IL IL - Timmothy Fry-Pitzen, 6, Aurora, 13 May 2011 - mom found dead - #1

[MarthaM]

Can't they tell how old the blood in the vehicle is? When LE first inspected and took it, wouldn't tests be able to show whether it was recent blood or older?

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.pjstar.com/free/x1852610107/Missing-Illinois-boys-blood-found-in-SUV-backseat

By JOSHUA FREED
The Associated Press
Posted Aug 11, 2011 @ 03:20 PM

AURORA, Ill. — Aurora police searching for a 6-year-old boy whose mother committed suicide said Thursday that forensic testing found Timmothy Pitzen's blood in the backseat of the woman's vehicle.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Can't they tell how old the blood in the vehicle is? When LE first inspected and took it, wouldn't tests be able to show whether it was recent blood or older?

This is absurd. (or they just aren't telling us, which also makes no sense if they told us this much). Did someone LOOK for blood or anything the day they found the car? Wasn't it investigated then?

 

[LongTallTexan]

I've always said this wasn't planned.....it was VERY planned. She made arrangements and met with someone, I would say close to the Iowa border....she had contacts there as well b/c she was from there. The first trip on Feb 18 her trip from the Dixon toll and back took about 4 hrs and 13 mins, the second trip on Mar 20 took 5 hrs and 43 mins....1 1/2 hours longer. She wasn't just driving to a spot and turning around, it seems as though she was meeting with someone. I wonder if Timmothy was with her either of those trips? Was he intoduced to some new "friends"?

Also the first trip took her 44 mins from the Dekalb toll to Dixon....all other times it took her between 23-25 mins to travel 38 minutes. That's a big variance for that short of trip....which means she was speeding and on the first trip she stopped somewhere on the way for about 20 minutes (that's a significant stop) especially if you're speeding(in a hurry).

To dispose of her clothing, cell phone, I-Pass, etc.....she clearly had a plan with the intentions of no one ever finding Timmothy.

My questions....where did she meet people? On-line? Who put her in contact? How were the three trip (Feb, Mar and then lastely May) arranged? Are there more cell phone records?

 

[MarthaM]

This is absurd. (or they just aren't telling us, which also makes no sense if they told us this much). Did someone LOOK for blood or anything the day they found the car? Wasn't it investigated then?

Well, I didn't think it was that outlandish a question. I thought it would make sense to bring it up.

 

[obody]

Well, I didn't think it was that outlandish a question. I thought it would make sense to bring it up.

Your question is not absurd! I think pjessie meant it's absurd that LE can't tell if it was recent blood or not.

 

[obody]

I've been wondering too. Typically if a mother gets to the point (through mental illness or whatever) of believing that her child is better off dead than alive, it seems that the subsequent murder is often as non-violent as possible (i.e. drugging, drowning, etc), not something that would leave blood in a car.

Also, I don't understand why she would go to great lengths to hide him if it was a murder suicide.

 

[MarthaM]

Your question is not absurd! I think pjessie meant it's absurd that LE can't tell if it was recent blood or not.

Oh, duh! I get it now.

And yes, I agree that it's absurd if they don't know by now how old those stains are. And they should have been able to tell right away when they found her vehicle whether they were recent or old stains, I would think, even before any testing was done.

 

[blazelet]

I could agree with you guys on all points except Amy's missing clothes. That really concerns me.

If Timmy is no longer with us and it was Amy's doing, and there was blood involved from that (rather than a nosebleed) then it's possible the clothes had blood on them and she disposed of them to hide what she'd done.

Are there other narratives that explain what happened to her clothes?

 

[LongTallTexan]

Well, I didn't think it was that outlandish a question. I thought it would make sense to bring it up.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I agree with you. You're question is right on...it is absurd that they don't know this and didn't look into this on day 1.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[LongTallTexan]

I could agree with you guys on all points except Amy's missing clothes. That really concerns me.

If Timmy is no longer with us and it was Amy's doing, and there was blood involved from that (rather than a nosebleed) then it's possible the clothes had blood on them and she disposed of them to hide what she'd done.

Are there other narratives that explain what happened to her clothes?

AGREED....she was clearly trying to cover something up, no cell phone, no clothes, no I-Pass transponder.....phone and I-Pass create a trail (if she even thought of that, but it seems she put a LOT of thought into this) but the clothes lead me to believe that there must have been some evidence on them. Very strange.

Wonder what she was wearing when they found her? Where did she get the change of clothes from?

 

[MarthaM]

I think I missed something, or can't remember it.

What are people referring to as far as her clothes? Is it that the clothes she was wearing in the video of them leaving the Dells aren't what she wearing when she was found, and they weren't in her room at the hotel or in her car?

 

[blazelet]

My understanding in reading it was that the clothes she was wearing when she left the Dells haven't been accounted for.

 

[blazelet]

Police seek leads about missing boy last seen in Waupaca


http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110813/APC0101/108130534/Police-seek-leads-missing-boy

Police in Aurora, Ill., are searching for 6-year-old Timothy Pitzen, who authorities say may have been seen in Waupaca on Wednesday.

Waupaca? That's in far NE Wisconsin.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110813/APC0101/108130534/Police-seek-leads-missing-boy

12:20 AM, Aug. 13, 2011

Police in Aurora, Ill., are searching for 6-year-old Timothy Pitzen, who authorities say may have been seen in Waupaca on Wednesday

 

[obody]

I could agree with you guys on all points except Amy's missing clothes. That really concerns me.

