Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[Charlot123]

Just wondering along with you. Could it have been something as simple as the initial sketch appearing so young, and the voice recording (which LE would have, even if they only released it later) seeming so much older? That, combined with the blurry video image also appearing older (as the original age description of OBG indicated) could have led to discarding the initial sketch, if so, a foolish mistake. LE are human and do the best they can, but maybe it was not something as significant as an alibi, but just heading off in the wrong direction because of things they thought they heard of saw, age-wise. Just my opinion. MOO

I don't know if it was a foolish mistake; a mistake, but only too logical. They should have not totally discarded the possibility, but it is hindsight. A mistake easily made, thought; I think in cases like this, once they determined it was a SA, they were looking for prior offenders in the area (logical). And then someone saw OBG who likely resembled one, so they went that route. Logically, if a young child is killed near the home/in the home, you suspect family members first; likewise, if there is a SA coming from (probably) unknown person, and most killers would not know the attacked (statistics), they are looking for people with prior convictions for such things. So an alibi provided by a trusted person would be trusted in this situation. I mean, we all want Harry Holes who think out-of-the-box, but IRL, there are simply dozens or more of possible suspects and few witnesses, so the police tries to think logically, I guess. The chance of YBG being the offender was probably super low in their mind, as statistically, he did not quite fit the expectations; so they went with OBG, and realized their mistake much later. I hope they can do something with the information now.

 

[Charlot123]

I’ve wondered about hunting too. The Delphi trail system ends before the Monon High bridge, which we know was at one time a railway bridge. What of the abandoned railway bed that heads eastward toward the rural area? It would seem that parking off that little road that runs beneath the bridge provides access to the SE end of the bridge, but also for fishing on the river and maybe even rabbit hunting along the abandoned railway bed. Because I vaguely recall someone posting here early on that it wasn’t unusual to see cars parked along the side of that narrow road in the past but now it’s gated and posted as private, although I have no way of knowing if that’s true.

It seems rabbit hunting is legal on abandoned railway beds in other areas within Carroll County.

Carroll County man shot while rabbit hunting

JMO, access from the SE side, as to why nobody seen this guy is just as plausible as him boldly walking through the trail system to the bridge in disguise, now that we know Carter didn’t say the suspect was the driver of the car parked at the abandoned building.

"Officer Jarred Coffing determined the three hunters were legally hunting and were wearing the required orange clothing."

So for the hunters, it would be required to wear orange clothing? If the BG were planning to hunt, would he not do so, too?

 

[MistyWaters]

"Officer Jarred Coffing determined the three hunters were legally hunting and were wearing the required orange clothing."

So for the hunters, it would be required to wear orange clothing? If the BG were planning to hunt, would he not do so, too?

I think someone who murders innocent girls has no moral boundaries which includes no respect for the law. But in a possible hunting scenario, especially if his vehicle was parked on the road underneath the SE end of the bridge he would’ve had ample opportunity to ditch any bright orange clothing before advancing onto the bridge from that end, upon spotting the girls on the bridge. JMO

 

[Boxer]

"Officer Jarred Coffing determined the three hunters were legally hunting and were wearing the required orange clothing."

So for the hunters, it would be required to wear orange clothing? If the BG were planning to hunt, would he not do so, too?

Agree. Doesn't look like a hunter to me. To me he always looked like machinist on lunch break - except his thin legs told a different story. Now that BG is supposed to be younger, I would say he might be dressed up in Dad's clothes.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't know if it was a foolish mistake; a mistake, but only too logical. They should have not totally discarded the possibility, but it is hindsight. A mistake easily made, thought; I think in cases like this, once they determined it was a SA, they were looking for prior offenders in the area (logical). And then someone saw OBG who likely resembled one, so they went that route. Logically, if a young child is killed near the home/in the home, you suspect family members first; likewise, if there is a SA coming from (probably) unknown person, and most killers would not know the attacked (statistics), they are looking for people with prior convictions for such things. So an alibi provided by a trusted person would be trusted in this situation. I mean, we all want Harry Holes who think out-of-the-box, but IRL, there are simply dozens or more of possible suspects and few witnesses, so the police tries to think logically, I guess. The chance of YBG being the offender was probably super low in their mind, as statistically, he did not quite fit the expectations; so they went with OBG, and realized their mistake much later. I hope they can do something with the information now.

I thought it’s interesting the suspect in the first sketch was described as being in his 40s to 50s. Now the new sketch, a shift, someone in their 20s to 30s. So even if that doesn’t pan out, LE must have a huge collection of POIs - white males, aged 20s to 50s, 180 to 220 lbs, 5’6” to 5’10”, reddish-brown hair, eye colour unknown.

 

[tresir2012]

In one of the early videos (not sure which one) there was a tree stand shown. I believe it was on the same side of the creek that the girls were found. The person shooting the video was following a path.

