IN - Couple charged with abandonment of adopted child after legally changing her age, Sept 2019

[Laughing]

Because they're Christians who find it in their hearts to take in kids no one else wants. Husband is a pastor.

Despite not being able to obtain the guardianship, they still have her as part of their family. And no lawsuit has been filed by them.

and they paid an attorney to work this case in the young lady's behalf! The attorney who was horrified that a court acted on this US citizen -- with no representation!!!

 

[gitana1]

Age may not be a determining factor in this case. Off to do more investigating on her medical condition now.

Hmm. The code in Indiana defines a dependent as:

(1) an unemancipated person who is under eighteen (18) years of age; or
(2) a person of any age who has a mental or physical disability.

2011 Indiana Code :: TITLE 35. CRIMINAL LAW AND PROCEDURE :: ARTICLE 46. MISCELLANEOUS OFFENSES :: CHAPTER 1. OFFENSES AGAINST THE FAMILY

 

[gitana1]

Not defending anyone or playing devils advocate here and I'm not sure what I think of the photos or how much weight to give them based on my lack of knowledge of her condition. But I just want to share a story so people realize that stuff like what the barnetts allege does happen. I'm aware of a case in which a children's service agency had to take temporary custody of a girl found on the street that was stating she was 16. She claimed to not know her name or where she was from. She was also psychotic so that was a real possibility. Although she looked like she could pass for 16, there were suspicions that she could be an adult. CSB and the courts had to take her word. Eventually a dental exam was done. The Dr. believed she could be at least 19, but that was not definitive. The agency had to keep finding placements for her. Finally, During a psychiatric hospitalization, she began to slip up with the social worker and little clues were dropped as to where she could be from. Eventually, investigators tracked down family in a distant city. They identified her as a 24 year old woman.

Sometimes life is stranger than fiction. I'm keeping an open mind. Following.

Yes. That's happened a few times. With adults pretending to be older teens. Not adults pretending to be 8. Or having two separate doctors who analyzed her bone scans determine she was a child.

 

[Badwolf47]

@Badwolf47 , do you know anyone in Tippecanoe County?

(Sometimes know as LayFlat, Indiana.)

I know a few people there. Played sports there a few times.

 

[kaen]

BBM
I am not sure how the parents of a disable person over the age of 18 is responsible. I've many clients that are mentally/ physically disable...as deemed by SSA and receive benefits in their own name....SSAD. The parents have no legal responsibility or control of these persons. She was not declared incompetent and thus is responsible for herself.

She obtained SSAD, more than likely under her father/mother income, whichever is higher.
SSAD benefits are awarded to US citizens, who are over the age of 18 and meet the SSA disability guidelines. If under 18, must be low income to obtain SSI.

JMHO, if the adoption was overturned/declared illegal she would not be US citizen. She could NOT obtain SSAD, Medicaid, or Food Stamps. What a mess this would be.

Yes, the parents could have fought to overturn the adoption, however, this would have left her with no citizenship and no financial means.

My question is why would this other family seek guardianship and try to prove she is under 18? This would nullify all her benefits, SSAD, Medicaid, foods stamps, etc. She would be required to repay SSDA and Medicaid all funds disbursed. Where they planning to seek child support from the mother and father? Sue the parents for fraud?

Something just doesn't add up....

Imho....

Because if she is 21 or under and disabled she would be eligible for educational services through IDEA. If over 21 and has a disability, she is only eligible for vocational services. If she is found to have no cognitive or mental health condition, she qualifies for almost nothing. So she comes into adulthood with no high school education, GED or vocational skills. I would consider that a big deal.

If she was adopted from abroad after 2000, she is a citizen but if she came in on the IR4 her family had to complete the paperwork to obtain her CoC. Nothing will reverse that. If she does not have this paperwork in her US name, she will have a hard time if USICS ever gets involved or if she has any run-ins with the law but her citizenship can not be taken away.

We assume she qualifies for SSAD. Having dwarfism doesn't automatically qualify her for subsidies, she would have to prove that it inhibits her ability to work. If she does not have cognitive issues or dx'ed mental healthy issues that would qualify her for disability payments, she wouldn't be receiving any.

There are so many things wrong with this story. But, the largest in my book is that this young woman has not had access to educational services which can affect her ability to live independently.

The other family believes that she is under 18. Guardianship would allow them to make appropriate decisions on her behalf. If people are questioning if this family is trying to gain access to funds that she is entitled to, I would say that they are housing her, feeding her and loving her and should have access to the funds. If the question revolves around this family wanting her money for nefarious reasons, then, I think we should wait to hear what happens about restoring her age to the age prior to the legal proceedings. My guess is that the state will watch anyone who has access to any disability that she receives like a hawk.

