Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[California Sunset]

Hello, First post ever so please bear with me. I signed up for WS a couple of years ago and then life got busy. I recently listened to the Down the Hill podcast and it has made this case a bit of an obsession again so I decided to come on here and read about other opinions and theories. I have been doing my best to catch up on this thread and have found the info provided as well as your ideas and theories very interesting. I have a couple of opinions of my own I wanted the share and see if these have come up before...
1) I have seen mention that Libby took the brunt of the attack. I wonder if Abby was BG's intended target and Libby was fighting like hell to save her from what was going to happen.
2) Since I first heard the 2nd release of the voice recording with "Guys" added 2 things have stuck with me. First is that "Guys" is a term that would often be used by someone you know. It is very informal if you will. Second is that there is something in the tone when he says, "Guys" that has always given me the impression that perhaps the girls were trying to figure out a way out of the situation or whispering to each other and he was getting them back on track with his plan sort of like, "Guys...c'mon". I know it is one word and it is difficult to explain exactly what I mean but it has always struck me that way.
Both are just my opinion.
Anyway, thanks for reading. I hope I did this right.

Welcome to the discussion.

I suppose the 'guys' thing depends on where in the country you live/are from. Like Y'all or you all. You don't really hear of that phrase in the northeast, as far as I know. However, in Texas? But when you talk about "Guys....c'mon" I think I know exactly what you mean. Sort of said in a tone of frustration? maybe. However it struck you, it struck you, and it's a valid point and may present a clue. Something in his tone, or the way he said it.

 

[Alphafuzz]

I saw a YouTube video from one year ago asking CeCe Moore the noted genealogist to do familial DNA and phenotyping on the Delphi case. She commented that she would be interested in helping if LE asked her. The owner of the channel responded that it would be great but it didn't seem to go the extra step of connecting the two but who knows. I've been quietly hoping for this because like he said I don't want to see this take thirty years like poor little April Tinsley and I'd been batting around thoughts that the testing might have already happened and that it is what changed the direction of the sketch and LE focus. The recent flood of cases being solved is giving me great hope. I hope that in the near future these will be common LE tools.

 

[California Sunset]

I used to live a couple of hours away from there. Not familiar with Delphi at all but to me he sounds typical of Northern Indiana, Illinois, Southern Michigan. Mid-western. I also think he's not a teenager. IMO
I have only recently become aware of this case. I'm sure it's been discussed and dissected to the nth degree and I won't / can't say anything new. But what a shame this heinous crime has not been solved.

How do you know you won't/can't say anything new? You might break the case. You never know.

 

[Brubon]

With Indiana Packers processing 17,300 pigs per day....swine is brought in from all over the country.......not just from the nearby pig farmers. MOO

 

[HOPE770145]

yea, hmm, so he could be a truck driver that delivers pigs to be slaughtered, so how many hog farms are there over there with truck drivers that drive them? I would venture out to say he is or was married, probably kids, quiet guy, has issues maintaining a relationship with a woman, mother issues, has had relationship issues especially before during and after the murders, I agree could be a truck driver or farmer JMO

With Indiana Packers processing 17,300 pigs per day....swine is brought in from all over the country.......not just from the nearby pig farmers. MOO

He knew the trails. He's from Delphi MHO.

 

[Alphafuzz]

Addressing people as "Guys" or "Hey, Guys" is fairly common where I grew up but the context I can only place it in is a gym coach or teacher getting kids attention. Casual authority. Get kids attention by speaking like you are more on their level. I remember in the movie The Breakfast Club set in Illinois the teacher running detention refers to the students that way to get their attention.

 

[HOPE770145]

Northwest, Washington, D.C. The Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU) is a department of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC) that uses behavioral analysts to assist in criminal investigations.
I hope they took a look at it.

 

[California Sunset]

If the killer is the guy on the bridge, the BG, I can not call him weak. He took a risk of abducting two teenagers from a bridge in broad daylight, and murdering them - either immediately, and if not immediately, then bringing them back later. It is all risky.

I think he has two traits. One, he is... how to even say... for him murdering people who somehow stand in his way would be the easiest solution to a problem. Usually it is the opposite way, and not only because of morality, maybe out of fear, too. People usually try to exhaust peaceful ways of negotiating. Even Italian Mafia, if Mario Puzo is to be believed, tried to "reason" with the person first, and only then kill, if reasoning would not work.

It could be modern mafia, god knows how they think. But I still believe that "teenage" factor is frowned upon even among them. Unless they feel "dissed" by the young women (also a factor to be considered).

Or it is the person whose thinking pattern is very odd? He enjoys killing, and he probably enjoys "problem solving" that involves killings.

He is not lazy - it takes a lot of time and energy to plan and execute.

I wonder if there is a good psychological portrait of him. I am not asking myself where he lives. I assume he could live anywhere. But - what are his hobbies? They all say, hunting and fishing, outdoorsy activity. I bet he likes to play games, but are these puzzles, board games or computer games? I bet he is a collector, but what does he collect? Is he like Eric Harris, very nice-looking, polite, even, a former gifted kid with undiagnosed mood disorder, who is totally psychotic inside but able to pull himself together for the spectators? Or is he more detached and odd?