There are pics of the tree stand in the image thread.

@Charlot123

I think he has a gun in his right jacket pocket. This was discussed a lot in the image thread and was analysed even down to what make IIRC. This link takes you to the middle of the gun discussion in the image thread. If you want to see the deer stand then go forward to post 1122 in that image thread. I just did some searches to find them for anyone interested.

IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

Someone also mentioned RSO's and I recall they checked all local ones early on. I now wonder if they ruled someone out that they are having a rethink about. MOO

 

[crhedBngr]

And I cannot think of any reason why LE wouldn’t have searched that property. There is so very little public knowledge about this case as it stands, why do you think we would be privy to that?

Agreed. I couldn't find anything in MSM stating LE had searched the old CPS building.

 

[Charlot123]

I thought it’s interesting the suspect in the first sketch was described as being in his 40s to 50s. Now the new sketch, a shift, someone in their 20s to 30s. So even if that doesn’t pan out, LE must have a huge collection of POIs - white males, aged 20s to 50s, 180 to 220 lbs, 5’6” to 5’10”, reddish-brown hair, eye colour unknown.

Basically, everyone living in Delphi or its environs...

But seriously, if one looks at all serial killers, and the hunt for them, and the incorrect assumptions the LEs made, maybe, the explanation is simple? In most times, there is a list of people who would fit the profile, psychologically, and the real perp is somewhere in the middle of the list?

Here is one case that is heart-breaking. Early Tip Fell Short in Green River Killings

One question is, are our laws making the job for the police harder?

Another question is, Gary Ridgeway passed the polygraph several times. How?

 

[Boxer]

And this is the question I'd like to get an answer about.

Balaclava won't let us anywhere as it is generic. Too many people wear them. Likewise, a scarf. Purdue shirt? Sorry, I don't see it. But I would like to know if anyone thinks there is a gun in his pocket and if so, which pocket, right or left? There are self-admitted hunters here, ex-military people, does anyone see a gun?

MOO he has a deep grip handgun like
a Glock or 45 ACP in his right pocket.

 

[Backstroke10]

Basically, everyone living in Delphi or its environs...

But seriously, if one looks at all serial killers, and the hunt for them, and the incorrect assumptions the LEs made, maybe, the explanation is simple? In most times, there is a list of people who would fit the profile, psychologically, and the real perp is somewhere in the middle of the list?

Here is one case that is heart-breaking. Early Tip Fell Short in Green River Killings

One question is, are our laws making the job for the police harder?

Another question is, Gary Ridgeway passed the polygraph several times. How?

Thanks for sharing. What an interesting article. That family did such great detective work and to have it basically ignored is so sad. A lot of deaths could have been prevented. Heartbreaking.

 

[BradB]

There is a possibility these killings were on impulse as well. Maybe he was going through something, a death, his woman cheated on him, something was going on and he took his anger out on innocent girls.

 

[TL4S]

I think someone who murders innocent girls has no moral boundaries which includes no respect for the law. But in a possible hunting scenario, especially if his vehicle was parked on the road underneath the SE end of the bridge he would’ve had ample opportunity to ditch any bright orange clothing before advancing onto the bridge from that end, upon spotting the girls on the bridge. JMO

It makes sense to put him on the road below the SE end of the bridge, but would he be able to see the girls from there? That's the biggest question in my mind...where was he when he spotted the girls.

Was he already on the trail when he saw them? Was he driving W 300 N and saw them dropped off? Was he parked at a location along W 300 N and saw them dropped off? Was he parked on the road below the SE end of the bridge and was walking or something in the woods?

Each answer offers an entirely different perspective of BG. The reason he was in the vicinity and the direction he was heading all play into it, IMO.

 

[x_files]

I, too, have questions...

Ted Bundy, very likely, started killing much earlier than he stated - some say, as a young teenager. If true, and likely, it is true, then his gf’s abandoning him was maybe have not even served as the provoking factor, although it did shape the choice of future victims. I believe that his biggest narcissistic rage was the fact that he planned to advance, in law and politics, but law school proved difficult as he had to compete with pretty smart people. So soon he stopped going to school, got bored, and reverted to his favorite pass time.

At least, as it is known now, Bundy had severe mental illness on mother’s side - both maternal grandfather and grandmother were severely mentally ill. About the father, not much is known. His mental illness was neither diagnosed nor treated in time. Another interesting thing, there is not a single male friend in his life, so all these terms routinely used for him, “social”, “charismatic”, may be slightly off-mark. He presented well, initially, and he had high IQ, so he “passed” as social.

As to GRK, well, he “likes to talk with women”, as his interviewer said, but what would you say about his poor eye contact? He is an odd man; his IQ was 92 and he barely made it through school, yet he did well in the Navy and at work, was his low IQ merely some isolated learning disability? Unlike Bundy, who spoke of women as of beautiful things, GRK saw women as objects, only full of avarice and having secondary, financial, gain.
It is true that he preferred prostitutes, but it was his known area. Again, he probably killed more than we know, so maybe, not only prostitutes.