 

[kaen]

RE: her citizenship. AFAIK, she would have received/earned/been awarded citizenship in the course of the initial adoption, the adoption that brought her to the US from Ukraine, right?

Disruption of this (shady) one shouldn't matter???

Absolutely correct. She is a citizen by virtue of coming to this country through adoption--as soon as she stepped on our soil. The only issue is if she has access to her CoC and it has been updated to her US name. There have been cases of US citizens with documentation who have been held by ICE based on paperwork "irregularity" so imagine what can happen to a young woman with any benefits in one name with a citizenship papers in another. There have been adult adoptees (adopted before the 2000 legislation) whose parents never applied for citizenship who have been deported. The US is a stickler for proper paperwork (rightfully so) so, this young woman needs to make sure she has her documents in order.

 

[Keine Engel]

Because they're Christians who find it in their hearts to take in kids no one else wants. Husband is a pastor.

Despite not being able to obtain the guardianship, they still have her as part of their family. And no lawsuit has been filed by them.

...But images posted to social media make clear they treat the diminutive female as a child, dressing her in colorful kids clothes and captioning a photo of Natalia and a young playmate: 'sweetest best friends ever.'

A family friend told DailyMail.com she considered the Mans to be 'Good Samaritans' who came across an abandoned child in need of help and welcomed her into their hearts.

'The Mans care for Natalia and she likes being there,' said the friend. 'There's nothing crazy going on or anything. These are good people.

'They just so happened to come across this person that was not being treated right and cared enough to put in the effort to make sure something was done about it. If it's true that her parents had abandoned her, it's horrible.

'I'm not a doctor or a psychiatrist but I've spoken with Natalia and I believe her. If you're asking me if I think she is 30, that's ridiculous.'

Daily Mail

 

[bears10]

Because they're Christians who find it in their hearts to take in kids no one else wants. Husband is a pastor.

Despite not being able to obtain the guardianship, they still have her as part of their family. And no lawsuit has been filed by them.

not all Christians who take in children are good people. I’m not saying this couple is or isn’t because I don’t know them from a hole in the wall, but I don’t think it’s safe to assume that because they are Christians and a pastor, that automatically they mean well.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Holy cow! When does rehoming become human trafficking? It seems like vulnerable kids are able to be passed around. In the Harris case they went through DHS and all the requirements only to hand kids off to a predator.

No one wants to recognize it as human trafficking, even when there is social security fraud, abuse, neglect, drugging, and lying to police involved. There is no legal recourse. Moo.

 

[gitana1]

not all Christians who take in children are good people. I’m not saying this couple is or isn’t because I don’t know them from a hole in the wall, but I don’t think it’s safe to assume that because they are Christians and a pastor, that automatically they mean well.

BBM.
I didn't. The question was asked what their motive is. That's my opinion. It's irrelevant that all Christians who take-in kids aren't good people.

These particular people aren't receiving a dime for her care. They fought to become her legal guardians so she could get an education, for two years. They paid for a lawyer.

Reports are that they are Christians and have acted as guardians for several kids. Looking at their social media it's clear this kid is part of their family circle and appears healthy and well groomed.

So that's my belief as to their motivation: They're Christians who find it in their hearts to care for unwanted kids. I don't assume that all Christians are good or that all who take in kids are good.

But I am assuming based on the evidence that their faith and desire to help kids is what motivated this particular couple.

 

[Scrapper18]

Hmm. The code in Indiana defines a dependent as:

(1) an unemancipated person who is under eighteen (18) years of age; or
(2) a person of any age who has a mental or physical disability.

2011 Indiana Code :: TITLE 35. CRIMINAL LAW AND PROCEDURE :: ARTICLE 46. MISCELLANEOUS OFFENSES :: CHAPTER 1. OFFENSES AGAINST THE FAMILY

With that code, their own defense of she had a mental illness that caused her to lie, etc, etc. could actually be detrimental to their defense. Interesting.

 

[cherrymeg]

No one wants to recognize it as human trafficking, even when there is social security fraud, abuse, neglect, drugging, and lying to police involved. There is no legal recourse. Moo.

These kids are able to be passed around to whoever without oversight. It seems like this should be illegal.

 

[kaen]

These kids are able to be passed around to whoever without oversight. It seems like this should be illegal.

It does. And, equally important, kids in these situations do not necessarily have the appropriate coping skills to be productive adults. I would add that kids who are not adopted who get passed around this way and are subject to abuse and broken bonds are also at great risk. Our children should be seen as our most precious resource but, sadly, they are not.

