Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #143

[Lavender Moon]

It looks like a mustache to me , too. I agree that he probably shaved it off. He probably made a significant change in his appearance and perhaps began to make that change minutes after destroying those two sweet girls.

 

[photographer4]

For your consideration... and only because I've not seen it mentioned previously....

We don't know whether this killer planned it all out ahead of time or took care to disguise his appearance in some way. LE told us a witness didn't know eye color but said not blue??

So... I mean, have we ever considered this killer may have worn colored contact lenses for this day / part of this day? I don't believe a script is needed unless they alter your vision in some way. Just an odd thought to ponder really.

 

[Mireille]

For your consideration... and only because I've not seen it mentioned previously....

We don't know whether this killer planned it all out ahead of time or took care to disguise his appearance in some way. LE told us a witness didn't know eye color but said not blue??

So... I mean, have we ever considered this killer may have worn colored contact lenses for this day / part of this day? I don't believe a script is needed unless they alter your vision in some way. Just an odd thought to ponder really.

I am not sure it was that planned. To some degree I believe it was, but not to the level of disguise. The stuff he is wearing is incredibly normal. Aside the odd lump on his stomach, which certainly is something he is hiding under his jacket.

He is wearing a navy jacket, everyone owns one of those. I think the hood might have a lighter trim, or lighter fur on it. Then jeans. Possibly torn. Everyone has a pair of those as well. Possibly a lighter scarf or top of some sort underneath, and a hat. Dark shoes. Which makes perfect sense in february if you're gonna be outside for a bit. The most remarkable things about him is perhaps, what I perceive to be a moustache.

I think he had them on his friendlist on snapchat, or some app tied to it. In 2017 Snapchat introduced a function that allowed you to share your location with your friends.Not sure when, but they could have been part of a beta? Of course, they may not have 'known' him that well, or at all. Could have been another catfish account like that Anthony guy. I think this was a way he could have known where they were. Or, he saw them when they arrived and decided to follow them and do what he did.

Wonder why the investigation is moving in such a snail's pace. They sounded so certain that they had good leads and such when it all started.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I think when LE missed confiscating KAK's iPhone5 and he subsequently deleted, installed and re-deleted the Snapschat app before he turned it into police, the anthony_shots interactions with Libby's phone were made unrecoverable.

I'm not very tech savvy about these certain apps of Instragram, MeetUp or Snapchat. Especially with Snapchat, does none if the data get filtered to a cloud storage? In the affidavit the language used is the data was "destroyed".

I thought everything left a trace digitally on these apps? Was it just that Snapchat either refused to turn data over or did LE drop the ball with that iPhone5?

I would love to be schooled about these apps and why data deleted was unrecoverable and actually "destroyed". I think there in lies the rub in this case. In those two days KAK was able to destroy what LE needed to arrest/convict him for either murder or accessory to murder. AJMO

From his own mouth KAK told that interviewer that LE told him HE (meaning anthony_shots?) was the last person to talk to Libby German.

Was it from that iPhone5 and then shared with someone else or was it actually anthony_shots account logged into by someone else? If someone else, possibly the killer, KAK's iPhone5 would have most likely also Snapcahtted with them and that info also "destroyed".

What a disaster!

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I have some technical background so I can answer this. The data may have been destroyed on the phone itself - depending on which version of iOS the phone had installed it would have been difficult to destroy data beyond the capabilities of the FBI to retrieve but it isn’t impossible.

However companies like Snap and Meta (for Instagram) keep all of their data for law enforcement purposes for varying periods. Snap keeps data for 30 days and Instagram until an account is deleted.

Sources:

Help Center

Law Enforcement - Snap Inc.

Interesting information.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

It is mindboggling to me how LE mishandled KAK’s iPhone5. They treated him as if he had been brought in for trampling a neighbor’s flowers instead of massive child and, oh by the way, do you know anything about this double homicide.
LE obviously knew about the iPhone5 and intended to confiscate it otherwise KAK would have just tossed it in a river somewhere instead of turning it over. Why LE didn’t turn that house upside down looking for it or apply more pressure on KAK to produce it is really indefensible. Is that the thing done wrong, but unintentional, that LE talks about in their statement?
I can’t help but wonder if LE would have troubled themselves to find and recover that phone intact that things would look a lot different right now. Maybe we’d be waiting on a trial instead of staring at a cold case right now.

