IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

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  • #421
I agree. I can't wrap my head around why the task force can't provide just one piece of evidence that this is homicide if they are so sure it is. They haven't provided anything and it is frustrating because like you said what they provide isn't relevant to homicide but they act like we should be wowed by it and throw down the towel and say, "Oh well there you go it is clearly homicide, we can all go home now."

BBM

You say that you only deal with the facts and are unbiased and unemotional towards your findings. So when you say the following:

"...they act like we should be wowed by it and throw down the towel and say, "Oh well there you go it is clearly homicide, we can all go home now."

----how exactly did the 'facts' show this? Any links to factually show that this ^^^ is their thinking and attitude?
 
  • #422
I don't think they've hired a PR firm; wouldn't they (PR firm) suggest a more personable spokesperson than Filenko? He comes across as arrogant, sly and abrasive. He sounds like he's from the city of Chicago by the accent. Maybe Coveli should do the talking. He's always standing there looking up at Filenko, as if he's Filenko's adoring pet. JMO

And, as has been mentioned, our opinions are just our opinions, and don't in any way influence anything.
 
  • #423
BBM

You say that you only deal with the facts and are unbiased and unemotional towards your findings. So when you say the following:

"...they act like we should be wowed by it and throw down the towel and say, "Oh well there you go it is clearly homicide, we can all go home now."

----how exactly did the 'facts' show this? Any links to factually show that this ^^^ is their thinking and attitude?
What? Did you watch the numerous press conferences? Do you see how angry Filenko gets at the questions asked after he lays out his new evidence and the journalist doesn't eat it up?

Do you think they are just providing these pieces of evidence because they have nothing to do that day? They are providing them because they think they will show why they should continue investigating this as a homicide and when it doesn't they show frustration.
 
  • #424
I don't think they've hired a PR firm; wouldn't they (PR firm) suggest a more personable spokesperson than Filenko? He comes across as arrogant, sly and abrasive. He sounds like he's from the city of Chicago by the accent. Maybe Coveli should do the talking. He's always standing there looking up at Filenko, as if he's Filenko's adoring pet. JMO

And, as has been mentioned, our opinions are just our opinions, and don't in any way influence anything.

Isn't Covelli the task force spokesperson or information officer anyway? So yeah they should let him talk. The more Filenko talks the lower his IQ gets in my estimation. He also loses respect because of his compete disdain for those he serves.
 
  • #425
That is possible but I can not think how they would ever prove it unless he did some computer searches on workmans comp recently and was interested in other officer shootings.

If his earlier injury was work related, he would have enough of a comp claim to last him a lifetime esp in Illinois and being under a union, if his arm was a total loss of affecting future work in the capacity capable. Not only would you be taking in 3/4 weekly wage, while off work, you have future settlement based on the loss in capacity of injured part and wage differential if unable to work in same capacity at same rate plus working years potential. However, with his retirement, a little tricky as he is due pension but that is separate from work comp and staying on longer could play a part. As the remaining working years are calculated in those settlements, so likely wouldn't apply for wage differential, hard to say as unions are very helpful to these claimants even the fraudulent ones. If it was a non working injury, that obviously would have affected his job, yes now we have a big issue. It was on his Facebook somewhere about his son talking about him being on desk duty last year, with his arm brace, where he signs paperwork etc.... If work injury, many frauds happily stay home, work 2nd jobs while also collecting 3/4 weekly wage from their injured job, typically the ones who are legit make an effort to get back to work on modified or light duty. This is also dependent on employer accommodation, which is usually in employers best interest or their premium will soar or they end up cancelled. Just depends. So, I guess what I am saying is if this was work comp related, he wouldn't have had to shoot himself, he simply could have fallen down and re-injured his arm (no matter had this originally been a work or non-work related injury, he was released back to work) which would have then allowed him to file a claim. Illinois has some of the worst laws that do NOT PREVENT fraud in filing work comp claims. I can't tell you how many legitimately injured people get screwed over in comparison to the frauds. The LT. does NOT AT ALL strike me as one of the fraud guys, JMO. His dedication to instilling his own time spent working with juveniles to better their futures tells a lot about what type of person he was.
 
  • #426
What? Did you watch the numerous press conferences? Do you see how angry Filenko gets at the questions asked after he lays out his new evidence and the journalist doesn't eat it up?