At this, professionally, it does not imply "a trained murderer". I have read about long-term executioners, who did not enjoy their jobs (doing it very well at this), and ended up committing suicide. No, it is just a personal pattern of thinking.

I wish we could find out, one day. Because it is all in the genes...

Do you think he got angry enough to kill them because they 'dissed' him? Do you think he found them lacking in respect for him and that's what infuriated him and prompted him to kill them? Kind of like, 'oh, you think I'm a wuss, well, I'll show you', that sort of thing?
That sounds plausible to me.
Did they diss him longterm or do you think it was more spur of the moment? Just asking for your opinion/impression.

 

[California Sunset]

Northwest, Washington, D.C. The Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU) is a department of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC) that uses behavioral analysts to assist in criminal investigations.
I hope they took a look at it.

The headquarters for the BAU is located in Quantico, Virginia. Quoted from Wikipedia, and other sources. I don't know how long the BAU has been at Quantico, but I know the FBI moved things around due to lack of space.

 

[Falling Down]

With Indiana Packers processing 17,300 pigs per day....swine is brought in from all over the country.......not just from the nearby pig farmers. MOO

That and a trucker servicing that facility might know maybe a few back roads around there, and the fact that the highway (IN 25) had been put through in 2014.

Prior to 2014, what is now Old 25 and U.S. 421 were the only real roads through there that truckers from outside the area would know. The newer highway resembles an interstate, I drove it through there in 2017, and it's a nice road.

IP has been there for decades. Lots of people know where IP is located, but even if they've say serviced that facility they may not know Delphi, especially truckers who know IP since late 2014, and truckers who simply came up 421 and then left the same way for years before the highway was put through.

I-65 would be the nearest major interstate, but you have to get off of it for a short drive to the IP plant.

Good post @Brubon

 

[California Sunset]

Covid-19 has delayed a lot of court cases that would have started in the past few months. Maybe there's one on the docket in that area of Carroll County that could fit your senario?

I'd hazard a guess that you know the answer to that better than me. You've probably been at this awhile, and I haven't reviewed the prior information, while you were probably actively participating. Best Wishes.

 

[California Sunset]

What if Libby was playing a detective? Tried to catch a local pedophile, maybe a group? If she had some experience with chat rooms, she could have guessed that the person was older than a teenage boy. And she tried to set him up and expose. Dangerously naive, but she was fourteen.

That could have made BG livid.

That sounds possible to me. It also sounds like something that would tick off that type of predator.
Years ago, I know the kids in particular chats, especially after school, knew the SNs of others, maybe from being there a lot or being from the same school. I was in one earlier in the day than usual and was surprised to discover the room full of teenagers. Some of the chats (back then) were named for cities, Chicago, New York, Boston, Dallas, San Francisco, etc. I was so new to things that I didn't know how AIM or AOL worked. I was computer challenged, but I eventually got it.

 

[Andreee]

Do you think he got angry enough to kill them because they 'dissed' him? Do you think he found them lacking in respect for him and that's what infuriated him and prompted him to kill them? Kind of like, 'oh, you think I'm a wuss, well, I'll show you', that sort of thing?
That sounds plausible to me.
Did they diss him longterm or do you think it was more spur of the moment? Just asking for your opinion/impression.

I think it was spur of the moment, only because the 2 girls had decided on just that morning to go to the bridge, according to reports. I do not think they had arranged to meet him either, due to the concern they had about a strange man (not exact words of course, but just from what was reported). I do find it interesting that this guy was hanging around that bridge on that particular day though, like he had the day off in conjunction with the school; or knew there would be kids off school so maybe he knew that young teens go there or something.

 

[sunshineray]

I saw a YouTube video from one year ago asking CeCe Moore the noted genealogist to do familial DNA and phenotyping on the Delphi case. She commented that she would be interested in helping if LE asked her. The owner of the channel responded that it would be great but it didn't seem to go the extra step of connecting the two but who knows. I've been quietly hoping for this because like he said I don't want to see this take thirty years like poor little April Tinsley and I'd been batting around thoughts that the testing might have already happened and that it is what changed the direction of the sketch and LE focus. The recent flood of cases being solved is giving me great hope. I hope that in the near future these will be common LE tools.

If it's the article I'm thinking of she mentions being asked to teach her methods to different LE including the FBI. Then there was the RadarOnline article in Jan 2019 where Sheriff Leazenby was quoted...

“We sent more evidence to the FBI at Quantico just before Christmas,” Sheriff Leazenby told Radar in an exclusive interview and said they were doing “DNA testing research,” with regards to the case."

It was discussed that it might be those same methods being done that CeCe Moore used in the Tinsley case.

