IN - Aliahna Maroney Lemmon, 9, Fort Wayne, 23 Dec 2011 - #5

[Belinda]

I think judgment, in every sense, is what was and is called for here. Let's start with why small children are living in a place occupied largely by sex offenders? I have not a problem in the world passing judgment on that, for starters. Then we can move on to "sex offender babysitting children alone in his own home--overnight."

Poor, sweet child never had a chance.

While the murderer was not a sex offender, he did have a prior criminal record. Still, I wouldn't have ever left my daughter with someone like that.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.cbs12.com/video/c/1143359274/local-news/1349445034001/wpec-localnews

Life seems to have goe downhill since MP became a fugitive from justice. MP went from owning a home (which he may not have lived in though) to being a transient with no income, more or less.

If he didn't live in the home he owned, the question is, where did he live? He does not appear to be the hermit type who wouldn't be seen by his neighbors.

 

[SilkySifaka]

To a great extent I will agree with you. But in this case somehow the previous molester got prosecuted. I don't know how it came to the attention of authorities, but it did. And if Mom didn't cooperate in that prosecution then likely she wouldn't have kepr custody of the kids. And she did keep them.
So at least one point she did stand up for her child.

So at this point I think it is a little early to assume that Mom was involved or was ignoring a bad situation. The father said he knew the guy and he thought the guy was ok. So maybe neither of the parents knew about the 13 year old or maybe they were told some story about a vindictive ex wife or something. None of the family seems to have believed this guy would have harmed any of the kids. Somehow I believe that.

I think some things have taken on a life of their own here. I see the mom and family as having horrific deplorable judgement in where to live and in sending the girls to be babysat by Plumadore but I have seen no evidence they are involved in child porn or sending the girls to be abused on purpose as seems to be the accusations on the forum.

The fact we know Ali was abused two times before and the abusers caught tells us that somehow her mom allowed/pursued a criminal case and we have heard nothing to suggest it was uncooperative as you said.

I understand the anger at her for moving into pedo park to be near her dad and also at her letting someone she knew for a few years and trusted look after the girls. I am angry as well at that.

I just don't see it as any more than lousy parenting skills -which is a lot but then if it was a crime they couldn't build enough jails fast enough.

MP conned her and her family and psychopaths do that. I think Occams Razor says that is the most likely reason the girls were with him, not a nefarious purpose on the part of mom and family.

You add ignorance and bad judgement together and you end up with a mom who made choices that in themselves led to the horrific death of her daughter. Not criminal choices. She sure hasn't done the sleuthing we have (she should have done some but who imagines the nice guy who looked after granddad is a child killer if you are a gullible type)

I don't think she is a monster, until someone shows me evidence I have to believe she is grieving (and yes some people can't stand to look at reminders especially when they feel guilty because some action of theirs allowed the situation to develop) and horror struck.

Parents OFTEN stand up and defend the murderer of their child before evidence is found that they did it when it is someone close to the family. I think it is natural, to contemplate that you made that sort of terrible mistake in judgement is to much for most to handle unless they have to. I don't hold it against Gma or mom that they didn't believe he could do it until he confessed.

jmo

 

[Etilema]

I was molested by my oldest brother for 7 years. When I finally told a teacher, who alerted authorities, my brother was arrested at his college & my parents were called to come to my school, where they were told what was going on. In front of the principal, my mom was solicitous & nice to me, but as soon as we were in the car to go home, she turned on me & wanted to know why I'd made up such lies about my brother. He admitted that he'd abused me & my mother STILL refused to believe it. To this day, my entire family protects my brother & maintains he's a great guy. Even one of my sisters who was also abused by him (he molested both her & me on our parents' bed). The story that my family maintains is that I lied about my brother for attention. The fact that he was convicted of a class A felony means nothing except that I was horribly malicious in trying to wreck his life.

What's my point? I'm not horribly damaged even though I spent my life in an environment where molestation was an "okay" thing & the victim was blamed & demeaned & treated like crap once the truth came out. I grew up pretty screwed up, but counseling & choosing to cut my biological family out of my life so that the cycle of abuse could be broken & my own children could be spared the crap I went through was the route I chose.

I know it's not an easy road for survivors of incest, but dang it, TS didn't have to choose to give her children to a convicted felon!!! I don't care HOW bad her childhood was! I DON'T CARE how challenging her life has been. There's no good excuse in my book for not taking care of your kids. Absolutely zero. As such, I am so thoroughly disgusted by the adults involved in this case that I want to.... well, I can't say 'cuz it would get me a T.O.

