IN - Couple charged with abandonment of adopted child after legally changing her age, Sept 2019

[gitana1]

If the prosecution hopes to get a conviction they better have some proof of actual intent & proof the Barnett’s actually believed she was a child at the time.

so far ...I’m not seeing any. They may simply have relied on incorrect conclusions drawn professionals who’s opinions were at odds with other professionals opinions. That’s not a crime.

In what other case, Linda, have you doubted the statement of an investigator who recounted an admission by the defendant?

It’s in the probable cause affidavit. There is zero to indicate this was a coerced confession. MB admitted to knowing the child was a child when they left her and that his wife told NB to lie about her age.

That’s proof.

Probable Cause Affidavit

 

[gitana1]

Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, I know very little of how one would "carbon-date" someone's maturity by psychology; BUT as someone who's been through a battery of psychiatric tests to rule out some stuff, I do remember clearly, at least part of what providers do in those tests (Minnesota Multiphasic, and other things I can't remember) is... to test your vocabulary, your sequential thinking capabilities, your general knowledge, and a lot of the same sorts of mental processing questions I remembered from being stuck in an IQ test in 8th (?) grade.

If a large portion of these determinations are just based in intelligence, how would you in fact prove that so-and-so was an "adult" vs. a biological "child"? I, for example, took the SAT's before I entered middle school as part of some sort of gifted-and-talented initiative, and I got at least 700 (I think at the time it was 800 max) on the verbal portion; and had a grade reading level of something like 11th grade. "Reading level" doesn't actually have a thing to do with "how old you are"; and it certainly seems as if the mother of a certified genius ought to know these things better than I do.

I in fact would be curious to hear from a mental health professional, as to what mental yardstick they would use to decide upon someone's "true age"; or even close to it.

What I’ve learned over the years of analyzing multiple psych evals in my cases is that the MMPII test results are interpreted based on more than just the test itself.

 

[gitana1]

I mean... they already got their answer from a pediatric endocrinologist that she was around 8. That's literally the most qualified doctor to make such an estimate and they disregarded it and continued to look for doctors who would agree she was older. They also failed to mention those 2010 and 2012 tests that showed she was a child in their petition to change her age. That's concealing evidence in my book. JMO but they were adopting the exact same tactics as Munchausen by proxy parents. Doctor shopping until they got an answer they liked.

Jinx!!

 

[gitana1]

Someone had to write the scripts for the medication she was on. I’m going to assume they were psychotropic.
Barnett’s also said she had a therapist IIRC?

We know they say she was placed in a psych ward. We know then that they say she had some form of treatment while with the Barnetts. No one has disputed that so it seems credible. We also know that an LSCW claimed to have diagnosed and/or seen her. She is listed in the age change petition and is on the criminal witness list so that seems credible.

Beyond that we don’t know what. We don’t know what histrionic and manipulative statements this super mom who according to her has accomplished the impossible with her own and multiple other children, under ever-increasing horrible conditions and during ever more terrible calamities, stated to mental health professionals that could have influenced how they viewed or assessed NB.

Mothers convince actual medical doctors to put in G-tubes, to conduct horrible surgeries, to diagnose their kids with things they don’t have, to prescribe potent meds and to even withhold food and water and cause a healthy kid to die. So why is it so hard to believe the Barnett’s may have influenced professionals in this case? They’re liars. We know that.

We don’t know what “care” N actually received after they placed her in an apartment. We do know that LE and the DA decided to charge them and prosecute.

Fact: Photos posted after the Mans got her show a kid with baby teeth missing that match with the age of 10-11 which is exactly how old she would’ve been at the time the photo was posted per her birth certificate.

Fact: Her face shape changed and she grew breasts after she left the Barnett’s.

 

[gitana1]

OK, I'll bite... why would one do such a thing? And how? I'm assuming this could be done if, as we suspected, the Barnetts postulated it as 100% intended for Natalia's own good and not anybody else's...?

I’ve posted earlier why I think they would do it. And the unsigned petition is posted above if you scroll back as well as my numbered recitation of all the facts they used in the petition.

Basically, I think NB showed signs of precocious puberty and it grossed out KB. She didn’t love this child. She found her repellant. They couldn’t handle whatever behaviors NB exhibited. Some of which may have come from a second rejection and the ridiculous overreaction to the possible appearance of her body. They wanted to move. They wanted out. They didn’t want her.