Do you think they are just providing these pieces of evidence because they have nothing to do that day? They are providing them because they think they will show why they should continue investigating this as a homicide and when it doesn't they show frustration.

Your description of the pressers does not sound like one of an unbiased observer of the facts. The description is colored by your own interpretation of what is going on, in my opinion. Maybe your interpretation is correct, maybe not. But it is an 'interpretation' of the facts and not the actual facts themselves. JMO
 
  • #427
If his earlier injury was work related, he would have enough of a comp claim to last him a lifetime esp in Illinois and being under a union, if his arm was a total loss of affecting future work in the capacity capable. Not only would you be taking in 3/4 weekly wage, while off work, you have future settlement based on the loss in capacity of injured part and wage differential if unable to work in same capacity at same rate plus working years potential. However, with his retirement, a little tricky as he is due pension but that is separate from work comp and staying on longer could play a part. As the remaining working years are calculated in those settlements, so likely wouldn't apply for wage differential, hard to say as unions are very helpful to these claimants even the fraudulent ones. If it was a non working injury, that obviously would have affected his job, yes now we have a big issue. It was on his Facebook somewhere about his son talking about him being on desk duty last year, with his arm brace, where he signs paperwork etc.... If work injury, many frauds happily stay home, work 2nd jobs while also collecting 3/4 weekly wage from their injured job, typically the ones who are legit make an effort to get back to work on modified or light duty. This is also dependent on employer accommodation, which is usually in employers best interest or their premium will soar or they end up cancelled. Just depends. So, I guess what I am saying is if this was work comp related, he wouldn't have had to shoot himself, he simply could have fallen down and re-injured his arm (no matter had this originally been a work or non-work related injury, he was released back to work) which would have then allowed him to file a claim. Illinois has some of the worst laws that do NOT PREVENT fraud in filing work comp claims. I can't tell you how many legitimately injured people get screwed over in comparison to the frauds. The LT. does NOT AT ALL strike me as one of the fraud guys, JMO. His dedication to instilling his own time spent working with juveniles to better their futures tells a lot about what type of person he was.

From what I have been told his injury was from a vacation run (Hawaii I believe) and not work related at all. He also was medically cleared to return to work so no workman comp.
 
  • #428
Your description of the pressers does not sound like one of an unbiased observer of the facts. The description is colored by your own interpretation of what is going on, in my opinion. Maybe your interpretation is correct, maybe not. But it is an 'interpretation' of the facts and not the actual facts themselves. JMO

Oh so it isn't a fact that Filnko read evidence at a press conference and answered questions.....
I guess my tv sees different press conferences than yours or maybe you have a slight problem understanding how one comes to a logical conclusion?
 
  • #429
Just curious:

Was CG right or left handed?

Would this injury have left him with any weakness that may have affected his ability to fire a gun? Even though he was cleared for duty?
 
  • #430
Oh so it isn't a fact that Filnko read evidence at a press conference and answered questions.....
I guess my tv sees different press conferences than yours or maybe you have a slight problem understanding how one comes to a logical conclusion?

No, those are facts. He read evidence and answered questions. Correct. But you then attributed what he was thinking and feeling and what his inner motivations and reactions were about. And those are assumptions on your part--not facts. JMO
 
  • #431
Just curious:

Was CG right or left handed?

Would this injury have left him with any weakness that may have affected his ability to fire a gun? Even though he was cleared for duty?

We went over this in thread two I believe. He was right handed. But he was medically cleared and there are social media of him target shooting after the injury.
 
  • #432
No, those are facts. He read evidence and answered questions. Correct. But you then attributed what he was thinking and feeling and what his inner motivations and reactions were about. And those are assumptions on your part--not facts. JMO
Yes it is JUST YOUR OPINION. Glad you realize that.
 
  • #433
  • #434
No, those are facts. He read evidence and answered questions. Correct. But you then attributed what he was thinking and feeling and what his inner motivations and reactions were about. And those are assumptions on your part--not facts. JMO
Logical conclusions based on facts.
From the AP
Filenko became defensive when a reporter asked why police had not discovered footprints or tire marks that could point to people fleeing the scene.

"Sir, if you went out and looked at the area, you tell me where you could see footprints," Filenko said.
 