May I ask, why did you not go to your parents with this info before going to teachers--did you already sense that your parents would not be supportive?

 

[SilkySifaka]

I beg to differ, and most of the clients I've dealt with would also. Victims might be totally confused, and some little voice deep inside tells them that something isn't right, but no, it has not been my experience that victims know that what happened to them is wrong, because in many cases, the very people that are abusing them are the ones that are supposed to be teaching them right and wrong.

No one said one word about someone who is abused going on to abuse. I have been abused. Thrice over...babysitter, Bible-thumping grandfather, older friend of older friend. I have never abused anyone. However...have I trusted sociopaths and others who offer a kind hand and word? Yep. You betcha. Because during my "formative years," those people who were supposed to be the paragon of virtue did unspeakable things to me, so the people who said the "right things" must be right, right?

Where has it been shown that this mother did anything to participate in drugs or child porn or prostitution? Where? Where has it been shown that she is guilty of anything other than trusting someone who worked hard at being trusted? Show me. Anybody. Show me. And yet she's been accused of everything and anything. Where are the links, folks? Where's the proof that this woman is engaged in all the awful things she's been accused of?

I would like to see the evidence as well.

IMO

p.s. In no way am I defending her choices as a parent..I think they were deplorable. That is a far cry from child porn, meth and prostitution

 

[Etilema]

I think some things have taken on a life of their own here. I see the mom and family as having horrific deplorable judgement in where to live and in sending the girls to be babysat by Plumadore but I have seen no evidence they are involved in child porn or sending the girls to be abused on purpose as seems to be the accusations on the forum.

The fact we know Ali was abused two times before and the abusers caught tells us that somehow her mom allowed/pursued a criminal case and we have heard nothing to suggest it was uncooperative as you said.

I understand the anger at her for moving into pedo park to be near her dad and also at her letting someone she knew for a few years and trusted look after the girls. I am angry as well at that.

I just don't see it as any more than lousy parenting skills -which is a lot but then if it was a crime they couldn't build enough jails fast enough.

MP conned her and her family and psychopaths do that. I think Occams Razor says that is the most likely reason the girls were with him, not a nefarious purpose on the part of mom and family.

You add ignorance and bad judgement together and you end up with a mom who made choices that in themselves led to the horrific death of her daughter. Not criminal choices. She sure hasn't done the sleuthing we have (she should have done some but who imagines the nice guy who looked after granddad is a child killer if you are a gullible type)

I don't think she is a monster, until someone shows me evidence I have to believe she is grieving (and yes some people can't stand to look at reminders especially when they feel guilty because some action of theirs allowed the situation to develop) and horror struck.

Parents OFTEN stand up and defend the murderer of their child before evidence is found that they did it when it is someone close to the family. I think it is natural, to contemplate that you made that sort of terrible mistake in judgement is to much for most to handle unless they have to. I don't hold it against Gma or mom that they didn't believe he could do it until he confessed.

jmo

But, if I am not mistaken, Grandma continued to defend this guy AFTER he confessed! That's what blows *me* away.

 

[madge]

Since she was quite adept on the internet, Facebook and such it should not have been hard for her to search Mike P and find out about his background.

Poor parenting, poor judgement, whatever. Her child is DEAD due to her judgement. Mike P killed her but mommy was sitting at home on the Facebook when she should have been taking care of her.

The buck has to stop somewhere

 

[SilkySifaka]

But, if I am not mistaken, Grandma continued to defend this guy AFTER he confessed! That's what blows *me* away.

IIRC there was a clip on NG showing gma defending him but other posters pointed out it was from before he confessed.

Which makes sense to me because i highly highly doubt that gma or anyone else was ready to be interviewed on camera after discovering their grand daughters head was found in a freezer with other body parts and a torso in a dumpster. And you can't say it wasn't his freezer so i believe the posts that suggested it was an earlier clip played the day of the confession announcement.

Whatever they may have thought before his arrest, whether they thought she ran away (with an ODD label it isn't so hard to understand it ran through their mind-i hate kids being labeled with that since its the precurser to sociopathy which isn't diagnosed before 18 and seems she acted out at times..no wonder with her abuse history imo and PTSD in top of it) or someone else took her, I don't think any of them were prepared for a cut up body in baggies.

I have to say imo because I read those posts back on earlier thread but they are there if anyone knows how to find them.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Another good point. However as a society and as mother's in particular I think it calls out to that most basic understanding that mother is the protector.