If Timmy is no longer with us and it was Amy's doing, and there was blood involved from that (rather than a nosebleed) then it's possible the clothes had blood on them and she disposed of them to hide what she'd done.

Are there other narratives that explain what happened to her clothes?

Whatever she did seems so well planned. Yes I can see her ditching her clothes due to evidence. But blood in the car, if it was from that day, seems like a major oversight.

And I still wonder why she would go to such lengths to hide the murder portion of a murder suicide.

 

[MarthaM]

Police seek leads about missing boy last seen in Waupaca


http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110813/APC0101/108130534/Police-seek-leads-missing-boy



Waupaca? That's in far NE Wisconsin.

That's an unexpected development, although we know these sightings aren't always reliable. But still...

There are a lot of summer cottages in that area. It's not a tourist spot on the level of the Dells or Minocqua or Door County, but people from other states and elsewhere in WI do have summer places there.

 

[Cubby]

Wow. This is the key part of the article for me:



That actually makes me think it's more likely that he's still alive and that his mother was arranging something with someone out in that area. Of course, it's 'what' the something is and 'who' the someone is that are the big questions.

It would seem that she was planning this for a while, took a Timmothy on a 'farewell' trip, and then went ahead with plans she had set up over the winter.

I have to respectfully disagree. I have been following the Leiby Kletzky case and learning a little more about being criminally insane. I am in no way comparing Amy to Levy Aron, however I wonder if an accident occured while Amy was in a state of mania. Amy suffering some kind of mental illness is undisputed. It was a hot day, the first hot day after weeks of unseasonably cold weather. Easy to see how a mother would want to play hooky with her child and enjoy a beautiful day.

Easy to see (for me), how an accident could have taken Timmy's life. how Amy could have panicked spending several hours to hide him in a place she felt comfortable he would never be found. She could not live with notifying anyone about this accident, her family included, chosing instead to end her own life and take that secret with her.

A noticably dirty car and undercarriage of the car tells us without doubt she was driving off road.

I wish we knew more about the searches LE conducted. Have they sent divers in any lakes, ponds, streams or rivers in the area's Amy was known to have driven? Have fliers gone out, or classified ads gone out to those who would be utilizing the area's she was known to travel for recreational purposes? Has any equipment been used to local possible graves? Have groups like Texas Equusearch and Necrosearch International been utilized to search for Timmy? http://www.necrosearch.com/ (at least in the area's mom was known to travel.)


As for LE locating 'concerning' amounts of blood in the back seat of moms SUV? Was this fresh uncleaned blood? or blood that had been cleaned up? I don't beleive blood can be forensically dated so to speak. LE can determine based on the amount of blood and pattern of blood if the person was likely not to have survived...

If Timmy is no longer with us he still needs to be found. I know nothing about hunting, but I think it is imperative for LE to make sure (if family is not utilizing any of the NFP organizations for the missing) that those utilizing these area's for various recreational purposes know to look for the items/toys/backpack... and sadly, possibly remains.

Timmy is missing and needs to be found.
Where are you Timmy?


jmo

 

[Cubby]

I've always said this wasn't planned.....it was VERY planned. She made arrangements and met with someone, I would say close to the Iowa border....she had contacts there as well b/c she was from there. The first trip on Feb 18 her trip from the Dixon toll and back took about 4 hrs and 13 mins, the second trip on Mar 20 took 5 hrs and 43 mins....1 1/2 hours longer. She wasn't just driving to a spot and turning around, it seems as though she was meeting with someone. I wonder if Timmothy was with her either of those trips? Was he intoduced to some new "friends"?

Also the first trip took her 44 mins from the Dekalb toll to Dixon....all other times it took her between 23-25 mins to travel 38 minutes. That's a big variance for that short of trip....which means she was speeding and on the first trip she stopped somewhere on the way for about 20 minutes (that's a significant stop) especially if you're speeding(in a hurry).

To dispose of her clothing, cell phone, I-Pass, etc.....she clearly had a plan with the intentions of no one ever finding Timmothy.

My questions....where did she meet people? On-line? Who put her in contact? How were the three trip (Feb, Mar and then lastely May) arranged? Are there more cell phone records?

The difference in travel times could have been traffic or weather related. If it is raining or snowing traffic would move much slower. West of the metro Chicago area, the area's of any EW tollway are going to be going through cornfields and open farm land. Lots of snow drifts.... and the roads are not as easy to keep clear. Once people get west of Aurora there is only a little more developed communities until it is just farm land.

I haven't checked the weather for the dates she was known to travel. I think wunderground, is the site which lists all the historical weather data.

I also wonder if she either had to travel this route for work, or she had a doctor or group therapy she was attending which she didn't share with anyone.

I hope LE has subpeona'd her medical and work records, in addition to just relying on what family knows or doesn't know.

ETA: We had a major blizzard around February 3rd. We had snow drifts 5' high and piles of plowed snow 2 stories high. This snow would have still been there and not melted when Amy took her February road trip.

 

[Cubby]

Whatever she did seems so well planned. Yes I can see her ditching her clothes due to evidence. But blood in the car, if it was from that day, seems like a major oversight.

And I still wonder why she would go to such lengths to hide the murder portion of a murder suicide.

Maybe she ditched her clothes because they had Timmy's blood on them?

I don't see the blood evidence as a major oversight. I've lived in the Chicago area all my life, and ALL of NE IL LE keeps everything close to the vest 99.5% of the time. I see this not as being new info to LE, just newly released to the public.

jmo