But to just give her up would make this hero mother look like a failure and a bad guy. So she had to make them out to the victims of an insane predator.

 

[Meloni88]

I don't understand why you would still give them benefit of the doubt. They have lied so much and said so many stupid things.

She's an adult because:
She has pubic hair [not an adult condition]
She had a period [not an adult condition]
She hides her period [childlike behavior and understandable given parents' previous behavior]
She had adult teeth [not an adult condition and also not even true per their own photographs]
She had a good vocabularly
She can "act differently in different situations" [?!]
She doesn't play with toys.
She was excited to meet them and showed no hesitation according to Michael. [Disinhibted attachment disorder]
She was nervous to meet them according to Kristine.
She acted like she couldn't walk when they met her until the beach trip according to Kristine.
She ran up to them to greet them at the adoption agency according to Michael
She tried to kill Kristine by poisoning [not a credible story I think we can all agree]
Pulling her over a deadly electric fence [just...lol]
Michael suddenly remembers on his third or fourth interview that she also tried to kill their sons by throwing their stuff in traffic.
And then there is just the whole premise of their story. This devious "woman" is so clever she can pull off an international adoption conspiracy scam but she can't dispose of her underwear successfully or pretend to be interested in toys.

This was so clearly a child trying to act grown up, not an adult trying to act like a child.

 

[gitana1]

Did the Barnett’s do that on their own or with an attorney?

With an attorney.

We discussed this earlier. As the adoptive parents of N it would be assumed that they were acting in her best interest. It would be unlikely to require representation of the child or adult in such a case. I wonder if she even received formal notice.

It’s bizarre. She didn’t participate.

 

[gitana1]

Yes ITA
Students at the adult center must be 18, and if 16+ only with parent-guardian approval. Of course NB was deemed by the court to be 22 years old, but IMO that would not give her the general knowledge and math/reading skills necessary to test for and complete adult school studies for a GED.

Also early reports that NB couldn't even get a GED because of the age change are false drama. Indiana has a large program exactly for this purpose of helping adults learn English as a second language, acquire their GED, and also acquire some job training.

Can you cite where NB completed the program and got her GED? I missed that.

 

[gitana1]

I don't understand why you would still give them benefit of the doubt. They have lied so much and said so many stupid things.

She's an adult because:
She has pubic hair [not an adult condition]
She had a period [not an adult condition]
She hides her period [childlike behavior and understandable given parents' previous behavior]
She had adult teeth [not an adult condition and also not even true per their own photographs]
She had a good vocabularly
She can "act differently in different situations" [?!]
She doesn't play with toys.
She was excited to meet them and showed no hesitation according to Michael. [Disinhibted attachment disorder]
She was nervous to meet them according to Kristine.
She acted like she couldn't walk when they met her until the beach trip according to Kristine.
She ran up to them to greet them at the adoption agency according to Michael
She tried to kill Kristine by poisoning [not a credible story I think we can all agree]
Pulling her over a deadly electric fence [just...lol]
Michael suddenly remembers on his third or fourth interview that she also tried to kill their sons by throwing their stuff in traffic.
And then there is just the whole premise of their story. This devious "woman" is so clever she can pull off an international adoption conspiracy scam but she can't dispose of her underwear successfully or pretend to be interested in toys.

This was so clearly a child trying to act grown up, not an adult trying to act like a child.

Bravo. That’s all.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes ITA
Students at the adult center must be 18, and if 16+ only with parent-guardian approval. Of course NB was deemed by the court to be 22 years old, but IMO that would not give her the general knowledge and math/reading skills necessary to test for and complete adult school studies for a GED.

Also early reports that NB couldn't even get a GED because of the age change are false drama. Indiana has a large program exactly for this purpose of helping adults learn English as a second language, acquire their GED, and also acquire some job training.

My understanding is that’s exactly what the Barnett’s set her up with...

 

[Linda7NJ]

No. More experts fooled by crafty narcissists. I know you’re aware of the multiple cases involving exactly that. Another mother was just indicated on murder charges after she put her “terminally ill” 7 year old on treatment withholding hospice care until she died.

