Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[minazoe]

we look at him and see

 

[Wells]

Something Leazenby stated bothers me. He said in the CCC article that, "the perpetrator will likely be someone who is fairly well-known in the community." That one line, and other similar statements by LE over the last 3 years, has me all in knots. How many well known people in the community look like the sketch? It's a small town, about half of whom are women and a number of men are too old, too young or not fairly well known. Either he is wrong or he is right. There is no middle ground here. If he is right, I have to assume they have a good idea of who it is. But if they have a good idea of who it is, many of the other statements he has said make no sense. LE is under no obligation to disclose anything but truly, some of their statements directly contradict each other.

 

[carbuff]

Below has probably been posted before but I hadn’t noticed it. What this indicates to me is LE is moving away from “the sketch is our suspect - he’s the man on the bridge!” to both sketches are now Persons of Interest whom they’re interested in. But this opens the possibility another person entirely was responsible for the murders. Big SNAFU for LE to insist it was The Suspect when sketch #1 was released, then once again Sketch #2, if now they are uncertain. JMO

April 29, 2020
“The Sheriff indicated the two sketches, which varied greatly from each other, were supplied by two different people near the scene on Monday, Feb. 13. Both images are of persons of interest in the investigation...”
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

This sounds like they're using person of interest in the broader sense of "somebody we need to identify and talk to" and not necessarily "these people are suspects."

I'm not good with faces (minor prosopagnosia, probably) but I've always thought the two sketches looked similar to those age-regressed sketches NCMEC does--#1 looks like the same guy as #2, only 20-30 years older. And neither of them looks like BG to me.

 

[Romans12]

I just saw this. An interview with Libby’s sister. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-11ea-a288-37bb9ee4051a/5ed83aa13be83.pdf.pdf

if it has been posted let me know I will delete

 

[MistyWaters]

I just saw this. An interview with Libby’s sister. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-11ea-a288-37bb9ee4051a/5ed83aa13be83.pdf.pdf

if it has been posted let me know I will delete

Pardon me for asking but what is Bloximages? I try to be selective of what I click.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Has anyone here ever followed a case that went to trial where a significant part of the defense was "my client looks nothing like the officially circulated sketch"?

(SBM)

The reason I'm wondering is, it seems like LE in this case don't wanted to over commit to either sketch. So what has been interpreted as "both are suspects" "possible two perps" is more LE just not wanting to give fodder to a defense at trial.

"my client looks nothing like the officially circulated sketch"

(BBM)
*This* is a really interesting question, @Yemelyan! Looking forward to reading the responses to this question you've posed.

 

[mom2chloe]

Wanted to share a recent experience I had with my teenage daughter on a short walk to the lake last week. We were followed by our neighbor’s puppies and we met up with an older gentleman, 60s I would guess, and his late 30s/ early 40s daughter. They were kind and talkative and after we watched some folks in a truck accidentally back into a tree and laugh while taking off, the man commented hey do you think they’ve had too much to drink?
He proceeded to explain to us that he has been a truck driver over his many years and that he is concerned that the area is the exact type of place where predators seek their prey. Drugs and violent crimes were words he used. At one point one of the puppies grabbed what looked like a balloon and when my daughter went to retrieve it from his mouth I screamed in fear not to touch it because it could have drugs in it. She laughed off my concerns.

We parted ways with puppies in tow but it left me wondering.

He definitely is not BG but for him to share his words with me speaks volumes. We mostly believe BG to he a local but if he is indeed a truck driver who has access and frequents the area how else do we explain it? The stranger who shared his opinion wasn’t asked and had no idea of my interest in this case or others. Just offering this as food for thought because there’s not been a night since where I haven’t replayed this experience in my mind. Stay safe and vigilant!

 

[Tiger Stripes]

This is definitely a possibility.

I completely agree; I don't think he will ever confess either. But I sure don't mind calling him a coward because of it. And I hope he lurks in the threads and reads how our members feel about him. He may be laughing now; but he won't forever. Can't wait for the day!

(snipped)

Well, now, @JDough and @BNA, this topic re: the killer's conscience is a most interesting point, and it is upon this item in particular (all JMOO) -- or a close family member's or friend's conscience -- that this case will be solved.

At one time... in the past (but... Who knows just *how* distant that past? -- the killer *did* have a conscience (MOO), but...in the days and weeks leading up to Feb. 13th, 2017, I believe that he kept pushing his conscience aside, until...finally, he *acted* upon his impulses.