 

[Charlot123]

I saw a YouTube video from one year ago asking CeCe Moore the noted genealogist to do familial DNA and phenotyping on the Delphi case. She commented that she would be interested in helping if LE asked her. The owner of the channel responded that it would be great but it didn't seem to go the extra step of connecting the two but who knows. I've been quietly hoping for this because like he said I don't want to see this take thirty years like poor little April Tinsley and I'd been batting around thoughts that the testing might have already happened and that it is what changed the direction of the sketch and LE focus. The recent flood of cases being solved is giving me great hope. I hope that in the near future these will be common LE tools.

@Alphafuzz,

I returned back to this thread only because I had read that there was the possibility of LE contracting the Parabon about the DNA in the Delphi case. They are not following on it because they don’t know of genetic genealogy. And they did not need the owner of the channel’s introduction. Something else must be standing in their way. Since I have been here, there was 2019 PC, Paul Holes who spoke about Delphi murders, so it is not that there is no chance to do it. Sometimes I think it is a stalemate, sometimes, that LE has one winning move but doesn’t see it.

 

[Alphafuzz]

If it's the article I'm thinking of she mentions being asked to teach her methods to different LE including the FBI. Then there was the RadarOnline article in Jan 2019 where Sheriff Leazenby was quoted...

“We sent more evidence to the FBI at Quantico just before Christmas,” Sheriff Leazenby told Radar in an exclusive interview and said they were doing “DNA testing research,” with regards to the case."

It was discussed that it might be those same methods being done that CeCe Moore used in the Tinsley case.

It was actually from a channel called Michael Katt. The video is called "CeCe Moore Delphi Indiana Needs Your Help!!" He has been making observations about the case for a while and this was a direct plea to her to which she responded positively. I hope something comes of it. Im really glad to hear they sent more evidence. Let's hope for the best. Thanks for posting the information.

 

[Alphafuzz]

@Alphafuzz,

I returned back to this thread only because I had read that there was the possibility of LE contracting the Parabon about the DNA in the Delphi case. They are not following on it because they don’t know of genetic genealogy. And they did not need the owner of the channel’s introduction. Something else must be standing in their way. Since I have been here, there was 2019 PC, Paul Holes who spoke about Delphi murders, so it is not that there is no chance to do it. Sometimes I think it is a stalemate, sometimes, that LE has one winning move but doesn’t see it.

Perhaps they are sitting on the winning move and it's a matter of timing as in something has to fall into place so they have a rock solid case before making the arrest. They may know all already.

 

[California Sunset]

That and a trucker servicing that facility might know maybe a few back roads around there, and the fact that the highway (IN 25) had been put through in 2014.

Prior to 2014, what is now Old 25 and U.S. 421 were the only real roads through there that truckers from outside the area would know. The newer highway resembles an interstate, I drove it through there in 2017, and it's a nice road.

IP has been there for decades. Lots of people know where IP is located, but even if they've say serviced that facility they may not know Delphi, especially truckers who know IP since late 2014, and truckers who simply came up 421 and then left the same way for years before the highway was put through.

I-65 would be the nearest major interstate, but you have to get off of it for a short drive to the IP plant.

Good post @Brubon

My dad drove truck off and on for years. He's the one that taught me the back roads all over the place, even places he's likely never been. I would hazard a guess that many truckers learn the back roads, some to avoid rush hour traffic on the highways, some looking for ways to the places they make deliveries or schedule pickups. Gosh, we did surveillance on a trucking place once because someone was taking off with the loaded trailers left over the weekend or overnight. There was no way there but the back roads.

 

[California Sunset]

I think it was spur of the moment, only because the 2 girls had decided on just that morning to go to the bridge, according to reports. I do not think they had arranged to meet him either, due to the concern they had about a strange man (not exact words of course, but just from what was reported). I do find it interesting that this guy was hanging around that bridge on that particular day though, like he had the day off in conjunction with the school; or knew there would be kids off school so maybe he knew that young teens go there or something.

I think you're probably correct. He might have been 'fishing' or 'hunting'. Do you think he went after the girls specifically 'them' or because they were the ones that were there? Maybe he was there to see who he could find.

 

[California Sunset]

I'm a Michigan girl and I've lived all over. I have a pretty good ear for accents. I can almost always tell Northwestern Illinois, Western Ohio, Michigan, and even Ontario, Canada as we all have a nasal sounding a. I have no idea what people from Indiana sound like other than clips I've heard but based on those I didn't catch anything distinctive. I don't think we hear enough words from BG to tell much. I can tell you he's probably not from the Pittsburgh area. Nearly everyone there says down like dahn. Its very distinctive. If I venture a guess I'd say he's from that part of Indiana based on the fact that he sounds like the people I've heard regarding this case.

Hmmmm, I don't know what to say other than in my experience, Chicago/Wisconsin/Upstate New York all sound the same to me. Western Massachusetts sounds similar to this accent, to me. Western Mass doesn't have the same accent as Eastern Mass/Boston. I'm former military, and a linguist. I lost most of my accent in language school, and living all over. But some people that pay attention can figure out where I grew up. Pittsburgh does not have the same accent as Wisconsin/Chicago/Illinois. I don't remember much about Michigan, but yeah, Indiana has that too. It's a lake accent, I think. It goes along the southern Great Lakes. I don't know how it compares to the states south of those.