Colorado mother accused of murdering daughter she said was terminally ill

People like this doctor shop until they get the answers they want. We’ve all seen how convincing KB is. We’ve also all seen that she has lied and changed her story multiple times.

The Barnett’s sought medical age determination assessments at least three times. They didn’t like the first two I guess.

Everything you’ve said is absolutely true.

However, there have also been cases where children are WRONGLY removed from the parents custody due to suspected Munchausen By Proxy.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Bravo. That’s all.

I give them the benefit of the doubt because I have yet to see proof they deliberately conspired to knowingly abandon a vulnerable disabled 11 year old child.

Like it or not, a jury will be instructed to do the same. PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE still matters at trial.

This isn’t going to be a case determined by a preponderance of evidence. It’s a criminal trial.

 

[Linda7NJ]

We know they say she was placed in a psych ward. We know then that they say she had some form of treatment while with the Barnetts. No one has disputed that so it seems credible. We also know that an LSCW claimed to have diagnosed and/or seen her. She is listed in the age change petition and is on the criminal witness list so that seems credible.

Beyond that we don’t know what. We don’t know what histrionic and manipulative statements this super mom who according to her has accomplished the impossible with her own and multiple other children, under ever-increasing horrible conditions and during ever more terrible calamities, stated to mental health professionals that could have influenced how they viewed or assessed NB.

Mothers convince actual medical doctors to put in G-tubes, to conduct horrible surgeries, to diagnose their kids with things they don’t have, to prescribe potent meds and to even withhold food and water and cause a healthy kid to die. So why is it so hard to believe the Barnett’s may have influenced professionals in this case? They’re liars. We know that.

We don’t know what “care” N actually received after they placed her in an apartment. We do know that LE and the DA decided to charge them and prosecute.

Fact: Photos posted after the Mans got her show a kid with baby teeth missing that match with the age of 10-11 which is exactly how old she would’ve been at the time the photo was posted per her birth certificate.

Fact: Her face shape changed and she grew breasts after she left the Barnett’s.

We do know plenty of situations that you describe where parents lead medical professionals to harm their own children.

We also know plenty of cases where a parents’ intuition, own research or simply a gut feeling & constant search for answers saved their children’s lives.

it cuts both ways.

 

[gitana1]

My understanding is that’s exactly what the Barnett’s set her up with...

Yes. That’s what they set her up with. It’s the LARA program. It helps them get their GED, learn English and life skills. It also enables them to undergo testing to determine what they need to work on and whether they’re ready for college.

There is no placement test necessary to enroll:

Our Services | Lafayette Adult Resource Academy

 

[gitana1]

We do know plenty of situations that you describe where parents lead medical professionals to harm their own children.

We also know plenty of cases where a parents’ intuition, own research or simply a gut feeling & constant search for answers saved their children’s lives.

it cuts both ways.

Wait. Do you believe this liar had parents’ intuition about the child she just met?

I mean you’ve seen how this woman exaggerates and lies and has nothing but a stream of ever more horrible calamities and tragedies that we are supposed to believe occurred to her. And that she accomplished super human achievements in the middle of all that. Typical of those who want attention.

And you believe she had intuition that this child she just met was a psychopathic adult fraud?

The excuses I’ve seen for the Barnett’s behavior and justifications for their narrative appear to me to be vague and never seem to account for how this all occurred and for the clear discrepancies (like the fact that she had baby tooth loss in photos after the Mans had her) and improbabilities of their narrative.

 

[Meloni88]

I give them the benefit of the doubt because I have yet to see proof they deliberately conspired to knowingly abandon a vulnerable disabled 11 year old child.

Like it or not, a jury will be instructed to do the same. PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE still matters at trial.

This isn’t going to be a case determined by a preponderance of evidence. It’s a criminal trial.

So they were wrong about her but there's no mens rea because they were truly, honestly convinced she was not a child from the beginning. So like shared paranoid delusions/persecution complex? Because for that to be true they would have to believe in a pretty extensive and elaborate conspiracy involving multiple individuals and agencies working together to enable a murderous psychopath for... reasons? And Dr Riggs was in on it too? And all the medical witnesses cited in the affidavit. And actually I could believe they are just that nutty except for the fact that they lie lie and lie some more. About big stuff and little stuff. About murder attempts, about teeth. If they were so sure of the truth of their claims they wouldnt need to lie and deceive and confuse us so much.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This case is off topic but fascinating considering the battle of the experts

I’d imagine it’s too hot of a case topic to actually discuss - my point is only without concrete proof it’s a battle of “experts” & divorcing parents.