***
In his professional life, the killer is viewed as highly responsible, intelligent, diligent, and...*conscientious*. He is highly esteemed by others for his community service and compassion toward those less fortunate. (All just amateur opinion here.)

***

Now that Abby and Libby are gone (gone, but far from forgotten, to be sure), he wants nothing more than to totally *forget* that day, and the images that are seared upon his thoughts. In his private moments he tries to escape the horror, but...it's impossible. He has few truly "close" friends, and has very few family with whom he's in touch. *They* (MOO, of course) have assured him that they will never, ever "blow his cover", and he *mostly* trusts that their promise to conceal his identity is good, but...every now and then, he... wonders: What *if*? What if I *were* to confess? To admit to this? All of those who know me -- and especially my family...our family's good name of many years will be...totally destroyed. *Can't* do it. Especially now. Been this long...maybe after...after those closest to me have passed away, and they will no longer be hurt, shunned, even rejected by everyone who knows them, and especially so that they avoid the potential risk of being considered complicit, since they know all of this...

All entirely JMOO (though I can truly understand why many here would believe that the killer is utterly remorseless, and that his having such inner conversations sounds so implausible...)

To him (since IMO he occasionally reads and posts here) I would say this: Give it up! Clear your conscience! What could be worth *more* than a clear conscience? Why live as "two people" -- the guy your co-workers know, and the guy who *you yourself* know?

Praying that he will make this choice sooner, rather than later.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

I just saw this. An interview with Libby’s sister. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-11ea-a288-37bb9ee4051a/5ed83aa13be83.pdf.pdf

if it has been posted let me know I will delete

Welcome to Websleuths, @Romans12!

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Question for those who think at least one other person knows who BG is and is protecting him:

Do you think BG knows they know or do you think they know but are living in fear of him finding out that they know?

Thanks!
RIP M+J

 

[Romans12]

Pardon me for asking but what is Bloximages? I try to be selective of what I click.

It’s the PDF file of the article. I have it on my Twitter screenshots https://twitter.com/But_I_LikeIt/status/1268689956160942080?s=20

 

[Romans12]

How do I delete?

 

[Charlot123]

Question for those who think at least one other person knows who BG is and is protecting him:

Do you think BG knows they know or do you think they know but are living in fear of him finding out that they know?

Thanks!
RIP M+J

I think it is “don’t ask, don’t tell” situation, JMO.

 

[Ozoner]

Question for those who think at least one other person knows who BG is and is protecting him:

Do you think BG knows they know or do you think they know but are living in fear of him finding out that they know?

Thanks!
RIP M+J

The other possibility is that someone knew or expressed suspicion but has already been disposed of by BG. (Who are M & J?)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The other possibility is that someone knew or expressed suspicion but has already been disposed of by BG. (Who are M & J?)

Possibly a now missing person with some ties to Indiana. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Question for those who think at least one other person knows who BG is and is protecting him:

Do you think BG knows they know or do you think they know but are living in fear of him finding out that they know?

Thanks!
RIP M+J

The latter. MOO

 

[Kell1]

DNA databases a

@Kell1 Thank you for bringing your expertise here! I always learn so much when I read your posts. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the idea of personation among offenders like these. The DA in the case has said that there were "two or possibly three signatures" and the crime scene was physically odd.

This is JMO as we have not been told for obvious reasons but I think there were elements of restraint/bindings. I think the ruse he used was to present himself as an authority figure and tell them they were not allowed to be on the bridge (truthfully, they were not supposed to be, as it is private property). And in that manner he took control of them. Stretching back further into the encounter, it's possible that he first saw that they were alone if he observed them being dropped off in the parking area by a family member. It appears there were other potential targets in the park that day but I think these were the only two he found alone enough to do what he wanted to do.

Remember "personation" is something that fills a psychological need for the offender, when personation is repeated through different events, it becomes what is known as 'Signature" , its not necessary to anything else in the commission of the crime than to satisfy the offender.

"MO" is a dynamic it can and does change, for many reasons, its not as reliable as Signature , as a criminal gains experience, their MO, may change, especially if they almost get caught etc.. , they learn , they adapt they change, .

This is usually different with repeat Sexual Child murderers, is that their MO changes less than almost any other criminal group we know.

If a certain offender, for example uses, a badge to gain compliance, he (yes male designation again) usually stays with it , its less likely hes going to start simply grabbing kids off the street. (which sadly is most common), likewise, if he uses a knife, hell most likely stay to that , but these types tend to keep the same MO throughout their criminal career.

Personation is what the offender does that fills the "need" in his psyche if you will, things such as posing the victim, in some cases, the sexual assault of the victim itself fills that , however, it can also simply be a component of a greater issue at work.

