Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[HOPE770145]

This is the problem LE face. There can be all kinds of red flags but actual evidence is still required to prove beyond reasonable doubt the accused was responsible for murdering two teens....aside from the fact he may indeed be a domestic abuser, possesses a whole waft of guns and be known as a hot-head by some. There are a lot of them out there for sure but that’s not enough to either predict or convict of murder. If it were a lot of calm, cool-headed, devious murderers would be walking free because of wrongful convictions.

people in these situations need to voice it to the police and press charges, need to value themselves and protect themselves and others, all in all, we live in communities and we are responsible for one another, there needs to be more connection between people and understanding and value of life, the community is important and protecting the people in it is very important, sometimes if they dont think of themselves as important they should think others deserve to be safe, very sad situation overall

 

[Charlot123]

A horrendous murder spree occurred in Nova Scotia, Canada just over 3 weeks ago, 22 people lost their lives. The cold-blooded perpetrator was a 51 year-old businessman who owned a company that made dentures.

Based on that I’ve concluded it’s forever more impossible for me to predict the occupation of any murderer.

Ha! And Steve Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter? Rich, really well-off, a loner but not lonely, he had everything, money, property, a beautiful companion, education, guts. Two prior marriage, on good terms with exes. I think no single factor can explain why the heck he opened the shooting. Age-wise, he was an outlier.
No one can explain.

 

[Charlot123]

he wont commit suicide he is a psychopath, unless he does it with a lot of people around to take with him, theyre void of feeling to the degree many of us are, I just feel like there is an old boys club mentality in that town with the way things are going, needs to stop and they need to get on getting on and finish it already

1) social ostracism
2) fear of arrest

I think if the LE goes over own fears, and “what ifs?”, and moves, this is exactly how this case will end. Because in contrast to others, I don’t think he is a coward. He has mental issues, but I don’t feel that he is a coward. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[skoogmagoo]

I agree. We don't know what his profession is. One YouTuber thinks he's an archaeology professor, but most of the professions that have been suggested are blue collar. Even if he's a blue collar worker, he could easily save up for a high-end phone. However, there's no reason to think that he had his phone with him; he probably left it at home.

If BG had a high end phone, his mommy probably bought it for him.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

were there any posts or indications from witnesses of this person leaving that he had scratches on his face or was harmed in any way? wondering how he was able to subdue 2 girls unless he knew them to begin with, other than the fact you think there were 2 POI not just 1

If the girls were unable to scratch him they may have been able to punch or kick him which would leave bruises on his chest, arms, or legs which might not show up until later that day. The bad part is that unless LE had a suspect early on and checked his chest and arms the BG would have been probably healed of the bruises within a few months depending on how big they were.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

If the girls were unable to scratch him they may have been able to punch or kick him which would leave bruises on his chest, arms, or legs which might not show up until later that day. The bad part is that unless LE had a suspect early on and checked his chest and arms the BG would have been probably healed of the bruises within a few months depending on how big they were.

Also I wonder if any of the locals remember a person who wore long pants and long sleeves all the time even when the weather got warm.

 

[sunshineray]

Very good post. What if the other perp were a minor?

MOO, it is my belief LE knows who killed these two girls, and want to nail him.

I believe this also.

 

[sunshineray]

I think he was “consulted”. I wonder if it was a real consultation, though, or merely “going through the motions” because he was so popular, and everyone was saying, “Paul Holes should handle this case”. He said something vague re: “the long road ahead” (about DNA); asked what he’d do differently, said he’d have the public listen to the tape.

I do not know what’s on the audio. My thinking is, likely, two perps, because if the girls were killed where found, the time was limited to leave the scene of crime pristine or strange or whatever. If they were not killed where found, then you probably need two to transport them to the creek. Theoretically, the job for two would be easier, but as I have said to myself, the case probably would blunt the Occam’s razor, so, who knows? I feel that the perps have major mental issues, regardless of the motive, but they need to be named.