Case in point I'll quote my own mother "They're sick those perverts. They can't help themselves. It's a mother's job to protect her children from that". I absolutely get that. In contrast then isn't it a father's as well?

My mom blurted that out recently about the Sandusky case and I told her she was taking the blame from the abuser. She'd have none of it. Sadly I had to say "Mom was it your fault I was raped as a kid? Could you have known?" She was silent. Of course it wasn't her fault. She allowed me to accompany her best friend and her kids. How could she have known?

In all honesty in my heart I don't believe a woman should have allowed three little girls to share a trailer with a grown man. This especially when her child was already assaulted. Then again it's obvious this "family" isn't Beaver Clevers.

I don't think she should have either but it bothers me when I say that because most men are perfectly decent people who would never dream of hurting a child and there are SO women as well..i mean who would imagine the daughter of a pastor and sunday school teacher would kidnap and rape Sandra Cantu?

However society's mores as they are, it was a really bad idea..yet if you think the person is a wonderful and trusted family friend, are at the end of your rope due to illness etc. (no she shouldn't be but as you said, not the cleavers) then from her point of view there was never any danger. That can be called a lot of things, including horrible judgement, stupid and more but it is not complicit in her childs abuse and murder

IMO

 

[Etilema]

But, if I am not mistaken, Grandma continued to defend this guy AFTER he confessed! That's what blows *me* away.

Yes, here it is:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...bysitter-Michael-Plumadore-poses-cameras.html

"Despite the confession, the little girl's grandmother, Amber Story, stood by Plumadore.

'I don't care what anybody says. Mike did nothing to her. He loves those girls,' she told the News-Sentinel."

 

[Patty G]

Yes, here it is:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...bysitter-Michael-Plumadore-poses-cameras.html

"Despite the confession, the little girl's grandmother, Amber Story, stood by Plumadore.

'I don't care what anybody says. Mike did nothing to her. He loves those girls,' she told the News-Sentinel."

This website is out of the UK and sometimes they pull together things that were said before and mix it in with the present. The statements that the grandmother stated were on Nancy Grace, of which, that show aired only hours before MP was arrested.

IMO, I highly doubt that the grandmother would be supporting MP especially AFTER MP confessed to the police that he killed Ali.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't think she should have either but it bothers me when I say that because most men are perfectly decent people who would never dream of hurting a child and there are SO women as well..i mean who would imagine the daughter of a pastor and sunday school teacher would kidnap and rape Sandra Cantu?

However society's mores as they are, it was a really bad idea..yet if you think the person is a wonderful and trusted family friend, are at the end of your rope due to illness etc. (no she shouldn't be but as you said, not the cleavers) then from her point of view there was never any danger. That can be called a lot of things, including horrible judgement, stupid and more but it is not complicit in her childs abuse and murder

IMO

FORT WAYNE, Ind. - To assist her dying father, Tarah Souders made a choice: She moved her three young girls to a run-down trailer park in rural Indiana to help take care of him as his lungs rotted from emphysema.

She knew it could be dangerous. The park of about two dozen homes was teeming with convicted sex offenders, with one living at nearly every address. She worried about neighbors with sex offense records who had been helping her father get by, according to trailer park residents. And before she arrived, she even asked her father if her children could be at risk for abuse from two specific men - including a suspect now accused in her daughter's death.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...murder-suspect-article-1.997669#ixzz1iDGVaSw6
'

If this article is accurate it doesn't seem like that there was never any danger from her point of view. It seems like she saw the same warning signs we do and chose to ignore them because her child molester father said it was perfectly all right.

 

[Etilema]

So, we have talked about the idea that parts of MP's story could be true (though not necessarily). I wonder what he told LE was the reason he decided to haul off and murder Aliahna on his front steps. Because piecing things together, I can imagine that on Wednesday night/early Thursday he might have been molesting her and/or her sisters and she decided to go get her mother (wanted her Mommy), and he was trying to stop her and finally caught her on her way out the door and killed her (because he was at the end of the hall, as we say). Have we established that Wednesday was the girls' first night there? (Perhaps someone else has already suggested this scenario?)

 

[CharlestonGal]

Since she was quite adept on the internet, Facebook and such it should not have been hard for her to search Mike P and find out about his background.

Poor parenting, poor judgement, whatever. Her child is DEAD due to her judgement. Mike P killed her but mommy was sitting at home on the Facebook when she should have been taking care of her.