  • #435
Logical conclusions based on facts.
From the AP
Filenko became defensive when a reporter asked why police had not discovered footprints or tire marks that could point to people fleeing the scene.

"Sir, if you went out and looked at the area, you tell me where you could see footprints," Filenko said.

" I have a murdered colleague-a police officer- and we're not going to stop" -George Filenko JMO
 
  • #436
" I have a murdered colleague-a police officer- and we're not going to stop" -George Filenko JMO

“Dr. Rudd, releasing information which is sensitive to this investigation, puts the entire case at risk,” Filenko said. “All of the progress made since this tragic incident is potentially in jeopardy.

“This is an active investigation, and it’s inappropriate for anyone other than the investigating body to release information to the media prior to providing a final written report of the findings, or even having a conversation with the task force.”

But I guess we aren't meant to have an thoughts about the actual evidence he releases according to some people because that shows bias. Yeah whatever....
 
  • #437
Filenko said "trying to be transparent because I've heard the word conspiracy quite often."
 
  • #438
"Have held back details because we don't want to compromise a potential prosecution by providing information only the gunman or a witness would know." Filenko said.
 
  • #439
What? Did you watch the numerous press conferences? Do you see how angry Filenko gets at the questions asked after he lays out his new evidence and the journalist doesn't eat it up?

Do you think they are just providing these pieces of evidence because they have nothing to do that day? They are providing them because they think they will show why they should continue investigating this as a homicide and when it doesn't they show frustration.

They don't need public approval on how to conduct their investigation. I think they are trying to be accommodating given the demand for knowledge due to the high profile aspect of this case. As Filenko said, they are trying to be as transparent as they can be with the public with information. They are trying to remain professional, do nothing that could compromise their investigation which includes the factor in that if this is a homicide, you need to be mindful of a future court case. I certainly wouldn't want any force investigating a crime against one of my family members to do anything to compromise their efforts to seek justice in the event of a homicide.

So, we the public expect LE to tell us everything when we the public do not know all of the critical details but they should release them to appease our curiosity? Later, this is pubclized with enough information to be that of a homicide, and we all hope and demand justice for the LT> but something that was critical was released to the public to satisfy our curiosity demands, which can later be a hindrance in apprehending the persons responsible or thrown out in court for a possible variety of reasons. Well, then the outcry will be about their incompetence for releasing that information. They can't win.
If a suicide is declared prematurely without processing and diligently pursing the evidence in the homicide angle, later this information will be available for FOIA, which is where you see in other cases that have been classified suicide when in fact evidence was not explored, collected and even ignored all together in what would be otherwise a homicide, then you find these families typically pursue their own private avenues to have cases reviewed by other outside experts who rip apart all of the mistakes etc etc..(Yes, there are some as well whose families just can't accept it, but there are PLENTY who have legitimate grievances) Ugh, this I could go on and on about as there is so much more. But I don't have time to write a novel. Look up the Sheena Morris case.

All I am saying is they are in a tight situation which can be frustrating. I re-listened to the last presser this morning and Filenko became frustrated over the same question asked repeatedly that he already said he couldn't answer. Why don't we express frustration with the press to be a little more creative in asking questions that we may have better chance of getting answered instead of ones he already said he can't answer. None of us knows one way or another the unreleased facts. Though, some are on the scanner for those who are actually interested in delving further into fact finding.

Here are some informative articles on GSR. Also, read the last posters entry of the first link. Very informative and worth weighing. Says the FBI lab no longer processes GSR on a routine basis. There seems to also be this mentality that if the FBI conducts an investigation it would somehow be better handled, typical rhetoric used in cases when people are not satisfied in some manner. The FBI is assisting as are other agencies in this investigation. Which means all of their resources are available to the investigating agency. The outcry for this is more valid in the cases when the investigating agencies do not request this assistance agencies who have more resources available than their own for various convoluted reasons. The FBI does not storm in and take over state cases even when corruption is the likely factor to a case not being properly investigated. It doesn't work that way.

http://www.forensicmag.com/articles/2014/08/gunshot-residue-collection-decisions-make-or-break-case

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/print/understanding-gunshot-residue.pdf

Filenko Recap.

Right Side front of his vest. To incapacitate him

The second shot Fatal. Upper left chest region.