Its like a puzzle, with a missing piece, and its not complete until the offender fills that space with what they feel they need to do

Serial offenders are the best study on Signature, they do what they do for reasons known to them but in looking at what they have done to victims we can start to see the "why"

A good study on signature as despicable as he is is Ken Bianchi, he and his cousin raped and murdered 10 women after their murderes they would pose the victims in sexually suggestive poses post mortem. This was not necessary to complete their crimes, but it was something Bianchi felt was necessary to do to them after.

Dennis Rader is a virtual encyclopedia of signature

Some forms of signature are contained within the rape or murder of the victims itself, we see that in cases like Gary Ridgway, he thought of these prostitutes as "things" he was going to eliminate as many as he could. His Mo was to be a simple John picking up a girl, his signature, was to manually strangle as many as possible. Zodiac falls into this category

In some cases, the sexual assault of the victim is a form of rage or punishment, this was the case, with guys like Ted Bundy , his MO changed, many times, from the suave talking college kid, to the injured boater, to the masked intruder, that randomly bludgeoned 4 co-eds 2 fatally., to a child rapist murderer . But what never changed, was that he had a deep seated hatred toward women outside his sphere that he felt the need to satisfy by domination control forced sex, and then savagely beating them to death .

In cases of Child abduction murders (which this is) Binding is EXTREMEMLY important to note.

Heres why:

-Of all the sexual murder types, those who abduct and murder a child have the highest likelyhood of ALL criminal groups to re-offend (shocker right?)

-Of all the sexual murder types those who abduct and murder children for sexual means, have the highest likelyhood to repeat offend more than once , meaning that they have the highest propensity to become Serial offenders

-Child abduction murderers are 6-12 times more likely to bind their victims which roughly equals one fourth of all abductions (note not abduction murders) . Now with older victims this may be necessary for control especially if theres more than one victim, or if the victim is strong, but with younger children it becomes less about control and more bout their primary or secondary sexual function to fulfill the sexual needs of the offender. (IE Signature)

-Binding is used by murders in only about 4% of all murder cases (adult included) , and only 2% of ALL child murder cases (non abduction) . However in a child abduction murder binding was present in almost 25% of those cases.

In NON series cases, binding was found on about 21% of the victims , However in Series cases almost 40% bound their victims !

Therefore binding of a child murder victim (or evidence of) should be a good investigative consideration of a possible Serial Killer at work, or a fledgling Serial Killer in the making, especially if the binding wasnt necessary to control the victim simply to facliitate the crime.

In cases like this its usually a stranger, but only silghtly less someone they knew or were aquainted with in some way.

Sorry for long post

 

[Kell1]

I know what you are suggesting is true; I think we can all think of people who just make us uneasy, real uneasy.

So, given that Delphi and the surrounding area are small and rural, wouldn't you think they would have a list of known oddballs by now? Wouldn't they have captured their DNA one way or another and tested it by now?

Maybe there aren't enough resources to do this, or perhaps people aren't coming forward to call out oddballs, or both, or?

Amateur opinion and speculation

No, being an oddball doesnt make one a criminal, if the police had to chase, every person someone thought was odd this case wouldnt stand a chance.

Remember DNA databases, for the most part are new, and in some areas, theyre extremely slow to catch up, and though someone may be arrested for something theres always a chance, they are found not guilty for some reason (doesnt mean they didnt do it ) just means the evidence didnt weigh up.

A guy arrested for a property crime may not even have his DNA registered.

Or therea always a chance, they didnt get caught , or they did by someone who thought it was just best to ask them to leave. Ive seen it done in small communities.

So they may have DNA in this case, but nothing to link it to for whatever reason.

Given that these cases, have a high instance of previous criminal activity , usually with a sexual component, it sounds a lot like what ive stated

Noone wakes up one day , has their coffe, and decides "Im gonna go kill 2 girls in the park today" , theres always a trail leading to it .

 

[Kell1]

Also I was asked if I thought this case, was related to the 2 murdered girls in Evansdale, without pertinent info on BOTH cases, it would be impossible to do a linkage analysis .

I will say on its face, IMO It DOES NOT to be related other than the number of victims, taken at once.

Again without everything needed to do a LA its impossible to say.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

The other possibility is that someone knew or expressed suspicion but has already been disposed of by BG. (Who are M & J?)

Thanks for your answer, Ozoner!

Meagan and Johnny were victims of TK in SC. It’s the case that introduced me to Websleuths.