Just playing devil's advocate as to why PH would think it would be important to the case for people to hear the tape. It's possible he didn't mean people should hear the horror some think may have been captured. Maybe, like the families were allowed to listen, just hearing the girls being girls would bring home the magnitude like nothing else could. The innocent fun they were having before the devil came. Maybe PH was speaking to this and saying whomever is knowing and not telling, how can you stay silent after listening to these two sweet children enjoying each other and life? God bless Abby and Libby and may justice come soon because someone who should finally comes forward.

 

[HOPE770145]

I find it hard to believe there were 2 people involved. 2 many people loss of control for POI someone would have talked or acted differently by now, and psychopaths have usually controlled freaks so if it was 2 people maybe husband and wife scenario or son father but that's hard for me to believe because I believe the Evansdale may be connected to this also and that was some time ago. JMO I think it's one person if it's 2 it would be a couple.

 

[HOPE770145]

I believe this also.

if the Evansdale murders are connected I find this to be more difficult, father son connection.

 

[Charlot123]

Just playing devil's advocate as to why PH would think it would be important to the case for people to hear the tape. It's possible he didn't mean people should hear the horror some think may have been captured. Maybe, like the families were allowed to listen, just hearing the girls being girls would bring home the magnitude like nothing else could. The innocent fun they were having before the devil came. Maybe PH was speaking to this and saying whomever is knowing and not telling, how can you stay silent after listening to these two sweet children enjoying each other and life? God bless Abby and Libby and may justice come soon because someone who should finally comes forward.

Paul said this in answer to, what would he do differently from DC? He said, have public listen to the audio. Whatever it means.

 

[HOPE770145]

If the girls were unable to scratch him they may have been able to punch or kick him which would leave bruises on his chest, arms, or legs which might not show up until later that day. The bad part is that unless LE had a suspect early on and checked his chest and arms the BG would have been probably healed of the bruises within a few months depending on how big they were.

What about family members. Wives etc. I am hoping someone calls them in. They would have noticed. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Paul said this in answer to, what would he do differently from DC? He said, have public listen to the audio. Whatever it means.

Yes and it would have to be to either hear the horror or the innocence. IMO

 

[Davemac1]

Welcome! No, there has been no reconstructions by LE. Quite early on iirc LE said they’d been in contact with everyone walking on the trail area that day except for the suspect and if so, a reconstruction would be unnecessary because LE would know what any of them saw, or didn’t see.

By not releasing that sort of information, LE is able to vet what they already know against what a potential witness is telling them. I wouldn’t doubt they’ve already received a lot of fabricated and falty-memory tips, a hazard to every investigation and why LE frequently refers to “protecting the integrity of the investigation” by not showing their hand. JMO

Thanks. Appreciate that. Do you think LE know his movements straight after he commited the crime?
I just think it can be surprising sometimes which memories you can invoke by producing a reconstruction.
If for instance they think the perpetrator crossed the Freedom bridge during his escape then that may jog the memory of someone travelling underneath it. Maybe they have evidence of him crossing a field a distance away from the trails. That may jog another memory. The smallest detail can sometimes have huge impacts.
I get that they are trying to preserve info for the good of the possible case but we are now 3+ years down the line. This thing needs a change of tact imo.

 

[Ozoner]

I find it hard to believe there were 2 people involved. 2 many people loss of control for POI someone would have talked or acted differently by now, and psychopaths have usually controlled freaks so if it was 2 people maybe husband and wife scenario or son father but that's hard for me to believe because I believe the Evansdale may be connected to this also and that was some time ago. JMO I think it's one person if it's 2 it would be a couple.

I agree that it's one perp. There's no evidence whatsoever for a second perp.

 

[Starz21]

I don’t think anything has been suggested that makes me believe there were two people involved. As far as LE and the decision to not release any further audio, I think if there was anything to suggest two perps or a minor, they would have said so immediately.

People would have disregarded possible suspects because they were with a minor or another person that day. They would have lost potential tips, especially if it was a minor, and been able to drastically narrow the number of people they had to investigate based on those tips, if they knew suspect was with a minor or another person. It wouldn’t make sense at all imo.

 

[Andreee]

I agree that it's one perp. There's no evidence whatsoever for a second perp.

