocked the wind out of him. I don't think it would have incapacitated him like some have suggested. Not in the abdomen.

So if it left a mark the autopsy would know that and there is no reason they haven't shared that which makes me think it didn't leave a mark. Or they know it want that bad of a shot.

 

[Chuz Life]

All correct, IMO. Just that we have not been told IF there was evidence on his skin from the vest shot. As Chuz said, depending on trajectory, there may be no bruise or abrasion, but geeze! The impact of a sledgehammer? At that close range, I'd think he'd have been knocked on his arse.! JMO

In my opinion and in my experience, the "sledgehammer" comment by Filenko was very exaggerated and uncalled for.

Here is a video of someone taking a direct hit at point blank range from a .40 cal with a vest on.

Please watch.

[video=youtube;VDRRJZ6rJBY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDRRJZ6rJBY&feature=youtube[/video]

 

[TheDuchess]

How possible could it be that the gun was fired twice in a struggle for the weapon, both times by LtG? Or if it might have been possible that the first shot went off in a struggle for the gun and then the 2nd fatal shot went off as he fell to the ground?

I am also curious as to whether they can tell if the vest was shot while being worn. I would imagine that there would be the presence of GSR, bruising of some sort, etc...as he would have been alive at that moment or there would be something on his clothing to match up to against the actual shot? I would imagine it would leave at least a bruise?

Also, I wonder if it might be possible that the first shot may have been the fatal one and the 2nd one happened after the first one? Perhaps 2 shots in succession?

 

[cady]

In my opinion and in my experience, the "sledgehammer" comment by Filenko was very exaggerated and uncalled for.

Here is a video of someone taking a direct hit at point blank range from a .40 cal with a vest on.

Please watch.

https://youtu.be/VDRRJZ6rJBY

WOW WOW WOW......everyone should watch! JMO