IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[Chuz Life]

What you see is me saying the task force has provided no proof this is homicide as every single piece of evidence they have provided could be suicide as much as it could be homicide.
For suicide we need no further evidence to be presented. For homicide we obviously need some sort of evidence that has yet to be even found by the task force or they would have wrapped this up and stopped leaving suicide on the table. So yes, I am 100% certain right now that nothing they have provided the public proves Homicide and I am fairly certain nothing the Task Force is holding back proves homicide because I can't imagine why they would keep that evidence from the coroner and why he wouldn't then determine the manner of death as homicide if they had that info.

Vestigare, that's a great summary and you said it very well. However, I have some questions for you. Considering that we both are thinking this is/ was a self inflicted killing of some sort. . .


If this was in fact a suicide, do you believe the Lt intended to kill himself and to make it look like he was KIA?

I must admit that was my first inclination when I joined this thread several weeks ago. But then I started realizing all of the things he could have done better - to make it more convincing.

That's why I then started thinking he might have wanted to stage the encounter - but not necessarily his death.

 

[Chuz Life]

Right, like chase 3 suspicious characters on foot into dense cover before backup arrived.

Or, lie and say you did when you didn't.

 

[vestigare]

Vestigare, that's a great summary and you said it very well. However, I have some questions for you. Considering that we both are thinking this is/ was a suicide. . .

If this was in fact a suicide, do you believe the Lt intended to kill himself and to make it look like he was KIA?

I must admit that was my first inclination when I joined this thread several weeks ago. But then I started realizing all of the things he could have done better - to make it more convincing.

That's why I then started thinking he might have wanted to stage the encounter - but not necessarily his death.

Yes, I think he planned this to make it look like it was in the line of duty. If he just wanted to kill himself and be found by someone that wasn't family or someone just coming along and stumbling on his body he could have done it many other ways. I understand your scenario but I just think that takes so much more effort on his part and I can't see how he thought he could get away with it in the long run nor what exactly he would have gotten out of it but a few moments of glory.

Do you believe there was some sort of other reason he would have wanted to do it besides personal glory?

 

[Chuz Life]

Yes, I think he planned this to make it look like it was in the line of duty. If he just wanted to kill himself and be found by someone that wasn't family or someone just coming along and stumbling on his body he could have done it many other ways. I understand your scenario but I just think that takes so much more effort on his part and I can't see how he thought he could get away with it in the long run nor what exactly he would have gotten out of it but a few moments of glory.

Do you believe there was some sort of other reason he would have wanted to do it besides personal glory?

BBM

I understand your questions and I can only offer guesses about his possible motivations. I have to go out for a bit so maybe we can pick that part up later.

Before I go, though - I do have to say that I can't see how he thought he could get away with a faked KIA in the long run. He had to know there would be a much more intense investigation into an officer Killed In Action than there would be for a simple police action shooting.

 

[vestigare]

BBM

I understand your questions and I can only offer guesses about his possible motivations. I have to go out for a bit so maybe we can pick that part up later.

Before I go, though - I do have to say that I can't see how he thought he could get away with a faked KIA in the long run. He had to know there would be a much more intense investigation into an officer Killed In Action than there would be for a simple police action shooting.

I am not sure he much cared how long he could get away it once he was dead but only hoped he could.
I don't think he expected anyone to cover for him or anything but I do think he realized that when a cop is killed he is treated like a dead hero-god-warrior who can do no wrong by pretty much everyone on the force, in the town govt and the citizens.

If you are being treated like a hero while alive human nature usually takes over and co-workers get jealous of the attention you are receiving and you start to slip up and they start to notice little inconsistencies and before you know it someone on the force is digging around about your story and you are called into Internal Affairs and forced to account for those inconsistencies and whammo you are screwed.

If you are dead they tend not to get too jealous (although I think the Chicago guy who called in was probably a little jealous of the attention being given to someone he thinks committed suicide) and then we have seen if you even question a dead man who is seen as a hero-god-warrior you come under fire yourself, so many people will hold their speculation to themsleves because it will do nothing but hurt them and you can't punish a dead man for his story not holding water.

So I think it is easier to think you can get away with a faked Killed in the line of duty slightly easier than you can a faked shot in the line of duty incident. But then he might have only hoped and knew he wasn't going to be around to deal with the fall out anyway....

Catch you later. I have to go out later too so I will see you when I see you...


I wanted to add that I honestly think he probably would have gotten away with it had Rudd not be the coroner and we know this county has a long history of some dubious investigations and he may not have even thought this investigation would be any different than all those previous ones had been.

 

[Japple]

fwiw, the satt picture used in steelmans map if from 6-3-15 at aprox 11:00 am. I just zoomed in on my house and it shows a truck load of dirt in my driveway and me on a machine that I rented that day.