The buck has to stop somewhere

IMHO, there was no reason whatsoever for mom to have sleuthed before leaving her children with him. The only information she needed to know was right in front of her nose. Mom DID know that her father was a convicted, registered child molester. Mom DID know that was just peachy fine moving in with and taking care of this convicted, registered child molester. Mom DID know that actively CHOSE to live in a viper's den of RSO's. He didn't have to live there. He wasn't a RSO himself; but voluntarily chose to live with them and associate with them. didn't move to the sex offender park to take care of child molester grandpa; he already lived there by choice. That should have told mom all she needed to know about the values and perspective of .

Mom didn't need to sleuth anything. Anyone with an ounce of protective instinct for their children would never allow their children to be anywhere near this convicted, registered child molester or his live-in sidekick, much less given them free 24/7 unsupervised access for a week.

I ask you this - would ANY of you allow your children anywhere near this convicted, registered child molester and his side-kick? Or give your children to either of them for even 5 seconds? I don't think so.

There is no excuse on God's green earth for that. None. Mom knew everything she needed to know about this and the danger he and child molester grandpa both posed to her children and she brought them like a lamb to the slaughter nonetheless. She gets no pass from me.

 

[Donjeta]

So, we have talked about the idea that parts of MP's story could be true (though not necessarily). I wonder what he told LE was the reason he decided to haul off and murder Aliahna on his front steps. Because piecing things together, I can imagine that on Wednesday night/early Thursday he might have been molesting her and/or her sisters and she decided to go get her mother (wanted her Mommy), and he was trying to stop her and finally caught her on her way out the door and killed her (because he was at the end of the hall, as we say). Have we established that Wednesday was the girls' first night there? (Perhaps someone else has already suggested this scenario?)

BBM IIRC their mother had last seen them on Tuesday when they got off the bus.

 

[Donjeta]

IMHO, there was no reason whatsoever for mom to have sleuthed before leaving her children with him. The only information she needed to know was right in front of her nose. Mom DID know that her father was a convicted, registered child molester. Mom DID know that was just peachy fine moving in with and taking care of this convicted, registered child molester. Mom DID know that actively CHOSE to live in a viper's den of RSO's. He didn't have to live there. He wasn't a RSO himself; but voluntarily chose to live with them and associate with them. didn't move to the sex offender park to take care of child molester grandpa; he already lived there by choice. That should have told mom all she needed to know about the values and perspective of .

Mom didn't need to sleuth anything. Anyone with an ounce of protective instinct for their children would never allow their children to be anywhere near this convicted, registered child molester or his live-in sidekick, much less given them free 24/7 unsupervised access for a week.

I ask you this - would ANY of you allow your children anywhere near this convicted, registered child molester and his side-kick? Or give your children to either of them for even 5 seconds? I don't think so.

There is no excuse on God's green earth for that. None. Mom knew everything she needed to know about this and the danger he and child molester grandpa both posed to her children and she brought them like a lamb to the slaughter nonetheless. She gets no pass from me.

Even if you have some steel hard, sound proof and absolutely valid evidence that the grandfather and his sidekick would never hurt these children there is no reason whatsoever to trust any of the other [unusual persons that are not unusual in this trailer park] they are friendly with.

 

[mysteriew]

I will never stop being pizzzed at a mom who s out right neglect and IMO if your child is abused by 2 different men and finally she is cut into bits by a third some thing really wrong is going on within her household.As far the monster who cut this child into bits? I do not care to figure out what the heck went wrong with him to bring him to this point.He needs to be put to death as soon has possible,he is not human in my eyes.I do not care about his excuses.I am sick to death of so called parents:banghead: harming directly or indirectly CAUSE or ALLOW the death of their child:furious:maybe figuring them out might help us understand how in the hell to stop it from happening to other children.:furious:

It is easy to blame the parent when the child gets molested or raped. But the truth is, it only takes an instant. And I don't care how good a parent you are, at some point every parent has to take their eyes off a child.

When my gf molested me we were in his home. It happened in the bathroom. And my GM and both parents were in the living room. Even I don't blame my parents and don't believe they knew. And my Dad never knew, my Mom only found out a few years ago. Because I never told.

So it is possible that the child was molested and didn't tell until after she was molested the second time.

Maybe the parent should have never trusted them with their child. But at some points in your life you have to trust someone. And it could have been a very trusted person. After all child predators are some doctors, teachers, preachers, youth leaders, grandparents, brothers, sisters, nephews, etc. Maybe the parent never knew their tendencies, or maybe naively felt this person would never violate their trust by molesting their child.