An awful place for ANY kid to be stuck in the middle of.
For his/her well being - the child should be removed from both parents and allowed to be a child.
WATCH – James Younger at 3 Years: ‘Mommy Tells Me I’m a Girl’

 

[cherrymeg]

It is totally nonsensical. None of the Barnett apologists nor the Barnett’s themselves have explained or can explain the process of this adult psychopath creating fake records via adoption agencies or the Ukraine asserting she was a child when adopted.

Was she an adult in the Ukraine who wandered into an orphanage and pretended to be a child with fake papers? If so, how was this adult able to get rid of her accent so easily and not know Ukrainian just a couple years later?

Or was she actually an American or a Ukrainian who had been here for many years, living off people and somehow wandered into an American agency and claimed to have come here on a plane and to be five? Because when she was first adopted in the US she was just five per her paperwork. So almost 7 when the Barnett’s got her.

None of this The Orphan movie narrative makes sense. It’s fanciful. There’s no logic behind it.

I think the Barnetts' behaviors are driven by the desire to appear a certain way. KB writes about her genius son and charges for speaking engagements about her parental wisdom. An abandoned dwarf could have made them seem more saintly. Maybe N was uncomfortable being treated like prop. I don't think she fit into their life or the role they wanted her to play. When they went to Canada would Natalia have received SSI checks if they brought her with them? They didn't want to be financially responsible or responsible in anyway. Now they are covering their @sses.
If they admitted they adopted a child and realized they were in over their heads, and didn't know what to do that would be human, especially if they apologized. The Barnetts have brought up Natalia's most personal and private issues. They smear her name, they are repulsive.

 

[SandyQLS]

Can you cite where NB completed the program and got her GED? I missed that.

I never stated that. Don't put words in my mouth. I said that claims that NB was now unable to work on her GED are false drama because programs are widely available in Indiana. NB can work on that GED all she wants with her current legal age, and it's free.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I don't understand why you would still give them benefit of the doubt. They have lied so much and said so many stupid things.

She's an adult because:
She has pubic hair [not an adult condition]
She had a period [not an adult condition]
She hides her period [childlike behavior and understandable given parents' previous behavior]
She had adult teeth [not an adult condition and also not even true per their own photographs]
She had a good vocabularly
She can "act differently in different situations" [?!]
She doesn't play with toys.
She was excited to meet them and showed no hesitation according to Michael. [Disinhibted attachment disorder]
She was nervous to meet them according to Kristine.
She acted like she couldn't walk when they met her until the beach trip according to Kristine.
She ran up to them to greet them at the adoption agency according to Michael
She tried to kill Kristine by poisoning [not a credible story I think we can all agree]
Pulling her over a deadly electric fence [just...lol]
Michael suddenly remembers on his third or fourth interview that she also tried to kill their sons by throwing their stuff in traffic.
And then there is just the whole premise of their story. This devious "woman" is so clever she can pull off an international adoption conspiracy scam but she can't dispose of her underwear successfully or pretend to be interested in toys.

This was so clearly a child trying to act grown up, not an adult trying to act like a child.

Don't forget the new appearance in the narrative of the clear thumbtacks placed upon the steps.

I think that KB went into the entire situation seeing and thinking of Natalia as "Other", and thus her prejudices ("this is Different in a way I don't understand; and thus clearly wrong and attributable to the fact that orphans from the Ukraine/dwarves/physically challenged people are Weird"), led her to put the worst possible interpretation on any set of facts. I think she thought she wouldn't be, for lack of a better word, repelled by Natalia's particular challenges; only to find that KB in fact was. Not to sound like a broken record but again, the veriest tiny scrap of research into the female reproductive cycle, dentition, and acquisition of language skills, at minimum, would have knocked out half of what the Barnetts want us to see as their "evidence" and "proof"; and we know she's not averse to mass amounts of research, so it stinks like week old fish to me.