Also, fwiw, I drove by the area on sept 1st at around noon. I didn't know they had rollins closed at sayton and took that way home to get a look at the action. I was turned around at that intersection and headed back into town. What I find strange about it is who was manning the blockade. It was 2 village workers. The ones that wear blue jeans and a village of fox lake t-shirt. These are the guys that fix broken water lines and clear blocked storm drains, not trained officers. Also, at least part of sayton road was still open, and they were directing traffic onto rollins in the one direction only. I would think you'd have armed officers at an intersection so close to the crime scene.

 

[cady]

A dime here a quarter there. What does it matter right?

I guess it depends upon one's idea of altruism.......personally, I have no problem with my tax dollars being used for food and medical assistance for LIVING fellow human beings....and that is not altruistic....it affords some peace of mind for me, that something is being done, to help relieve some very real issues, even with all the warts and loopholes. JMO

 

[vestigare]

fwiw, the satt picture used in steelmans map if from 6-3-15 at aprox 11:00 am. I just zoomed in on my house and it shows a truck load of dirt in my driveway and me on a machine that I rented that day.

Also, fwiw, I drove by the area on sept 1st at around noon. I didn't know they had rollins closed at sayton and took that way home to get a look at the action. I was turned around at that intersection and headed back into town. What I find strange about it is who was manning the blockade. It was 2 village workers. The ones that wear blue jeans and a village of fox lake t-shirt. These are the guys that fix broken water lines and clear blocked storm drains, not trained officers. Also, at least part of sayton road was still open, and they were directing traffic onto rollins in the one direction only. I would think you'd have armed officers at an intersection so close to the crime scene.

Why is it still a locked down crime scene anyway? That makes no sense. This is a public road with businesses on it. I might can understand them keeping crime tape up around where his body was found but blocking a road? The crime scene is over a month old and out in the elements what exactly are the protecting that they haven't already documented and taken evidence from?

Maybe the police have nothing to do with this but the village is wanting to keep out crime tourists so have the town maintenance doing it?

I would certainly hope they wouldn't have armed officers there 24/7.... that is overkill.

 

[vestigare]

Just found out 71 Nippersink is the Chamber of Commerce offices as well as where the Lions Club meets.

It is a building called the LAKEFRONT PARK.

Looks like a sort of community center meeting area.


Area folks am I right????
So changing the locks I would imagine isn't just a slam against the Explorers it meant all sorts of groups needed new keys. Am I correct?

 

[cady]

rsbm

Of course not. Sure, a chief is a leader, but a police department is not a business, in the proper sense; predatory fines and tickets aside, a police department is not a commercial entity.

Or, is it?..............JMO

 

[cady]

How about staged suicide gone wrong?
Does that sum the concept up?

staged homicide gone wrong.........JMO

 

[cady]

Question for Task Force.
-If part of Joe's responsibility was this area that was now owned by the village why didn't he have keys to the gate down Honing Road?

VERY good question! JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

VERY good question! JMO

Isn't that private property that is for sale? I would assume the owner and or realtor would have a key to the gate.jmo idk

 

[cady]

Isn't that private property that is for sale? I would assume the owner and or realtor would have a key to the gate.jmo idk

YEP But if they wanted it to be patrolled regularly, they should have provided a key to the PD? JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Back in the day (1948) to be a cop where I lived one of the three must to be a cop was that you had to have served in the armed services. Not Illinois but non the less.

 

[vestigare]

YEP But if they wanted it to be patrolled regularly, they should have provided a key to the PD? JMO

Plus Filenko said part of that property was owned by the village now and they had had meetings about it and Gliniewicz was present at the those meetings.
So if the land is own by the Village someone other than the realtor has access. Especially if that is a village road down to that cement plant. It sure has a name.

 

[Japple]

Why is it still a locked down crime scene anyway? That makes no sense. This is a public road with businesses on it. I might can understand them keeping crime tape up around where his body was found but blocking a road? The crime scene is over a month old and out in the elements what exactly are the protecting that they haven't already documented and taken evidence from?



Maybe the police have nothing to do with this but the village is wanting to keep out crime tourists so have the town maintenance doing it?

I would certainly hope they wouldn't have armed officers there 24/7.... that is overkill.

I was talking about when I drove by the day this all happened. It was at the height of the manhunt. The only area that still has tape on it is where the gate is on honing.

 

[vestigare]

Back in the day (1948) to be a cop where I lived one of the three must to be a cop was that you had to have served in the armed services. Not Illinois but non the less.

What?

 

[vestigare]

I was talking about when I drove by the day this all happened. It was at the height of the manhunt. The only area that still has tape on it is where the gate is on honing.

Oh sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you meant you just drove down recently.

 

[vestigare]

Question for task force.
- Why do you not know as of the last presser whether Joe was supposed to have been at roll call that morning?