Knowing those things I hesitate to blame the mother until more circumstances are known.

 

[mysteriew]

I would think without a criminal complaint the judge had his hands tied, as I've never heard of getting a protective order without a call to the police first. I believe the mother was told to go to the police or an attorney first -- which kinda makes sense and makes me wonder why she didn't do so (that I know of).

MOO

Mel

But the key is that he left it up to the mother to get LE involved. If he was a hospital worker, Dr. or teacher he could have been prosecuted for not reporting it to LE. Because they are mandated to report when they are aware that child abuse is happening. Yet the judge after hearing allegations that child abuse was happening didn't make a report and get things started.

Instead he told the mother to go to LE or an attorney (what was an attorney supposed to do for the child.)

If the judge had made a report MP might have been in jail.

 

[yllek]

We know that Aliahna is dead and dismembered and that Plumadore did it.

We know that Plumadore has a violent temper based on his past assault charges.
We don't know yet if he sexually assaulted Ali or her sisters. Based on his alleged stalking of a 13 year old last year and based on his association with RSOs, I think it's highly likely, but we don't know yet for sure. I hope the ME is able to make a determination.

We don't know if TS was conned by MP or if she and her husband were simply apathetic about leaving their girls with a violent felon for a week. Could it be even worse; could they have actually known that one or more of the girls would be abused and somehow benefitted from turning them over to Plumadore? Yep, it's possible. But, right now, we don't know if the girls ended up in the care of Plumadore, with not parental supervision whatsoever, because of ingorance, apathy, or mailicious intent. LE is investigating all of these possibilities, imo.

We don't know (at least I don't) that the family was living in poverty or whether TS or her husband were ever sexually abused as children. There are molesters (and rapists and killers) who keep it very separate from their own family life. It wouldn't surprise me at all if TS had been sexually abused as a child given Gramps RSO status and the company he kept, but we don't know that's the case yet. For me, if she was abused as a child, it is no excuse for not keeping her chidren close at hand (or at least checked-in on a few doors down) and protected after at least two previous incidents of sexual abuse against one of her children. But, at this point, we don't whether TS was a childhood abuse victim or not.

We don't know if Plumadore really bludgeoned Ali on the steps as he says, or if he killed her elsewhere. We don't know if Ali did something that set the psycho's violent temper into overdrive, or if he killed her to keep her from revealing crimes he was committing against her and/or her sisters, or if he just effin felt like it and enjoyed it. Whatever his motive, Plumadore is twisted, evil and robbed the world of an innocent. He is a deplorable human being. My opinion of Plumadore will not change if it is confirmed that he was poverty-stricken and/or he was abused as a child. These conditions won't excuse or mitigate doing what he did to Ali any more than these conditions would excuse or mitigate Ali's parents IF they had any knowledge that Plumadore would hurt their child(ren) in any way whatsoever when they handed the little girls over to Plumadore's control (whether they suspected he would kill one of them or not).

I hope we learn more about the circumstances leading to Ali's demise. But, even if we don't, I am confident that LE is looking at everything and will take appropriate action if anyone else committed crimes against Ali or her siblings (negligence, exploitation, etc).

Happy New Year all...

 

[Donjeta]

It is easy to blame the parent when the child gets molested or raped. But the truth is, it only takes an instant. And I don't care how good a parent you are, at some point every parent has to take their eyes off a child.

When my gf molested me we were in his home. It happened in the bathroom. And my GM and both parents were in the living room. Even I don't blame my parents and don't believe they knew. And my Dad never knew, my Mom only found out a few years ago. Because I never told.

So it is possible that the child was molested and didn't tell until after she was molested the second time.

Maybe the parent should have never trusted them with their child. But at some points in your life you have to trust someone. And it could have been a very trusted person. After all child predators are some doctors, teachers, preachers, youth leaders, grandparents, brothers, sisters, nephews, etc. Maybe the parent never knew their tendencies, or maybe naively felt this person would never violate their trust by molesting their child.

Knowing those things I hesitate to blame the mother until more circumstances are known.

JMO but there is a world of difference between letting your child out of your sight for a few minutes to go to the bathroom and letting your children live for days with a man hanging out with pedophiles in Pedo Park. There is a world of difference between trusting a doctor, a teacher or a minister and trusting a known associate of known child molesters.

Yes, we have to trust someone at some points of our lives but it does not follow that we should ever trust a transient felon who is known to have sexually harassed a 13 year old.