The Keystone Cops.

 

[carbuff]

JMO: I think you meant "in the last decade" as hyperbole, but have you seen the younger photos of him? The arrest photo shows a LOT of weight gain from 2018 and an earlier photo, see link:
https://kuzenski.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/kak-sizes-01.jpg

I saw that. It was the kind of physical change that makes me do a mental double take--profilers talk about the killer changing his appearance, and that would certainly be a big change.

 

[sunshineray]

I have some technical background so I can answer this. The data may have been destroyed on the phone itself - depending on which version of iOS the phone had installed it would have been difficult to destroy data beyond the capabilities of the FBI to retrieve but it isn’t impossible.

However companies like Snap and Meta (for Instagram) keep all of their data for law enforcement purposes for varying periods. Snap keeps data for 30 days and Instagram until an account is deleted.

Sources:

Help Center

Law Enforcement - Snap Inc.

Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. I was also reading and without giving too much away, I'm seeing what affidavit shows KAK doing with the deleting, installing, then deleting could be a form of overwriting data so it is destroyed.

I have some technical background so I can answer this. The data may have been destroyed on the phone itself - depending on which version of iOS the phone had installed it would have been difficult to destroy data beyond the capabilities of the FBI to retrieve but it isn’t impossible.

However companies like Snap and Meta (for Instagram) keep all of their data for law enforcement purposes for varying periods. Snap keeps data for 30 days and Instagram until an account is deleted.

Sources:

Help Center

Law Enforcement - Snap Inc.

Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated.


I was also reading and I'm seeing that affidavit shows KAK doing with the deleting, installing, then deleting could be a form of overwriting data so it is destroyed?


Is it a choice you can make with an iPhone for the Cloud backup or does it just happen and you can't turn it off? TIA

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

I am just dropping this here. Was watching the short clip of the bridge guy. There appears to be a short moment where it stabilizes and zooms.

Feeling unsure if the "current" sketch is accurate because I swear I am seeing a moustache.
View attachment 334283View attachment 334280
When zoomed in:
View attachment 334281View attachment 334282

There also appears to be something on his knees
View attachment 334283
My dad has a couple of "knee protectors" he uses when he is doing handy work, and I am kinda wondering if these are similar.

Wow these turned out small

Source for video: Indiana gov.

I agree about it looking like a moustache. It's not a nose shadow either, because there is a shadow and part of the 'moustache' is in that shadow.

Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. I was also reading and without giving too much away, I'm seeing what affidavit shows KAK doing with the deleting, installing, then deleting could be a form of overwriting data so it is destroyed.


Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated.


I was also reading and I'm seeing that affidavit shows KAK doing with the deleting, installing, then deleting could be a form of overwriting data so it is destroyed?


Is it a choice you can make with an iPhone for the Cloud backup or does it just happen and you can't turn it off? TIA

It’s a choice. And any security expert would say to never enable it on a phone that’s ‘sensitive’.

 

[IceIce9]

Another creep caught while planning to have sex with a 13 year old girl. They kept his phone and he was released back in July.


From the article;



On July 13, 2021, Kihnemann flew to Indianapolis from Florida where he rented a car and drove to the Avon park where he’d expected to meet with the 13-year-old girl. Instead, Kihnemann was confronted by members of the predator catching group and Avon police were called.

Court documents revealed police interviewed Kihnemann at the police department where he admitted to saying graphic and sexual things to what he believed was a 13-year-old. Officers read aloud several of Kihnemann’s Instagram messages and asked what he thought a judge would think his intentions were with the girl after hearing those messages. Kihnemann reportedly responded, “To have sex with that girl.”

