Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[rainwaterstill]

Well, now, @JDough and @BNA, this topic re: the killer's conscience is a most interesting point, and it is upon this item in particular (all JMOO) -- or a close family member's or friend's conscience -- that this case will be solved.

At one time... in the past (but... Who knows just *how* distant that past? -- the killer *did* have a conscience (MOO), but...in the days and weeks leading up to Feb. 13th, 2017, I believe that he kept pushing his conscience aside, until...finally, he *acted* upon his impulses.

***
In his professional life, the killer is viewed as highly responsible, intelligent, diligent, and...*conscientious*. He is highly esteemed by others for his community service and compassion toward those less fortunate. (All just amateur opinion here.)

***

Now that Abby and Libby are gone (gone, but far from forgotten, to be sure), he wants nothing more than to totally *forget* that day, and the images that are seared upon his thoughts. In his private moments he tries to escape the horror, but...it's impossible. He has few truly "close" friends, and has very few family with whom he's in touch. *They* (MOO, of course) have assured him that they will never, ever "blow his cover", and he *mostly* trusts that their promise to conceal his identity is good, but...every now and then, he... wonders: What *if*? What if I *were* to confess? To admit to this? All of those who know me -- and especially my family...our family's good name of many years will be...totally destroyed. *Can't* do it. Especially now. Been this long...maybe after...after those closest to me have passed away, and they will no longer be hurt, shunned, even rejected by everyone who knows them, and especially so that they avoid the potential risk of being considered complicit, since they know all of this...

All entirely JMOO (though I can truly understand why many here would believe that the killer is utterly remorseless, and that his having such inner conversations sounds so implausible...)

To him (since IMO he occasionally reads and posts here) I would say this: Give it up! Clear your conscience! What could be worth *more* than a clear conscience? Why live as "two people" -- the guy your co-workers know, and the guy who *you yourself* know?

Praying that he will make this choice sooner, rather than later.

Just MOO, but he has no intention of making that choice. If he did, he would have turned himself in long, long, ago. He thinks he has outsmarted LE and congratulates himself daily, if not hourly, on that. Gutless pile of excrement that he is.

 

[Ozoner]

Thanks for your answer, Ozoner!

Meagan and Johnny were victims of TK in SC. It’s the case that introduced me to Websleuths.

Got it! I had read about that case when the story broke, but I'd forgotten the names of the victims.

 

[Charlot123]

Possibly a now missing person with some ties to Indiana. MOO

You are right that it probably a woman. But could she have been “accidentally” killed?

I think she should have been more local, and did not know much about the situation, but some elements of the murder (e.g. bonds, even some signatures) the person could have previously used during love play, and these, she could have later recognized. MOO

Sadistic murderers might reenact things with their girlfriends, I remember Ted Bundy’s GF who reported him because of his strange behavior with her.

 

[Charlot123]

Deleted.

 

[JnRyan]

I just saw this. An interview with Libby’s sister. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-11ea-a288-37bb9ee4051a/5ed83aa13be83.pdf.pdf

if it has been posted let me know I will delete

65000 tips!??! The last number I saw was 50K. I wonder how many cases in the USA have even one fourth that amount in 3 years. I know they are using the Pyramid software for the tips, but with that amount of tips it would still seem to be unmanageable. And any database is only as good as the input by human beings who are not infallible. With that many tips I can't help but wonder if there is one or more tips on the actual killer already in that database.

 

[TheVisual]

Question for those who think at least one other person knows who BG is and is protecting him:

Do you think BG knows they know or do you think they know but are living in fear of him finding out that they know?

Thanks!
RIP M+J

If it's him,he knows I know. But the FBI has talked to him and they did swab him. It's up to them now.

 

[Ozoner]

If it's him,he knows I know. But the FBI has talked to him and they did swab him. It's up to them now.

Does your suspect sound like BG? BG seems to have an unusually hoarse voice. I believe that you said that your suspect was quite a bit older than the stated age range for BG, right? If that's the case, I'd have to say that the odds of your suspect being BG are low.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Question for those who think at least one other person knows who BG is and is protecting him:

Do you think BG knows they know or do you think they know but are living in fear of him finding out that they know?

Thanks!
RIP M+J

All JMOO, but @RIP Meagan + Johnny, I think that...
a) BG *does* know -- or "sense" that they know, and also that
b) they are *very* much "living in fear" that something may "set him off", so... are "tip-toeing", so to speak, around him/when they visit with him, or just chat over the phone (NOT that they're going to tell *him* that they're so full of fear, their "innards" ache...)

ETA: Still thinking that those family members/one or two good friends who know him are still "with us"...

 

[Yemelyan]

@Kell1 Your post was amazing, it has been so long since we have had such good content here with so many thought-provoking things to think about as regards Delphi.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Hey there, @kmdiamond17, tried to send you a message, but not possible.

Hope you'll keep posting here on the Abby/Libby case; it's a case that's hard *not* to want to see solved ASAP -- two young girls, best of friends, out walking on trails, near home, etc., etc.

 

[Kell1]

@Kell1 Your post was amazing, it has been so long since we have had such good content here with so many thought-provoking things to think about as regards Delphi.

Welcome, hopefully it helps

 

[carbuff]

I think it is “don’t ask, don’t tell” situation, JMO.