One perp and I think even LE has mentioned that if I'm not mistaken.

 

[California Sunset]

I did. I even looked up hospitals and medical departments around Delphi. To my surprise, there were enough.

I come from the family of doctors in several generations. And the ones who could not be doctors, because they were uneducated farmers, ended up self-taught vets, so I can observe the traits running through generations. First, they say that about 1/4 of medical school students have OCD, and it makes sense. For the job, it is good. But OCD is tightly linked with the fear of losing control, so think of where it leads you from there.

About surgeons, they have not “God complex”, but “Savior’s complex”. It is different, because this is what probably prompts people to become surgeons, but they can get a chip on the shoulder, too. Your friend’s acquaintance’s husband is extreme, but it is an interesting area to discuss.

I did not mean to offend anyone. I did not mean 'all doctors' or 'all surgeons', I was referring to one in particular who definitely had issues and several others I learned about after I had the discussion with my friend. The total surgeons/doctors under discussion/I later learned about was less than 25 doctors. How many doctors are in this country? I don't even know a doctor in Indiana. But, not all doctors are good. I read about them. No profession consists only of wonderful people. Sorry, but IMO, that's the truth.
I do not generalize, saying 'all people all the time' or 'no one any of the time' or all doctors' or 'all pediatricians'.
I stick to the 'some people some of the time, all people some of the time, none of the people some of the time' but no, not ever all of the people all of the time or none of the people none of the time.
There is one group I'm more likely to generalize and say most of them are horrid, but I don't intend to mention them here.
Have I thoroughly confused everyone/anyone and am I in trouble for this?

I still believe the killer(s) could have come from any profession, IMHO, based on the information available to me. They could have come from no profession. They could have switched jobs and done a variety of things. I have no idea. I've said before, most of you here know more about this than I do. I'm new. We've been on WS a month or less. I'd heard of the murders, superficially, and didn't even realize they were in Indiana when we watched someone's livestream in Delphi. We originally came here only to let you know about the video, then we learned there are at least 100 videos on Libby/Abby/Delphi/Delphi murders.

 

[IceIce9]

One perp and I think even LE has mentioned that if I'm not mistaken.

In this recent (April 29,2020) article, Leazenby says they go back and forth on whether one or more were responsible for the deaths.

“It has not been determined if it was one or more perpetrators.”

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

 

[California Sunset]

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Who, of what level, could have, or need, that much protection? He, or they, are child killers. And who knows how many more people they killed, or will kill? Who can remain their friends, who could open the doors of their houses to these people, who “would give them light”? Why can’t the second perp be accused of merely participating? If it is a group killing, both will end with long prison terms.

I am not vindictive or mean. I personally do not demand “an eye for an eye”, or capital punishment, or mistreatment in prison. They must be named. To me it would be enough if the ashamed murderer commits suicide. I honestly think he should spare the county of spending any money on him. But I believe that the audio has more damning information, and maybe even the motive. Paul Holes said the public should listen to it? Then we should.

I was thinking, maybe there is something about the girls on that audio that their families don’t want the world to know? But my personal feeling is, we shall all understand, and support, because we know the end to the story.

Most of us raise, or raised, kids. We know how they are. Kids make mistakes, kids are impulsive, kids are not perfect. Our role is to protect them, teach them, sometimes learn from own mistakes, but never to kill them.

Two young girls, who will never grow, go to college, become independent, make careers, date, know what motherhood is. Ground their children, even. All their future ended there, on that muddy bank of the creek.

You say, someone knows who this guy is? Who can risk own reputation that much by protecting this useless, sadistic ***, now?

And Ives says he can be caught if he kills again? How many more Abbys or Libbys need to die for the guy to end in prison?

Here's where I get into trouble for not researching before I post. There is a law in effect, I don't know if it's federal or state, or if it's in effect in Indiana if it is state, but if you participate in a homicide, you are guilty of the homicide because you were there when it took place. So, in some cases, even if you didn't kill the person, you are charged with murder also. Who's going to clarify this and correct me?