Kihnemann was released from police custody, his cell phone kept as evidence, and returned to Florida. After obtaining a search warrant, police searched his cellphone uncovering more messages from Kihnemann to the fake 13-year-old girl including messages where he acknowledged her age, once reportedly writing, “I don’t think of you as 13, but you keep reminding me


Online group poses as minor, catches Florida man who flew to Indy to meet ‘girl’

 

[Yemelyan]

It is mindboggling to me how LE mishandled KAK’s iPhone5. They treated him as if he had been brought in for trampling a neighbor’s flowers instead of massive child and, oh by the way, do you know anything about this double homicide.
LE obviously knew about the iPhone5 and intended to confiscate it otherwise KAK would have just tossed it in a river somewhere instead of turning it over. Why LE didn’t turn that house upside down looking for it or apply more pressure on KAK to produce it is really indefensible. Is that the thing done wrong, but unintentional, that LE talks about in their statement?
I can’t help but wonder if LE would have troubled themselves to find and recover that phone intact that things would look a lot different right now. Maybe we’d be waiting on a trial instead of staring at a cold case right now.

Bolded by me...I too wonder about KAK's iPhone5. Since search warrants are usually written for a specific location (such as "house, garage, outbuildings, and vehicles associated with address XYZ") I'm wondering if the phone actually wasn't in his possession at all during the Peru search. Maybe they couldn't find it and he couldn't produce it right away because it was physically with someone else. Wondering if people who associate with each other over CSAM sometimes trade devices loaded with content as well.

 

[TL4S]

It is mindboggling to me how LE mishandled KAK’s iPhone5. They treated him as if he had been brought in for trampling a neighbor’s flowers instead of massive child and, oh by the way, do you know anything about this double homicide.
LE obviously knew about the iPhone5 and intended to confiscate it otherwise KAK would have just tossed it in a river somewhere instead of turning it over. Why LE didn’t turn that house upside down looking for it or apply more pressure on KAK to produce it is really indefensible. Is that the thing done wrong, but unintentional, that LE talks about in their statement?
I can’t help but wonder if LE would have troubled themselves to find and recover that phone intact that things would look a lot different right now. Maybe we’d be waiting on a trial instead of staring at a cold case right now.

I've wondered about the iPhone5 and also the extra bag he claimed to have packed for when he took off. Where was that? Vegas? Did he say the iPhone5 was in there, as his excuse? His Galaxy 5 had messages about Vegas, so was he not using his iPhone5 there? He started deleting stuff less than 2 hours after being returned from his polygraph, so I would like to know if LE was watching the house during that time.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Bolded by me...I too wonder about KAK's iPhone5. Since search warrants are usually written for a specific location (such as "house, garage, outbuildings, and vehicles associated with address XYZ") I'm wondering if the phone actually wasn't in his possession at all during the Peru search. Maybe they couldn't find it and he couldn't produce it right away because it was physically with someone else. Wondering if people who associate with each other over CSAM sometimes trade devices loaded with content as well.

That’s my theory as well. I think someone else had the phone.

 

[AC4RD]

...
LE obviously knew about the iPhone5 and intended to confiscate it ... Why LE didn’t turn that house upside down looking for it or apply more pressure on KAK to produce it ...

MHO. MOO. On the subject of police finding things: In the mystery books, the detective finds the sticky note hidden inside the "do not remove this tag" tag on the underside of a mattress in the attic. In real life, the detectives aren't always that acute.

Twenty years ago a friend of mine was murdered by someone who broke into his home. He was shot in the head, in his bed. The police assured us that they were "doing everything possible" to find the killer. But "everything possible" didn't include looking under the bed the murder occurred in. Mario's parents came to clean up after the murder, and they found a spent bullet *under the bed*. Presumably the police couldn't be bothered to actually look under the bedroom furniture--not even the bed Mario actually died in.

So, yeah, the police searches *should* be comprehensive, but they aren't always. :-(

 

[iamnotagolem]

MHO. MOO. On the subject of police finding things: In the mystery books, the detective finds the sticky note hidden inside the "do not remove this tag" tag on the underside of a mattress in the attic. In real life, the detectives aren't always that acute.