Inclined to agree. They (probably she) just can't bring themselves to admit that he might be the killer. Denial is a powerful force.

 

[rosesfromangels]

@Kell1 Your post was amazing, it has been so long since we have had such good content here with so many thought-provoking things to think about as regards Delphi.

Agree. Appreciate Kell being here and keeping our thinking reality based/in alignment with LE thinking and process.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Just MOO, but he has no intention of making that choice. If he did, he would have turned himself in long, long, ago. He thinks he has outsmarted LE and congratulates himself daily, if not hourly, on that. Gutless pile of excrement that he is.

No intention now, anyway, but... sometimes, "life" has a way of changing things (i. e., like our individual perspectives on different situations, etc.). Still hopeful that those "wheels of justice [that] grind slow, [will] grind exceeding fine..." in this case, and for *this* killer.

ETA: He *thinks* that he's outsmarted LE... "thinks" = operative word.

 

[sunshineray]

I just saw this. An interview with Libby’s sister. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-11ea-a288-37bb9ee4051a/5ed83aa13be83.pdf.pdf

if it has been posted let me know I will delete

Wow what a write up, thanks for posting.

A few things that jumped out.

The first is Kelsei mentioning that when she dropped the girls off she saw a dark SUV with decals all over the back window parked in that drop-off area. Well I've never heard that before. With all the interviews and media things Kelsei has been involved in over the last 3 years, why pick now to be quoted about seeing a vehicle (that stood out) when she dropped Abby and Libby off? Was she originally told not to share that info? I also find Kelsei saying she feels no empathy coming from her hometown very, very sad.

A Delphi business owner stated, matter of factly it seemed like to me, that the Delphi detectives investigating the case have shared with townies when they have a promising lead to then come back and say it didn't pan out. Sounds a bit odd of a thing to say, to me, giving a picture of detectives gossiping with locals about the case. Something you'd probably keep under your hat if it was happening?

One other thing was the reporter saying that Sheriff Leazenby stessed, I'm paraphrasing, that acting on incomplete evidence can weaken the case and spoil the prosecution only gets one chance at conviction. Sounds like "incomplete" is the key word and at least a hopeful sounding word to describe evidence. I wonder if that was the Sheriff's actual word or the reporter's interpretation?

There were quotes I would have included but I couldn't copy and paste from that pdf.

All in all a really good read about Kelsei and her journey through all the heartache and hope for justice. What a lovely and caring young woman she is, God bless her.

 

[Trebor5591]

Pardon me for asking but what is Bloximages? I try to be selective of what I click.

I just saw this. An interview with Libby’s sister. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-11ea-a288-37bb9ee4051a/5ed83aa13be83.pdf.pdf

if it has been posted let me know I will delete

Thank you for posting this. I had no idea that Kelsi German was so frightened about BG coming back to harm her. Poor kid.

 

[Kell1]

Agree. Appreciate Kell being here and keeping our thinking reality based/in alignment with LE thinking and process.

amateur opinion and speculation

Again no problem if anyone has any questions feel free to shoot me a PM

 

[sunshineray]

"When we decided that, through the information we received, that we were going to release the second sketch I don’t believe the individual knew we were going to do that. So, it was really, really important. I think he was probably there and/or watching, simply because he thought we were on the wrong path," Carter said when the second sketch was released."

BBM
The way in which ISP Carter makes these statements almost leads me to believe that the person LE believes committed these murders is a person privileged with LE information. But then again, ISP Carter can be confusing and dramatic, so hard to tell, hard to tell. JMO

3 years later: What we know about the murders of Abby Williams, Libby German in Delphi

 

[drama_farmer]

Great to see Kell1 offering a summary for this terribly sad case.

I agree it was likely someone who either lived nearby or had a car parked very close to the retrieval scene. Many here have long wondered how a killer, dripping wet, muddy and possibly bloody, was able to climb out of the creek bottom and escape unnoticed. That would be difficult for someone to do if they weren't familiar with the area. I also believe they chose the crime scene carefully because it was just far enough out of sight from the bridge, hiking trail and nearby homes.

Previous criminal sexual activity could also be events that weren't reported to LE or not taken seriously. So many of these criminals began as peeping toms, volunteering to babysit little kids, behaving in a creepy way that might make an adult suspicious, but not enough to make a formal complaint to LE. JMO, the killer is local, as in from the general region and someone knows who he is. It also seems LE knows who it is, judging from some of their most recent press events and interviews.

Great work, as always Kell1!

bbm
Consider this my opinion, because I don't have a link: It's not uncommon for perps arrested for rape/sexual assault to agree to a plea deal for "burglary" or just "assault." So, many inmates serving time for non sexual-predator crimes may actually be rapists and sexual-assaulters. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Inclined to agree. They (probably she) just can't bring themselves to admit that he might be the killer. Denial is a powerful force.

Do you think LE has interviewed this person that knows? I believe the stated number of interviews that have been done as ofvthe 3 year anniversary was 1,000. That's about 1/3 of Delphi. Do you think the frightened person who knows hasn't been interviewed? I think it's either someone who feels greatly subjugated in their situation to a far greater personality or is in total denial themselves and has too much, in their mind, to lose by speaking up. AJMO