I think BG has relationship issues; whether targets are “revenge”, or he expects younger subjects to be “pliable”, is unclear. (The fact that the girls put on a fight enraged him, so maybe he is after young and passive targets?). Strictly MOO.

The comfort zone means he definitely knows it well. Grew up there?

Do you happen to know what mental illness ran in Bundy's maternal side of his family? Curious.
I think if Bundy wasn't a malignant narcissist he would have done well in Law school, but his ego wouldn't tolerate any criticism, only wanted to be praised.
College isn't going to praise you for mediocre work. They demand the best unless you are wealthy enough to let it slide.

Is it possible BG isn't a serial killer? Not yet, or ever will be?
Would LOVE to know what the FBI profilers think. But we'll have to wait, I guess.

Is he more like Bundy, has a social life? or more like GRK, low IQ, poor social skills?

 

[x_files]

I was thinking about this case over the holiday weekend like many of you I'm sure.

I posted a article a while back (its there somewhere) about a witness who claims to have seen BG that day on the trail. She said he was wearing a scarf.

I know many have seen different things, respirators and so on but I'm looking at the BG video and I believe he may be wearing a scarf.

Anyone else see this. And if this is true than that witness may be the one who also initially provided the details for the YBG sketch.

Just MO of course.

I think the white thing we are all seeing might be part of a scarf pattern. Purdue University scarf perhaps? A large P?

 

[x_files]

I thought so, too. Then I read about Ted Bundy and GRK’s cases, and especially, Chikatilo’s case. Even the recent JC case. In hindsight, it is easy to criticize the police, or say, “what were they even thinking?” But I don’t think we would have acted any better.
Most serial killers are of average intellect, however, when they become known, they already have committed a few crimes so they perfect their skills. They have the advantage of thinking about it day and night, of planning. And mainly, on the day of the disappearance in Delphi, and the next day, the police reaction was probably catastrophic one. I read about major catastrophes, war- and nuclear- related, and there, too, initially, lots and lots of mistakes were made. Later, people learned. My explanation- our brains are simply easily overwhelmed in cases of catastrophes, unless you are constantly trained to deal with them, but such killings constitute 1% of all crimes, so police is surely not trained for them, it is not daily occurrence.
And then the burnout. This is psychological, but a powerful factor. DC and his team have been on it for two years, and their own burnout might slow down things significantly. It is not criticism, lots and lots of books have been written about professional burnout. The fact that in free time he watches movies like “Shack” does not look positive to me, as it is locks his mind in tragic crime. I would send Delphi police to vacation, one by one, and forbid to think of the case for a week, this could probably help.
ETA. Most psychological profiles are not precise, as people making them don’t think like the killers do.

Serial killers have an advantage they do NOT have to follow any laws or rules! LE does! They may know WHO BG is but cannot arrest just yet...waiting...

 

[Andreee]

Agree. Doesn't look like a hunter to me. To me he always looked like machinist on lunch break - except his thin legs told a different story. Now that BG is supposed to be younger, I would say he might be dressed up in Dad's clothes.

And re. the time of day, what local industry/work sites are in the area and times of shifts and breaks is something that would be of interest to LE. BG IMO must be in fairly good shape to catch up with the girls across that distance on a high up bridge, so I'm guessing younger. His pants do look loose and the jacket too for his stature. Some kind of white object around his neck but not gonna help LE much IMO.

 

[x_files]

Basically, everyone living in Delphi or its environs...

But seriously, if one looks at all serial killers, and the hunt for them, and the incorrect assumptions the LEs made, maybe, the explanation is simple? In most times, there is a list of people who would fit the profile, psychologically, and the real perp is somewhere in the middle of the list?

Here is one case that is heart-breaking. Early Tip Fell Short in Green River Killings

One question is, are our laws making the job for the police harder?

Another question is, Gary Ridgeway passed the polygraph several times. How?

My guess he passed because he can control his heart rate, or doesn't get unnerved easily, hence he makes the perfect psychopath.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

There is a possibility these killings were on impulse as well. Maybe he was going through something, a death, his woman cheated on him, something was going on and he took his anger out on innocent girls.

Perhaps he had a major change of jobs that prevented him from doing what he loved to do? Maybe he experienced a workplace injury that prevented him from following the career path he had trained for?

 

[Andreee]

deleted (repeat)

 

[BigTexas]

Perhaps he had an ailment early in his life that limited his interactions with other children because not many children understood his illness. Or that illness could have affected the job he does now, and, down deep, he doesn't want to do it. But one reason he feels like it is because dad is in the trade so there would be guilt there if he were to branch into something that he would have loved more. MOO