Twenty years ago a friend of mine was murdered by someone who broke into his home. He was shot in the head, in his bed. The police assured us that they were "doing everything possible" to find the killer. But "everything possible" didn't include looking under the bed the murder occurred in. Mario's parents came to clean up after the murder, and they found a spent bullet *under the bed*. Presumably the police couldn't be bothered to actually look under the bedroom furniture--not even the bed Mario actually died in.

So, yeah, the police searches *should* be comprehensive, but they aren't always. :-(

I agree completely, my friend’s brother was murdered in a similar way, shot in the back while in bed asleep, only it was ruled a suicide.

 

[JnRyan]

MHO. MOO. On the subject of police finding things: In the mystery books, the detective finds the sticky note hidden inside the "do not remove this tag" tag on the underside of a mattress in the attic. In real life, the detectives aren't always that acute.

Twenty years ago a friend of mine was murdered by someone who broke into his home. He was shot in the head, in his bed. The police assured us that they were "doing everything possible" to find the killer. But "everything possible" didn't include looking under the bed the murder occurred in. Mario's parents came to clean up after the murder, and they found a spent bullet *under the bed*. Presumably the police couldn't be bothered to actually look under the bedroom furniture--not even the bed Mario actually died in.

So, yeah, the police searches *should* be comprehensive, but they aren't always. :-(

Happens more often than we like to think about. Look at the murder of Chandra Levy (LE messed up her PC, forgot to obtain surveillance video and a miscommunication about the park search). Or the missing person case of Jennifer Kesse (condo was never processed). Or the missing person case of Kristin Smart (LE waited too long to search dorm and lost a crucial piece of evidence). We're not talking about small towns with little experience with missing persons and murder.

 

[Imvp2]

Do you see skulls on it?

The skull face design was done in lines, not solid white, so we see what appears as white "piping" or outlining on a dark garment. MOO

 

[paraphrase]

Bolded by me...I too wonder about KAK's iPhone5. Since search warrants are usually written for a specific location (such as "house, garage, outbuildings, and vehicles associated with address XYZ") I'm wondering if the phone actually wasn't in his possession at all during the Peru search. Maybe they couldn't find it and he couldn't produce it right away because it was physically with someone else. Wondering if people who associate with each other over CSAM sometimes trade devices loaded with content as well.

If the phone was with someone else, that 'someone else' may be KAK's co-conspirator, the partner in crime, the actual killer.
And maybe giving an interview to the press (against his attorney's advice) was the only possible way he could communicate with that person, to send a message, to let that person know he hasn't confessed anything, that he's still denying everything, he hasn't cooperated, that police know they were the last to speak to the girls, etc.
Because all jail communications are monitored, the only way he could get a message out was through the press. moo

Kegan Kline acknowledges Delphi investigation for the first time | wthr.com

 

[sunshineray]

Another creep caught while planning to have sex with a 13 year old girl. They kept his phone and he was released back in July.


From the article;



On July 13, 2021, Kihnemann flew to Indianapolis from Florida where he rented a car and drove to the Avon park where he’d expected to meet with the 13-year-old girl. Instead, Kihnemann was confronted by members of the predator catching group and Avon police were called.

Court documents revealed police interviewed Kihnemann at the police department where he admitted to saying graphic and sexual things to what he believed was a 13-year-old. Officers read aloud several of Kihnemann’s Instagram messages and asked what he thought a judge would think his intentions were with the girl after hearing those messages. Kihnemann reportedly responded, “To have sex with that girl.”

Kihnemann was released from police custody, his cell phone kept as evidence, and returned to Florida. After obtaining a search warrant, police searched his cellphone uncovering more messages from Kihnemann to the fake 13-year-old girl including messages where he acknowledged her age, once reportedly writing, “I don’t think of you as 13, but you keep reminding me


Online group poses as minor, catches Florida man who flew to Indy to meet ‘girl’

I'm guessing he was let go because it wasn't police who scammed him right? Hopefully his local police were able to get a warrant and search his house

 

[sunshineray]

Just a look back. In hindsight, with what we now know, What the heck!?

FBI searches Peru home, finds no link to Delphi killings

FBI searches Peru home regarding Delphi homicides, nothing found | Fox 59