 

[cherrymeg]

It does. And, equally important, kids in these situations do not necessarily have the appropriate coping skills to be productive adults. I would add that kids who are not adopted who get passed around this way and are subject to abuse and broken bonds are also at great risk. Our children should be seen as our most precious resource but, sadly, they are not.

It's sad that these kids aren't getting support or an education that will help them function in the world and thrive. Some of the people that participate in rehoming seem like troubled adults that can't meet the needs of kids that have experienced trauma. When people say they are home schooling you still have to be registered somewhere, right? Or are some people really off the grid?

 

[kaen]

It's sad that these kids aren't getting support or an education that will help them function in the world and thrive. Some of the people that participate in rehoming seem like troubled adults that can't meet the needs of kids that have experienced trauma. When people say they are home schooling you still have to be registered somewhere, right? Or are some people really off the grid?

Whether you have to register or be accountable for your homeschooling curriculum is determined by the state you live in. I know a fair amount of homeschooling families who do a great job with their kids and programming. I also know people who have done unschooling-- no curriculum and follow the kid's interest. I work in a public system and have worked in a private school and have had my kids educated in these systems. I will say that I struggle most with unschooling because it takes a really curious child to take on the task of learning the myriad of things they might need for "the real world" as well as a parent who is creative and has the ability to find deep learning in every single thing the child wants to explore. I have seen homeschooling work well for families who have a particular belief system and want to teach their kids in that context. That said, there are a good number of people who homeschool because they want to keep their child and family out of the "prying" eyes of the state or believe that education outside of the home will taint their child's moral growth----AND these are the situations that scare me. There have been too many kids abused (emotionally, physically, sexually) in these kinds of arrangements because they are not on anyone's radar. The gamut is out there.

 

[cherrymeg]

Whether you have to register or be accountable for your homeschooling curriculum is determined by the state you live in. I know a fair amount of homeschooling families who do a great job with their kids and programming. I also know people who have done unschooling-- no curriculum and follow the kid's interest. I work in a public system and have worked in a private school and have had my kids educated in these systems. I will say that I struggle most with unschooling because it takes a really curious child to take on the task of learning the myriad of things they might need for "the real world" as well as a parent who is creative and has the ability to find deep learning in every single thing the child wants to explore. I have seen homeschooling work well for families who have a particular belief system and want to teach their kids in that context. That said, there are a good number of people who homeschool because they want to keep their child and family out of the "prying" eyes of the state or believe that education outside of the home will taint their child's moral growth----AND these are the situations that scare me. There have been too many kids abused (emotionally, physically, sexually) in these kinds of arrangements because they are not on anyone's radar. The gamut is out there.

I know some places require parents to put together a curriculum, show that their children are being educated and that they are following state laws. Kids that I knew who were homeschooled had meetups and field trips with other kids that were also being taught at home. It might have been called a co-op. The school district I think oversaw education plans and they also were required to provide support for children with a disabilities and special needs. This was in PA. If you are off the grid or you have a rehomed child how would anyone know they existed if you didn't want them to?That's scary.

 

[Tugela]

Good point. Ironically if they're her "parents" and she's a minor then they can authorize release of such info. Otherwise a court would have to authorize it and subpoena it. But a letter is more of a personal opinion. It's not a medical report or medical records. So it's strange. And seems very unofficial.

I'm guessing the guardianship court authorized release of her medical information. Otherwise I hope she sues the hell out of that doctor.

Unlikely. In order to sue she would have to admit that she was not a minor at the time. If she was a minor the parents could release the information, if she was not a minor then she would be guilty of fraud. In either case she would probably lose such a suit.

 

[Tugela]

Yeah. There's another photo from the same day or time as the first long hair photo. You can see her face age from child to adolescent to teen. I don't believe we would see such a dramatic progression if she was already an adult or older teen when she came to them.

She has the same condition as the little couple and they didn't look like little kids as adults. Just small.

The pictures look pretty much the same to me. If someone was a dwarf you would have trouble telling their age visually. And the way people appear in individual pictures can vary considerably depending on the light and their physical state at the time.

 

[lalalemon]

The thing that I keep going back to is this..... Surely if she was really only 11/12 years old when she was 'abandoned' she would have been scared and upset after about 24 hours and would have sought help so much sooner than she did?!

 

[meanmaryjean]

The thing that I keep going back to is this..... Surely if she was really only 11/12 years old when she was 'abandoned' she would have been scared and upset after about 24 hours and would have sought help so much sooner than she did?!

Would she have know HOW to do this? Being treated the way she likely was - maybe quite resilient and just determined to get on with life. MOO