"The report indicates that Lt. G discharged the firearm, contacted gsr to the related item or had both hands in the environment of a discharged firearm, it indicates that the sampled areas may not have contacted gsr to the related item or may or may not have been in an environment of a discharged firearm, if they were then the particles were not depositive, were removed by activity or were not detected by the procedure."

The weapon could have been fired by him or been in close proximity of the weapon being fire.

Possibility that either his hands were on the weapon when it was fired or he was in close proximity when it was fired.


Q. Can you talk about dna found? Did you find any on the officers weapon or if there was a struggle of some kind was there any dna or fingerprints from someone else?

A. We are not going to talk about the fingerprints today. The DNA was found on a variety of items that the officer had, I’ll just put it that way.

Q. Is this unidentifiable DNA?
A. This is unidentifiable DNA. That is still running through the system.

Q.But DNA on the weapon?
A.Thats a fact we are still going to hold close to the cuff.

Q. what was the evidence of the struggle?
A. Again, that is key information. Not ready to release.

Several weeks prior to this incident, there have been a number of complaints regarding vandalism, squatters, to suspicious persons.

Any better description of the three guys.
A. NO, the only description we have is of what the officer called out.

BBM, He was VERY FIRM, his voiced raised to a higher tone when he said this. And honestly, if you think about it, given the lack of description, for all we know individuals the task force spoke with on that day, could very well have been involved. Simple as slipping back into one of the warehouses which to me is interesting thought after listening to scanner. How you can fully rule out on the scene? I can see why the DNA is being so heavily relied on at this point.
 
  • #440
I have spent a great deal of time listening back on the scanner archives from that day, caved and bought a membership to radio reference . Specifically, the Lake County Sheriff scanner. Still much to go but I will say there is legitimacy in things we have been told, even much later on, that some have been skeptical about. There were medical issues due to heat with the dogs. Dogs did get a track. A warning was sent out for caution for anyone if they go into the swamp, they will go under. (I thought that was intresting) I won't post anything in detail specifically because I know this isn't the scanner thread and I am working on notes to post there. I will say listening to it I don't find anything skeptical or underhanded in what was done. They did their job that they are paid to do and I was surprised how fast they actually did get it together even though it was mentioned even in that, was concern they got out of that area. I really believed they covered their bases in the best way possible. As a taxpayer I wouldn't be mad about the cost in the response because it is what it is irregardless. The conversation and tone feels very anti-LE. I know there are some departments that are not on the up and up. I have had experience and great frustration in that realm in the past. However, I am just not feeling that here, JMO. LE is darned if you do and darned if they don't. They can't please everyone. In fact, had this case not been as high profile as it started out, the demand might not be as intense and they would be left to work their investigation like many cases where we hear nothing for months and then one day there is an arrest made. I know thats not always case but no two cases are exactly alike to another in details, facts and circumstances.

I talked to my brother this evening who briefly spoke with a family member who has a business literally a stones throw from the scene. He didn't get to talk long but he did garner that they do believe it is a homicide, and this fm volunteers with some leo in the area who are also firm this is indeed a homicide. Just passing along the info.

I also have an additional thought to why suicide is on the table as not being ruled out, if in fact there is enough evidence to prove a homicide. I think LT. G wife mentioning about Rudd being an elected official and the fact that the task force did ask the pathologist, the person who performed the autopsy, to not release any information. This was in an earlier article. Rudd in turn goes on the record saying his "feelings are hurt" and blah blah. Reminds me of those who always want to be in front of the camera that I have encountered in the past. Rudd, who remember at the time, HAS NO INFORMATION about the investigation can't rule on the manner of death. While I don't agree with punishment politics, on either end of the spectrum, I have to wonder if the task force is keeping this in limbo aka on the table to later prove a point about Rudd with the family in the loop due to the actions Rudd took by speaking out, which sounded like a bruised ego, especially since by his own accord, he had not spoken to the task force. I would have to question how much Rudd attempted to speak to them before going to the press? Had it been a feeble attempt, I would be pissed as well, which could explain the harsh response from Filenko. Just a theory anyway.

You are absolutely correct about Rudd and he NEVER said it was suicide. He said he couldn't rule manner of death without information. LE in Lake county want him out, they don't want him to be reelected and right now, Rudd looks like a crybaby that could of jeapordized the investigation and in the very least is making life more difficult for his family.
 
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